From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Hell Swarm]

Yes they are. Not hitting a trigger button by accident is not a challenge, it's a quality of life improvement. There are literally no downsides to the proposed system of NPCs untouchable by default, but killable if you deliberately use an item. No downsides whatsoever.

Adding an NPC killing item is immersion breaking and retarded. Do you need someone to hold your hand so you don't randomly punch people you meet in the street? You're game journo tier. The best bit of From games was that they didn't baby you. They expected you to make decisions and face consequences. If you're so retarded you can't resist pushing the wrong button you deserve what you get.

 

[Skinwalker]

Adding an NPC killing item is immersion breaking and retarded.

Not at all. It's pointless to talk about "immersion breaking" items in a game where the normal mode of playing is with constant messages from other players all over the floor, and a whole bunch of invasion items.

Like I said, it's a quality of life improvement. It makes the game better.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Adding an NPC killing item is immersion breaking and retarded.

Not at all. It's pointless to talk about "immersion breaking" items in a game where the normal mode of playing is with constant messages from other players all over the floor, and a whole bunch of invasion items.

Like I said, it's a quality of life improvement. It makes the game better.

Running off to shoutbox because you got called out for being a game journo scrub. lol

 

[Skinwalker]

Whose alt are you, again?

 

[Old Hans]

BTW, this thing popped up this mornig and i thought it was pretty interesting. World class Warcraft III player tries an action game for the first time in his life from the looks of it:



Fascinating to watch someone who is so good at one thing fumble miserably doing another. Wonder if he'll keep doing this. Would be interesting to see if he grows in ability. Elden Ring was probably the worst one he could have picked though.

"disabled homeless veteran suffering from stage 2 cancer plays Elden Ring for the first time"

 

[Lyric Suite]

Isn't it something?

What that guy can do in Warcraft III is unreal but give him a genre he never tried and fumbles around like a disabled person. I think i did better when i tried DS1 the first time and i was a true scrub then.

That said, i never hit an NPC. I played enough games to know not to do that even if i was sure the consequences weren't going to be permanent. Only once i accidentally hit Andre but i knew better than to kill him. I was pretty horrified when after resting he was still hostile but i figured there had to be a way out.

 

[smaug]

Replaying this game because me and my friend are playing co-op. Forgot how terrible this game was.

Open world is just useless filler where just looking at a map and just doing everything by a check off list is more reasonable than trying to explore blindly (not applicable to the actual levels). So many useless mechanics etc etc

I guess I can’t blame them because the souls gameplay formula was already exhausted in the first entry but this Ubisoft world design is so lazy.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I guess I can’t blame them because the souls gameplay formula was already exhausted in the first entry but this Ubisoft world design is so lazy.

Sekiro has Activision world design. What big dev will they copy next?

 

[Skinwalker]

- plays with a walkthrough

- "Why is this game so boring?"

t. smewg

 

[smaug]

- plays with a walkthrough

- "Why is this game so boring?"

t. smewg

Replaying this game

 

[Hell Swarm]

- plays with a walkthrough

- "Why is this game so boring?"

t. smewg

Replaying this game

I wouldn't bother Smaug. He thinks Elden ring needs to severely limit the players freedom to protect them from themselves. He defintely used a wiki to find flask upgrades and has to shit on people to defend his own ego.

 

[smaug]

- plays with a walkthrough

- "Why is this game so boring?"

t. smewg

Replaying this game

I wouldn't bother Smaug. He thinks Elden ring needs to severely limit the players freedom to protect them from themselves. He defintely used a wiki to find flask upgrades and has to shit on people to defend his own ego.

are you illiterate? serious question

 

[Skinwalker]

Hurting butts without even trying. Still got it.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Designing your game around iframes carrying a player through attacks is lazy and shouldn't have become an industry standard. If you can't design attacks a player can physically dodge and not get hurt then you shouldn't be making an action game.

 

[Cheesedragon117]

A successful dodge is often a combination of i-framing and physically outspacing an attack. See: Monster Hunter: World boss design where i-framing an attack doesn't "consume" the attack's hitbox, and thus one or the other evasion style is emphasized depending on the type of monster. There are also some attacks (sweeping breath, tail sweeps) that are difficult or impossible to design a satisfying way to outspace them, but without them, the monster's moveset would feel like it's missing something.

I've never understood this "muh realism!" argument against i-frames in the character action genre. Even if you roll primarily to outspace attacks, i-frames still serve a purpose as a cushion to prevent your toes from getting clipped by attacks you really feel like you should've dodged.

 

[Hell Swarm]

There are also some attacks (sweeping breath, tail sweeps) that are difficult or impossible to design a satisfying way to outspace them, but without them, the monster's moveset would feel like it's missing something.

How many animals use their tails as weapons and how much of it is lazy design copying things?

I've never understood this "muh realism!" argument against i-frames in the character action genre. Even if you roll primarily to outspace attacks, i-frames still serve a purpose as a cushion to prevent your toes from getting clipped by attacks you really feel like you should've dodged.

Wasn't making a muh realism argument. iframes are a crutch video gamey mechanic. Imagine any other medium using iframes and you see how incredibly silly they seem.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I've never understood this "muh realism!" argument against i-frames in the character action genre. Even if you roll primarily to outspace attacks, i-frames still serve a purpose as a cushion to prevent your toes from getting clipped by attacks you really feel like you should've dodged.

Wasn't making a muh realism argument. iframes are a crutch video gamey mechanic. Imagine any other medium using iframes and you see how incredibly silly they seem.

Yeah, every time I read a novel that uses iframes, I roll my eyes and snort.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Yeah, every time I read a novel that uses iframes, I roll my eyes and snort.

That's the point? "And then Eric the viking rolled through the amazon queen's sword!" is such a dumb idea.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I've never understood this "muh realism!" argument against i-frames in the character action genre. Even if you roll primarily to outspace attacks, i-frames still serve a purpose as a cushion to prevent your toes from getting clipped by attacks you really feel like you should've dodged.

Wasn't making a muh realism argument. iframes are a crutch video gamey mechanic. Imagine any other medium using iframes and you see how incredibly silly they seem.

Yeah, every time I read a novel that uses iframes, I roll my eyes and snort.

I suspect TV uses iframes damn near often though.

 

[Cheesedragon117]

Honestly, with the kinds of crazy battles Conan the Barbarian survived, that dude was probably i-framing stuff left and right, the book(s) just didn't call it that.


Hmmm, speaking of Conan, anyone else notice Godfrey getting crucified on a tree in the intro, in what seems to be a direct reference to "A Witch Shall Be Born"? I haven't seen anyone else point it out.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The reason they need i-frames is so they can actually have a pattern.

Games without i-frames generally seem to be more arcadish in nature. I assume it's the usual suspects of cretins with low visual/spatial IQs who can't discern patterns who are complaining about this, thinking it makes them sophisticated without realizing how much they'd have to simplifly how enemies move to make you able to avoid an attack without i-frames.

FromSoft seems to have hit on something very unique purely because they were forced to work with hitboxes and spacing when they made King's Field originally. It led to a kind of gameplay that seems to be unique to them. I've checked some videos of Monster Hunter for instance and it's a completely different ordeal. I've also been playing Nioh recently, playing it like Souls just out of pure instinct and doing it that way the game is actually more simplistic than Souls. You have less i-frames when dodging attacks but boss patterns are simpler and less sophisticated. I guess the "complexity" lies on the player side, in doing all sorts of combos, fluxing between stances etc, something i haven't tried to do all that much since i'm not used to that kinda of stuff and never did it before.

Notice that over time i-frames have become less and less of a reliable crutch, but that seems to have made people even more angry here. The fact you now have bosses with patterns that cannot actually be easily i-framed all the way through, the introduction of hyperarmor and the need to learn to work around that, the fact you have to mix up parry, jumping, the fact you need to rely on stance breaking to make bosses stop moving so much just made things worst for some people.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Honestly, with the kinds of crazy battles Conan the Barbarian survived, that dude was probably i-framing stuff left and right, the book(s) just didn't call it that.

Nope. Man survived because he invested multiple times on Toughness, so he had enough enough HP to power an engine.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Notice that over time i-frames have become less and less of a reliable crutch, but that seems to have made people even more angry here. The fact you now have bosses with patterns that cannot actually be easily i-framed all the way through, the introduction of hyperarmor and the need to learn to work around that, the fact you have to mix up parry, jumping, the fact you need to rely on stance breaking to make bosses stop moving so much just made things worst for some people.

This isn't true in Elden ring at all. Many attacks are reliant on iframes to dodge and the best tactic is commonly to roll into an enemies attack and let your iframes carry you through it. They specifically designed a lot of attacks to catch you if you roll away from them or try to space yourself properly. Having to jump 1, maybe 2 of a bosses attack doesn't stop rolling through the enemies physical weapon being the best option. Dark souls 2 is the only game that even attempted to nerf it by requiring a stat to be leveled and everyone leveled it and resumed being Limp Bizki.t

 

[Odoryuk]

People who complain about camera, controls, bad hitboxes and iframes in most cases just rationalise their inability/unwillingness how to play FromSoft games properly.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Notice that over time i-frames have become less and less of a reliable crutch, but that seems to have made people even more angry here. The fact you now have bosses with patterns that cannot actually be easily i-framed all the way through, the introduction of hyperarmor and the need to learn to work around that, the fact you have to mix up parry, jumping, the fact you need to rely on stance breaking to make bosses stop moving so much just made things worst for some people.

This isn't true in Elden ring at all. Many attacks are reliant on iframes to dodge and the best tactic is commonly to roll into an enemies attack and let your iframes carry you through it.

Doing that blind is a guaranteed way to smash your face against the damaging part of the attack though.

Rolling in Elden Ring now requires timing exactly like parry. That's why so many people are angry about this game. Whatever it was that made parry so hard for people in past Souls games now applies to rolling as well.

This is what i meant when i said i-frames are no longer as much of a crutch as they used to. It's no longer the guaranteed easy way to deal with boss patterns.

As for spacing and positioning, that also matters more than it used to be as well, but it's more of a question of knowing your way around a pattern.

If you are sking for muh realism, you are not gonna get in a game like this.