From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lyre Mors]

Dark Souls 2 is ahead of the rest because it managed to expand on the formula while simultaniously having it's own identity. It's the most complex game in the franchise (I don't give a single flying fuck what anyone has to say about that. IT'S FACT) and it managed to carve it's very own identity. From Demon's Souls to DkS2, each game had it's own unique atmosphere, and then we got Bloodborne which did it's own great thing. I don't think the order matters much. As long as you have Elden Ring, Sekiro, and DkS3 on the ass-end, you're good.

Elden Ring is Dark Souls II-2 though. Part of why I love it so much.

Also, Sekiro is enough its own thing it shouldn't really even be included. And it certainly shouldn't be nestled up with Dark Souls III. I do agree DSIII should be last on the list though.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Comparing FS with the likes of Bethesda should be considered treason btw. You go straight to hell for that.

 

[Machocruz]

So you were happy that Muhzaki ignored all the good ideas from your beloved DS2 while at the same time getting more praise for 3 from all the normies? Sounds like Bethesda-esque shit to me.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

People acting like I called Dark Souls 1 a piece of shit. You didn't notice how I used the greater than sign. I was basically saying the first 4 were all very close in quality. DkS1 ends up 4th because of the decline in quality in the later half which I already went over. 4th place is extremely generous.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Also, Sekiro is enough its own thing it shouldn't really even be included.

This is a fair point. I probably shouldn't have bothered throwing it in there.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Having played Bloodborne to completion for the first time a couple months ago, I'd definitely place Elden Ring above it, as a personal preference. I'm someone who values build variety and plentiful options above action gameplay though, so that's a big reason why. Also found the exploration in Elden Ring to be way more satisfying all around. Still a wonderful game though.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I'm with the people who say the open world format drags it down quite a bit. There's a lot of fat in Elden Ring that needs trimmed. I think it would have benefited from being more streamlined like the previous games. The big open world has a negative effect on the experience.

I hate to sound like a broken jukebox but check out Dragon's Dogma 2 if you want a real open world ARPG. Elden Ring doesn't match up at all.

 

[Lyre Mors]

I started Dragon's Dogma 2 the same day you did, finished it quite awhile ago now, and loved it on a lot of levels. I'm still processing exactly how I feel about it - especially in relation to Elden Ring as a direct comparison - and I feel...mixed. I'd hesitate to say one is particularly better than the other, because a lot of the weaknesses DD2 has, are the strengths in Elden Ring, and vice-versa. I don't want to derail this thread by bringing DD2 into it though, so I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I started Dragon's Dogma 2 the same day you did, finished it quite awhile ago now, and loved it on a lot of levels. I'm still processing exactly how I feel about it - especially in relation to Elden Ring as a direct comparison - and I feel...mixed. I'd hesitate to say one is particularly better than the other, because a lot of the weaknesses DD2 has, are the strengths in Elden Ring, and vice-versa. I don't want to derail this thread by bringing DD2 into it though, so I'll leave it at that for now.

The only person who still deeply cares about discussing Elden Ring is Lyric Suite, bless his soul.

DD2 launched in a much more broken state and still managed to be far more engrossing than Elden Ring. The world actually reacts to you in DD2 and it's a more interesting place to explore imo. The world in Elden Ring is completely stagnent. It doesn't exactly feel like a living place. Both games have strengths and weaknesses but there is no doubt DD2 will be far superior once it's "complete". It was built for open world shit. Elden Ring not so much. We'll see how the expansion turns out.

 

[Lyre Mors]

DD2 launched in a much more broken state and still managed to be far more engrossing than Elden Ring.

And that's where we have to agree to disagree. I played Elden Ring for 150 hours my first playthrough and was sad to see it go, but ultimately ready to be done with it, as I am with most longer games. I finished Dragon's Dogma 2 at 65 hours, leaving probably about 25% of the world unexplored due to just not having the will to play it in its current state anymore. The amount of potential that was wasted by poor core gameplay design decisions was disappointing, with the adaptive difficulty being the chief offender.

While Elden Ring might have ultimately "failed" at its open-world aspect (which I found enjoyable enough that it never felt grating), everything else about it was enough to keep me engaged and not rushing towards the end. I had to wrap DD2 up earlier than I thought I ever would because the game was giving me nothing new, challenging, or engaging to keep pushing me forward, despite it having the kind of open-world design I wish would have been in Elden Ring. Despite DD2 having that open-world I loved, Elden Ring had more moments of truly engrossing and fascinating exploration, with more meaningful challenges and rewards to boot. DD2 has more reactive and overall interesting combat mechanics, but when there's very little impetus to employ those mechanics through lack of challenge, they lose their charm quicker than they should. And I'm not even saying I was expecting or necessarily even wanted DD2 to be a brutally difficult experience. But I didn't want to have to feel like I was already becoming insanely overpowered in the first 15-20 hours of the game, thus robbing any joy I would get from any form of progression, whether it be character or equipment. I love DD2's combat, but it's not enough to carry an action RPG for me.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The world in Elden Ring is completely stagnent. It doesn't exactly feel like a living place.

That's because Dark Souls was never meant to be a LARPing simulator and Elden Ring is still basically Dark Souls, open world or not.

That's why i keep saying Elden Ring is a glorified arcade game. The game was not designed for you to go "aaaahhh, this is a real place, i wished i lived here". LARPing is overrated anyway and it has become a blight on gaming to begin with. Just look at the success of Bethesda games. The ONLY reason normies flock so much to their slop is because of muh LARPing. The games are as shitty as they come but muh open world trumps everything.

In a way, i'm enjoying how Elden Ring shattered all the normie expectations. All the open areas exist purely for the combat and maybe to find loot and shit, same as the dungeons. You can go around for five minutes picking up daisies pretending this is Morrowind but it doesn't last long. You are not here for LARPing. In fact, fuck LARPing. Can't wait until that shit goes out of fashion. It's not like anybody even knows how to do it properly anyway.

 

[Lyric Suite]

So you were happy that Muhzaki ignored all the good ideas from your beloved DS2 while at the same time getting more praise for 3 from all the normies? Sounds like Bethesda-esque shit to me.

Dark Souls 3 had higher production standards.

There's much to love about Dark Souls 2 but you can't expect normies to respond well to the jank. You can deny it all you want, but Dark Souls 2 had a lot of amateurish elements.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I don't LARP. I just enjoy immersion, something that makes me forget life shit and DD2 does it better with a more sophisticated combat system. There's a reason I always praise Dark Souls 2 above all others. It had the best and most complex combat system. FS never came close again. This is dumb, I give up. People will never appreciate it.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It seems i have a different conception of "complexity" than most. I noticed this question come up a lot of time.

It seems there's some people who think complexity means lot's of options.

In my case it's how clever the design is, particularly in how enemies move and attack if we are talking about FromSoft games specifically. That's why despite everything i can't help but love Elden Ring. The design of the enemies is clever in a way that's hard to appreciate unless you are into this sort of thing. I can't think of a lot of gaming companies that can do what FromSoft does in this respect.

Whenever i made those comparisons to classical music i wasn't just trying to be pretentious. There's actually a real, objective similarity because "complexity" in music has little to do with anything that can actually be described either in words or through theory. It's not something that can be demonstrated or explained to someone who isn't actually trained to pick it up on their own.

FromSoft enemy design is clever in the same way writing can be clever, which again is not something that can really be "shown" unless you have eyes to see (using "big" words for instance doesn't make writing clever. It's not quantifiable like that). That's why i think open world was a mistake. Because i can only imagine how time consuming it is to design enemies in a FromSoft game compared to some others, and given that development time is a finite resource, it was inevitable that at some point the level designers were going to outpace the people designing the enemies.

 

[Lyric Suite]

BTW, imagine clamoring FromSoft games lack complexity while in the same breath argue this is a negative:

Spoiler

Looking at that makes me salivate at the prospect of trying a pure roll-fu approach that doesn't cheese him through stance breaking.

 

[Odoryuk]

New concept art from the DLC, never shown before

 

[Val Doom]

New concept art from the DLC, never shown before

Spoiler

Godwyn with omen horns?

 

[Odoryuk]

New concept art from the DLC, never shown before

Spoiler

Godwyn with omen horns?

Spoiler

Miyazaki stated that the DLC takes place at the same time as the base game, and Godwyn is in ER's world, so I doubt it's him, but the resemblance is very close (sans his beautiful blonde hair, though).

 

[Lyric Suite]

Just wait for the five hours lore video explaing that pic.

 

[Child of Malkav]

New concept art from the DLC, never shown before

Unfathomable power my ass. Nothing Mohg's trident ash of war triple bleed can't handle. Probably gonna kill that thing before it finished its speech like Gideon.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Anybody else seeing what i'm seeing?

 

[Child of Malkav]

Not really.

 

[Lyric Suite]

BTW, i checked Shitter today and my feed is getting flooded by channels i'm not subscribed to about some nigger streamer who apparently made the earth shattering achievement of completing Elden Ring in a stream. Not doing a no death run or anything like that. Just finishing the game lmao.

 

[Stoned Ape]

BTW, i checked Shitter today and my feed is getting flooded by channels i'm not subscribed to about some nigger streamer who apparently made the earth shattering achievement of completing Elden Ring in a stream. Not doing a no death run or anything like that. Just finishing the game lmao.

Your mistake was in checking Shitter; a terrifying place fuelled by a malign force that invites the great old ones to pollute your unconscious mind and drag you into endless insanity.

 

[Machocruz]

Dark Souls 3 had higher production standards.

There's much to love about Dark Souls 2 but you can't expect normies to respond well to the jank. You can deny it all you want, but Dark Souls 2 had a lot of amateurish elements.

I don't and never have denied it. I thought the animation and movement in DS2 were particularly mediocre and unpleasant. Lighting and texture work were flat and ugly much of the time. I thought most bosses were weak. It felt like a budget take on the first game in some ways. Of course normies prefer the slicker game despite it doing away with things the previous more "dated" game did, we've seen this over and over again since the Xbox360 days at least, most notably with one developer whose name I won't mention here anymore. That's not me saying that DS3 is bad or FS are part of The Decline like them though.