From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Silverfish]

You are projecting some defficiency on the game again just because their previous game didn't need a map. Even the games you compared the open world to have maps.

Yes, but those other games aren't sequels to Demon's Souls.

Taking notes doesn't make a game.

Unless the game you're taking notes from is Skyrim.

Like your desperate grasping at straws about ER being dumbed down. You added map and compass (and ooc stamina and number of attributes and spirit ashes and mimic using health) there just to pad the list then doubled down and went to gaslight mode when being called on it. All while starting the argument 100% in bad faith since the games you compare with are overall considerably less complex.

"Grasping at straws, pad the list, gaslight mode, bad faith." Bro, I would really appreciate it if you just said "I like the game. Fuck you, you stupid motherfucker." rather than use a bunch of accusatory buzzwords you heard in a Sargon or Destiny debate video that don't even refute my points anyway.

I'm convinced they're messaging each other trying to find ways to character assassinate.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that isn't the case. If this is the result of a coordinated effort, Good Lord.

Could you not use nigger fisting community terms please?

Hey, that's not fair. The FGC also has like three Chinese guys and one Italian.

When I call you a consoletard that argues like a shitlib I do not imply you own a console or are a liberal.

"You argue in bad faith. Incidentally, I don't mean the things I say."

 

[Ghost Goat]

I just finished a "No Summons"-lite run of the base game and the DLC. I say "lite" because I made a couple exceptions for the DLC.

Welp. I'm going to jump on the side of those here who are calling bullshit on the DLC. I guess it's *possible" to commit to a build and make it work for the duration of the Land of Shadow, but hell if I could manage it.

I ran STR/FAI with a Banished Knight Greatsword/Blasphemous Blade until I gave up and went 100% Unga Bunga with the Giant Smasher. More on that later.

Impressions: the amount of roll catching is really too much. Some of the hit-boxes are complete bullshit (Radahn). The number of 20 hit combos some of these guys use ensures I'll never visit the Land of Shadow again. Also, I probably just suck.

Anyway, here's my after-game breakdown:

Dancing Lion --- hard, but once you get his moves down he's manageable. Good boss.
Knight in Gaol --- stun-locked with Giant Hunt. This worked for almost all of the bosses using the NPC model, and Death Knights.
Magic Demi-Human Guy --- went in there buffed up to all hell and burned him down with Taker's Flame. He got me a couple times, tho.
Golden Hippopotamus --- okay. these guys are manageable with decent positioning and some range. I spammed Taker's Flame and dodged. The big one got me a couple times.
Rellanna --- hard. but like Dancing Lion she's manageable once you learn her moves.

Furnace Golems suck and are un-fun. I killed the first one for the shield tear and ignored the rest.

Ghost-flame Dragons. I actually enjoyed fighting these. The dragons overall were fine. I never beat Bayle.

Metyr --- never beat her.
Midra --- OMG. This is where I started to be tempted to summon the Mimic Tear. I had to watch a couple YouTubes to figure him out. He went down without assistance but it was close.
Putrescent --- I had to get a great shield out for him. That's another thing: I'm sure I suck but there are quite a few nearly unavoidable attacks this time around that I simply had to figure out how to tank.
Messmer --- Fuck this guy. He flies across the arena as soon as you walk through the fog gate and has 3/4 different ways to be a wanna-be Malenia. Phase 2 is even worse with the camera flying all over the place.

This is where I gave up. I upgraded the Giant Smasher, respeced to full STR, summoned the Mimic and went to town on this nerd. You know what's better than 2 stun-locking, poise breaking, giant hammer wielding cavemen? Two of them.

I didn't summon for Gaius or that Giant Sunflower. I think I only ever summoned Mimic again at the final boss. But, I don't regret it, not for one damn second.

I put Prayerful Strike on the Hammer and tried to trade with him. Nope. Well, Mimic somehow could. I know it's cheesy as hell but I giggled like the Lord of Frenzy Flame himself while watching Mimic solo him across the arena with the HP regenerating Ash on his hammer. I really wanted this to be a fair fight but I lost my patience with From's bullshit during this fight. I noticed all the same problems everyone else has described: screen garbage all over the place, input reading, enlarged hit-boxes, FPS drops from Miquella's holy attack, etc. etc. So, I figured out how to survive his first couple 20 hit combos, ran the fuck away and summoned Mimic armed with the powered up HP regeneration hammer. I still had to dodge him if Mimic lost aggro, but Mimic miraculously survived all of his bullshit better than I ever could. It took a couple tries, but this got me through.

So, I persevered until the end with it, and I enjoyed the feeling of *almost* winning without summoning, but I'm not sure I enjoyed it overall. The silver lining here is that I went back to the base game and curb stomped Maliketh, Godfrey and Radagon/Elden Beast easily. So, not a total loss.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Furnace Golems suck and are un-fun. I killed the first one for the shield tear and ignored the rest.

You should kill the one in Unte at least (you get a Power Within cracked tear it's kinda worth it). In fact, you can kill them all really quickly if you just use Pest Threads on their legs at point blank range. They get staggered super fast that way.

Meanwhile, the ones with armored legs can be killed very fast as well. Just bait their arm swipes and dunk pots into their head. Don't even need Furnace Hefty Pots the other ones work too.

 

[abija]

"You argue in bad faith. Incidentally, I don't mean the things I say."

Usually I mean 100% the things I say (except when I think it's 100% obvious sarcasm, not the case here), you just seem to fail at reading. Somehow it happens selectively when it helps your arguments which makes me believe is bad faith, precisely like in the quote above.

Yes, but those other games aren't sequels to Demon's Souls.

So what? They added a big change with the open world and they thought a map would be helpful.

"Grasping at straws, pad the list, gaslight mode, bad faith." Bro, I would really appreciate it if you just said "I like the game. Fuck you, you stupid motherfucker." rather than use a bunch of accusatory buzzwords you heard in a Sargon or Destiny debate video that don't even refute my points anyway.

Why don't you say you don't like the game instead of grasping at straws with arguments like "ER sucks because in the transition to an open world (which incidentaly made the game several times bigger) they added a map".
Why did you add compass to that list if not for padding? Do you know of many map systems that don't provide a tool for orientation?

You argue like Destiny and expect others to not point it out. Do you want me to invent new terms for the bullshit "techniques" you use?

 

[Hell Swarm]

Usually I mean 100% the things I say (except when I think it's 100% obvious sarcasm, not the case here), you just seem to fail at reading. Except it happens selectively when it helps your arguments which makes me believe is bad faith, precisely like in the quote above.

I mean what I mean except when I don't mean what I mean. Which is the definition of bad faith arguing. And you keep trying to turn things political with "me good, you bad" and gaslight others that finding massive flaws in something means you can't enjoy it any way. It would be really nice if you could be quiet and go back to internet bloodsports or where ever you manchildren hang out now.


This ones for you bro.

 

[abija]

Just because you keep repeating the same lie doesn't make it true. If you interpret the words otherwise than the actual meaning, it's you who argues in bad faith as you did all over this thread.
There's a reason you keep misquoting and misrepresenting what I said or why you wet your pants when you even think someone looked at your post history.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Would any one like to discuss Elden ring instead of this gas lighting twat crying how everyone's a liberal except him, the master debaiter.

 

[Ghost Goat]

Furnace Golems suck and are un-fun. I killed the first one for the shield tear and ignored the rest.

You should kill the one in Unte at least (you get a Power Within cracked tear it's kinda worth it). In fact, you can kill them all really quickly if you just use Pest Threads on their legs at point blank range. They get staggered super fast that way.

Meanwhile, the ones with armored legs can be killed very fast as well. Just bait their arm swipes and dunk pots into their head. Don't even need Furnace Hefty Pots the other ones work too.

Pest Threads on the legs? That's brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? I used that trick on Placidusax, but never thought to try it on Elden Ring's version of AT-ATs.

 

[Silverfish]

Usually I mean 100% the things I say (except when I think it's 100% obvious sarcasm, not the case here), you just seem to fail at reading. Somehow it happens selectively when it helps your arguments which makes me believe is bad faith, precisely like in the quote above.

It's not bad faith, I'm earnestly making fun of you.

Why don't you say you don't like the game instead of grasping at straws with arguments like "ER sucks because in the transition to an open world (which incidentaly made the game several times bigger) they added a map".

Because I didn't say say that ER is bad because of a map. I said that the game dumbs down the Souls formula and that the map is one aspect of that process.

Why did you add compass to that list if not for padding?

Because I didn't care for it as an addition. How are you not getting this?

Do you want me to invent new terms for the bullshit "techniques" you use?

I would love that.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Just because you keep repeating the same lie doesn't make it true. If you interpret the words otherwise than the actual meaning, it's you who argues in bad faith as you did all over this thread.
There's a reason you keep misquoting and misrepresenting what I said or why you wet your pants when you even think someone looked at your post history.

And gradually, he begun to hate them.

And so did i.

I wonder if people who are this way are just trained to do it and are doing it consciously or if it's just something that comes naturally if you are a relativist or have an innate nominalism mindset.

 

[Hell Swarm]

So no one wants to discuss the barren goyslop of Elden ring then? Oh well, I'm just gaslighting you any way. I haven't even played a From game lol.

 

[abija]

It's not bad faith, I'm earnestly making fun of you.

Right, you're not lying you're just beeing cheeky. I think it's time for one of your "I'm so detached and cool" memes.

Because I didn't say say that ER is bad because of a map. I said that the game dumbs down the Souls formula and that the map is one aspect of that process.

They added something on top of the formula and thought that addition could use more tools. That doesn't mean the game is dumbed down. Especially since the maps are mostly useless in navigating dungeons. The whole point was for people to choose something that looked interesting to them, go there and explore.

Nevermind the flex they did and the feeling most people got the first times the map zoomed out.

Why did you add compass to that list if not for padding?

So suddenly your feelings are facts and a game adding something you don't like means it's being dumbed down?

So no one wants to discuss the barren goyslop of Elden ring then? Oh well, I'm just gaslighting you any way. I haven't even played a From game lol.

My blind playthrough clocked close to 250 hours so the game world had plenty to offer. But I was exploring and appreciating the world not jonesing for the next dopamine hit.

 

[Hell Swarm]

They added something on top of the formula and thought that addition could use more tools. That doesn't mean the game is dumbed down. Especially since the maps are mostly useless in navigating dungeons. The whole point was for people to choose something that looked interesting to them, go there and explore.

You need a map for a skyrim dungeon? Most of them are straight lines clearly sign posted.

Nevermind the flex they did and the feeling most people got the first times the map zoomed out.

"Oh fuck, there's more of this barren snore fest? Welp off to... snow land and snow land even emptier edition!"

 

[Silverfish]

And gradually, he begun to hate them.

And so did i.

"Gradually". Dude, you got mad when I praised your video the wrong way.

The whole point was for people to choose something that looked interesting to them, go there and explore.

You know you can pick a direction and explore without a map, right? Like in that game Dark Souls.

So suddenly your feelings are facts and a game adding something you don't like means it's being dumbed down?

Suddenly?

 

[NJClaw]

Can some kind soul quickly update me on anything major that's been going on in this thread since the DLC came out? Thanks!

 

[Bloodeyes]

Optimal:

 

[abija]

You need a map for a skyrim dungeon? Most of them are straight lines clearly sign posted.

Talk about arguing in bad faith....
I'm saying the map is done for the open world and doesn't really mess with his precious dark souls formula. Somehow you "pretend to understand" I need a map for the dungeons, while at the same time trying to pass as fact that all ER dungeons are Skyrim level.

You know you can pick a direction and explore without a map, right? Like in that game Dark Souls.

In DS due to the difference in size there's always a small set of clear routes/poi on your screen. In this game that would mean forcing methodical exploration of huge areas to people that might dislike that kind of gameplay. You would think the people complaining about the "barren" open world would appreciate that...

 

[Silverfish]

In DS due to the difference in size in DS there's always a small set of clear routes/poi on your screen. In this game that would mean forcing methodical exploration of huge areas to people that might dislike that kind of gameplay. You would think the people complaining about the "barren" open world would appreciate that...

How would obvious routes or points of interest force methodical exploration? Bethesda tend to make the intended path pretty clearly signposted in their games, but there's nothing preventing you from picking a random direction and following it as far as you can. Even if you don't like Beth as many on the Codex don't, Obsidian pulled the same trick even more expertly in New Vegas, putting the strip squarely in view early on, but allowing you to go in whichever way you like.

 

[abija]

Seriously? The lack of those would force it.

And why exactly do you explain how Bethesda do it when they also have world maps?

 

[Silverfish]

Seriously? The lack of those would force it.

"Actually, I'm going to try to flummox you by responding to your post with the opposite of my previous position."

And why exactly do you explain how Bethesda do it when they also have world maps?

Yes, but those other games aren't sequels to Demon's Souls.

 

[abija]

"Actually, I'm going to try to flummox you by responding to your post with the opposite of my previous position."

We're talking about adding a map instead of letting players navigate like in DS, right?

"due to the difference in size in DS there's always a small set of clear routes/poi on your screen" -> no map, follow the limited routes or go to the poi you see directly
" In this game that would mean forcing methodical exploration of huge areas to people that might dislike that kind of gameplay." -> no map, no clear/limited routes or directly visible poi -> you have to methodically "map" the area while exploring

Pretty obvious unless you try on purpose to misrepresent it.

Yes, but those other games aren't sequels to Demon's Souls.

So...

- ER is DS sequel + open world
- they add a map for the open world
- you say map is not needed and point to Bethesda open worlds who have a map as an example of how to do it
- what works in Bethesda open worlds with a map should work in ER without a map because DS didn't have a map

Do you stand by that logic?

 

[Silverfish]

no map, no clear/limited routes or directly visible poi -> you have to methodically "map" the area while exploring

Except you don't because fast travel is in play. Also, what's stopping Fromsoft from making clear routes and also allowing for free roam?

So...

- ER is DS sequel + open world
- they add a map for the open world
- you say map is not needed and point to Bethesda open worlds who have a map as an example of how to do it
- what works in Bethesda open worlds with a map should work in ER without a map because DS didn't have a map

Do you stand by that logic?

Yes. Elden Ring, in my view, shouldn't have bothered with a map considering that previous entries in its own series made worlds that could be navigated without and it's inclusion is a concession to a more casual audience. Simultaneously, Bethesda and Obsidian have made open world settings that better utilize clearly marked 'intended' paths and points of interest despite their use of maps.

 

[abija]

Yes.

I appologize for saying you argue in badfaith and I'm sorry for your situation.

 

[Silverfish]

It's cool. Sorry the "you can hold two positions that don't actually contradict?" thing didn't work out.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Can some kind soul quickly update me on anything major that's been going on in this thread since the DLC came out? Thanks!

Well, let's see, what we learned so far is that this DLC is totally dumbed down, mainstream simplified garbage. Literally slop, and no where near as complex and profound as masterpieces like Halo, God of War or SKyrim.

We also learned that at the same time the DLC is too teh hard. The layout of the map is excessively complicated and the bosses are totally impossible to beat legit and can only be beat with cheese, specifically, by means of an arcane and esoteric technique only the "pros" are pivy to, having learned it from ancient, hidden tomes known as "wikis". I'm talking about "buffs", especially super mysterious ones such as Golden Vow, or Howl of Shabriri, buffs which the "average" player missed out completely most likely because exploration was too difficult in the original game. Who could be expected to ever be able to find Golden Vow, by which means bosses in this DLC can literally be "burst" before they get to do anything?

I think this is about it. All those arguments coming from the same two people BTW.