From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lyric Suite]

Just because you keep repeating the same lie doesn't make it true. If you interpret the words otherwise than the actual meaning, it's you who argues in bad faith as you did all over this thread.
There's a reason you keep misquoting and misrepresenting what I said or why you wet your pants when you even think someone looked at your post history.

And gradually, he begun to hate them.

And so did i.

I wonder if people who are this way are just trained to do it and are doing it consciously or if it's just something that comes naturally if you are a relativist or have an innate nominalism mindset.

 

[Hell Swarm]

So no one wants to discuss the barren goyslop of Elden ring then? Oh well, I'm just gaslighting you any way. I haven't even played a From game lol.

 

[abija]

It's not bad faith, I'm earnestly making fun of you.

Right, you're not lying you're just beeing cheeky. I think it's time for one of your "I'm so detached and cool" memes.

Because I didn't say say that ER is bad because of a map. I said that the game dumbs down the Souls formula and that the map is one aspect of that process.

They added something on top of the formula and thought that addition could use more tools. That doesn't mean the game is dumbed down. Especially since the maps are mostly useless in navigating dungeons. The whole point was for people to choose something that looked interesting to them, go there and explore.

Nevermind the flex they did and the feeling most people got the first times the map zoomed out.

Why did you add compass to that list if not for padding?

So suddenly your feelings are facts and a game adding something you don't like means it's being dumbed down?

So no one wants to discuss the barren goyslop of Elden ring then? Oh well, I'm just gaslighting you any way. I haven't even played a From game lol.

My blind playthrough clocked close to 250 hours so the game world had plenty to offer. But I was exploring and appreciating the world not jonesing for the next dopamine hit.

 

[Hell Swarm]

They added something on top of the formula and thought that addition could use more tools. That doesn't mean the game is dumbed down. Especially since the maps are mostly useless in navigating dungeons. The whole point was for people to choose something that looked interesting to them, go there and explore.

You need a map for a skyrim dungeon? Most of them are straight lines clearly sign posted.

Nevermind the flex they did and the feeling most people got the first times the map zoomed out.

"Oh fuck, there's more of this barren snore fest? Welp off to... snow land and snow land even emptier edition!"

 

[Silverfish]

And gradually, he begun to hate them.

And so did i.

"Gradually". Dude, you got mad when I praised your video the wrong way.

The whole point was for people to choose something that looked interesting to them, go there and explore.

You know you can pick a direction and explore without a map, right? Like in that game Dark Souls.

So suddenly your feelings are facts and a game adding something you don't like means it's being dumbed down?

Suddenly?

 

[NJClaw]

Can some kind soul quickly update me on anything major that's been going on in this thread since the DLC came out? Thanks!

 

[Bloodeyes]

Optimal:

 

[abija]

You need a map for a skyrim dungeon? Most of them are straight lines clearly sign posted.

Talk about arguing in bad faith....
I'm saying the map is done for the open world and doesn't really mess with his precious dark souls formula. Somehow you "pretend to understand" I need a map for the dungeons, while at the same time trying to pass as fact that all ER dungeons are Skyrim level.

You know you can pick a direction and explore without a map, right? Like in that game Dark Souls.

In DS due to the difference in size there's always a small set of clear routes/poi on your screen. In this game that would mean forcing methodical exploration of huge areas to people that might dislike that kind of gameplay. You would think the people complaining about the "barren" open world would appreciate that...

 

[Silverfish]

In DS due to the difference in size in DS there's always a small set of clear routes/poi on your screen. In this game that would mean forcing methodical exploration of huge areas to people that might dislike that kind of gameplay. You would think the people complaining about the "barren" open world would appreciate that...

How would obvious routes or points of interest force methodical exploration? Bethesda tend to make the intended path pretty clearly signposted in their games, but there's nothing preventing you from picking a random direction and following it as far as you can. Even if you don't like Beth as many on the Codex don't, Obsidian pulled the same trick even more expertly in New Vegas, putting the strip squarely in view early on, but allowing you to go in whichever way you like.

 

[abija]

Seriously? The lack of those would force it.

And why exactly do you explain how Bethesda do it when they also have world maps?

 

[Silverfish]

Seriously? The lack of those would force it.

"Actually, I'm going to try to flummox you by responding to your post with the opposite of my previous position."

And why exactly do you explain how Bethesda do it when they also have world maps?

Yes, but those other games aren't sequels to Demon's Souls.

 

[abija]

"Actually, I'm going to try to flummox you by responding to your post with the opposite of my previous position."

We're talking about adding a map instead of letting players navigate like in DS, right?

"due to the difference in size in DS there's always a small set of clear routes/poi on your screen" -> no map, follow the limited routes or go to the poi you see directly
" In this game that would mean forcing methodical exploration of huge areas to people that might dislike that kind of gameplay." -> no map, no clear/limited routes or directly visible poi -> you have to methodically "map" the area while exploring

Pretty obvious unless you try on purpose to misrepresent it.

Yes, but those other games aren't sequels to Demon's Souls.

So...

- ER is DS sequel + open world
- they add a map for the open world
- you say map is not needed and point to Bethesda open worlds who have a map as an example of how to do it
- what works in Bethesda open worlds with a map should work in ER without a map because DS didn't have a map

Do you stand by that logic?

 

[Silverfish]

no map, no clear/limited routes or directly visible poi -> you have to methodically "map" the area while exploring

Except you don't because fast travel is in play. Also, what's stopping Fromsoft from making clear routes and also allowing for free roam?

So...

- ER is DS sequel + open world
- they add a map for the open world
- you say map is not needed and point to Bethesda open worlds who have a map as an example of how to do it
- what works in Bethesda open worlds with a map should work in ER without a map because DS didn't have a map

Do you stand by that logic?

Yes. Elden Ring, in my view, shouldn't have bothered with a map considering that previous entries in its own series made worlds that could be navigated without and it's inclusion is a concession to a more casual audience. Simultaneously, Bethesda and Obsidian have made open world settings that better utilize clearly marked 'intended' paths and points of interest despite their use of maps.

 

[abija]

Yes.

I appologize for saying you argue in badfaith and I'm sorry for your situation.

 

[Silverfish]

It's cool. Sorry the "you can hold two positions that don't actually contradict?" thing didn't work out.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Can some kind soul quickly update me on anything major that's been going on in this thread since the DLC came out? Thanks!

Well, let's see, what we learned so far is that this DLC is totally dumbed down, mainstream simplified garbage. Literally slop, and no where near as complex and profound as masterpieces like Halo, God of War or SKyrim.

We also learned that at the same time the DLC is too teh hard. The layout of the map is excessively complicated and the bosses are totally impossible to beat legit and can only be beat with cheese, specifically, by means of an arcane and esoteric technique only the "pros" are pivy to, having learned it from ancient, hidden tomes known as "wikis". I'm talking about "buffs", especially super mysterious ones such as Golden Vow, or Howl of Shabriri, buffs which the "average" player missed out completely most likely because exploration was too difficult in the original game. Who could be expected to ever be able to find Golden Vow, by which means bosses in this DLC can literally be "burst" before they get to do anything?

I think this is about it. All those arguments coming from the same two people BTW.

 

[Hell Swarm]

no map, no clear/limited routes or directly visible poi -> you have to methodically "map" the area while exploring

Except you don't because fast travel is in play. Also, what's stopping Fromsoft from making clear routes and also allowing for free roam?

So...

- ER is DS sequel + open world
- they add a map for the open world
- you say map is not needed and point to Bethesda open worlds who have a map as an example of how to do it
- what works in Bethesda open worlds with a map should work in ER without a map because DS didn't have a map

Do you stand by that logic?

Yes. Elden Ring, in my view, shouldn't have bothered with a map considering that previous entries in its own series made worlds that could be navigated without and it's inclusion is a concession to a more casual audience. Simultaneously, Bethesda and Obsidian have made open world settings that better utilize clearly marked 'intended' paths and points of interest despite their use of maps.

Here comes the "it's bad faith because I can't respond to your argument posts" again.

Elden Ring's map has always been controversial. It's poorly sign posted for a map that big and often is empty if you take anything but the main path. If this is the design they were going for they should have made the main path more obvious since almost everything else is worthless.

Lastly and I'm sure this will set the retards off. Elden Ring doesn't have a map like other open world games do because From as fucking stupid and decided they know when I should be able to look at the map and shouldn't. Any other open world game I can open the map and maybe pause the game. Instead From decide if you have enemy aggro (or maybe not) the map won't open. The button just stops working. So you can run past a slow moving slime with no ranged attack. It won't reach you for a good 2 minutes and you get the "No map for you faggot!" noise over and over. Even if you want to argue Elden ring should have a map (I think it should) the way it's implemented is peak From quality. It fucking sucks. It's annoying. If they didn't want you to fast travel to escape combat they should have made bonfire teleporting again like every other souls game. But instead we have this half arsed hybrid of bullshit.

 

[abija]

Am I to understand you also agree to that logic?

 

[NJClaw]

bosses are totally impossible to beat legit and can only be beat with cheese, specifically

So people still haven't found out how to equip a greatshield? I see.

Elden Ring's map has always been controversial. It's poorly sign posted for a map that big and often is empty if you take anything but the main path. If this is the design they were going for they should have made the main path more obvious since almost everything else is worthless.

I'm sorry if I join the conversation without full context, but what do you mean by "make the main path more obvious"? And more importantly, are you talking about the DLC or the base game?

Lastly and I'm sure this will set the retards off. Elden Ring doesn't have a map like other open world games do because From as fucking stupid and decided they know when I should be able to look at the map and shouldn't. Any other open world game I can open the map and maybe pause the game. Instead From decide if you have enemy aggro (or maybe not) the map won't open. The button just stops working. So you can run past a slow moving slime with no ranged attack. It won't reach you for a good 2 minutes and you get the "No map for you faggot!" noise over and over. Even if you want to argue Elden ring should have a map (I think it should) the way it's implemented is peak From quality. It fucking sucks. It's annoying. If they didn't want you to fast travel to escape combat they should have made bonfire teleporting again like every other souls game. But instead we have this half arsed hybrid of bullshit.

The amount of time you are unable to open the map in a full playthrough because there's a slow moving slime with no ranged attack next to you is less than what it took you to write this post though.

 

[Hell Swarm]

The amount of time you are unable to open the map in a full playthrough because there's a slow moving slime with no ranged attack next to you is less than what it took you to write this post though.

No it isn't. If you're riding around looking for something or trying to get to a specific point you will regularly have an enemy aggroed some where off screen that's no threat to you. It's a constant annoyance.

DLC map is as bad as the main map, just in different ways.

 

[Strange Fellow]

So people still haven't found out how to equip a greatshield? I see.

I'm afraid that's cheese, you're obviously following a guide and should commit sudoku immediately.

 

[Ravielsk]

The map itself is fine. The problem is the world its attached to. Elden Ring has some kind of intended progression for the player but that progression is not really signposted beyond "there is the big boss guy". This creates a problem as to what is and is not and is not expected of the player. So when you encounter a problem you can be never sure if its a problem born of your lack of skill or low level or a missing piece of equipment or something else entirely.

A fine example of this is how vitality scales. When the game launched most people did not level vitality because no one knew how quickly it can take you from sub 500HP to over 1000HP. This made bosses like Margit or even Radhan needlessly difficult because the game made no effort to signpost the expected statline to the player. Or for example summons. Are they meant to be used as part of your base kit or not? Is poisoning Margit with the jelly fish the intended way of beating him or a crutch? I have to ask because of the way summons skew the early game difficulty towards the significantly easier side but then peter out in mid to late game(with a few exceptions).

All of this came to the forefront with the DLC because as it turned out most players were not running hyper optimized builds and so a DLC made for hyper optimized builds kicked their ass(myself included).

 

[Strange Fellow]

None of these are problems if you have a functioning brain. Oh no, the bosses don't come with "you must be this tall to enter" signposts? Maybe they should make the fights impossible to enter at low level, or introduce level scaling? Fuck off with this decline bullshit.

 

[Lyric Suite]

So people still haven't found out how to equip a greatshield? I see.

I'm afraid that's cheese, you're obviously following a guide and should commit sudoku immediately.

Can't use tools the game provide, otherwise it doesn't count.

Like me using Vow of the Indominable to get past this boss attacks:



See, that's just cheese. Doesn't count.

 

[abija]

All of this came to the forefront with the DLC because as it turned out most players were not running hyper optimized builds and so a DLC made for hyper optimized builds kicked their ass(myself included).

Define hyper optimized build.