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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
2,323
Location
Illinois
Nice, been interested in Encased but never could be assed to pick it up since I had a bunch of other shit piled up to play. Good excuse to take a look at it and then immediately slam alt-f4 during character creation since there's the option for custom portraits and any excuse to use abominable intelligence for RPG portraits is a good one. Gotta go for a standard Fallout talky gunslinger. Second one takes it for meshing a little better with the standard portraits and smugness will carry him on during his adventure.

OKpCNNF.png

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Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
2,323
Location
Illinois
Is that a gigantic raw doughnut around his neck?
And what AI did you use?
Furry donuts are anomalies to keep you cool in the desert, you know.
Specifically it's a mix of stable diffusion shit but the main thrust of it is just SD1.5, you can get extremely similar results out of Dezgo even though it hasn't got all the options of running it locally. Biggest noteworthy thing is Dezgo doesn't let you do the facial cleanup shit which I ran on that since I just wanted a quick and dirty portrait and wasn't going to spend more than a minute on it, hence the donut and the black lines under his eyes.

Encased has been fairly nice so far. Not sure it'll actually keep me hooked but after playing a bit last night to look at it I'll fuck around with it some more.
 

Mitleser2020

Scholar
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
1,444
Not the director's cut.

Initially, it was. I managed to claim the free DC version before they removed it.

To be clear, Death Stranding: Director's Cut was absolutely made available for free when the free game for December 25 first launched at 8:00 AM PT. Many Epic Games Store users were able to get ahead of the server issues and pick up the game and, by all accounts, it remains in their libraries even now. After around 90 minutes, however, Epic Games swapped out Death Stranding: Director's Cut, replacing it with the standard edition. No explanation has been provided
The Death Stranding: Director's Cut is a meaningfully improved version of the game, especially for PC. It features additional graphics options including 4K resolution support, the removal of product placement like Monster energy drinks, new combat abilities and equipment, and a mission for the Ruined Factory which players will want to experience for themselves.
https://gamerant.com/epic-games-store-death-stranding-directors-cut-free-game-replaced/
 

GhostCow

Balanced Gamer
Patron
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
3,995
I wonder how much money if any that is being made from the EGS. It seems like they are paying crazy amounts to get devs to use it and giving away all kinds of free games, yet gamers still don't want to use it for the most part. I think everyone has realized at this point that EGS is just the new early access and they are better off waiting for the finished game to come out on Steam.
 

pqt

Literate
Joined
Oct 5, 2022
Messages
34
They are about 10 years behind Steam, so I think they have no choice other than burn the money. I do play their free games but I haven't bought anything from them.
 

Ezekiel

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
5,542

Initially, it was. I managed to claim the free DC version before they removed it.

To be clear, Death Stranding: Director's Cut was absolutely made available for free when the free game for December 25 first launched at 8:00 AM PT. Many Epic Games Store users were able to get ahead of the server issues and pick up the game and, by all accounts, it remains in their libraries even now. After around 90 minutes, however, Epic Games swapped out Death Stranding: Director's Cut, replacing it with the standard edition. No explanation has been provided
The Death Stranding: Director's Cut is a meaningfully improved version of the game, especially for PC. It features additional graphics options including 4K resolution support, the removal of product placement like Monster energy drinks, new combat abilities and equipment, and a mission for the Ruined Factory which players will want to experience for themselves.
https://gamerant.com/epic-games-store-death-stranding-directors-cut-free-game-replaced/
Is it easy to mod in HFR and 4K? Guessing it's just pre-rendered cutscenes that would be a problem, and KojiPro probably wouldn't have rendered those again in higher resolution anyway.
 

Kev Inkline

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
5,113
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
They are about 10 years behind Steam, so I think they have no choice other than burn the money. I do play their free games but I haven't bought anything from them.
It may actually pay off in the longer run:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/4/2...pple-trial-arkham-subnautica-mutant-year-zero

Over the period covered by the document, Epic paid over $11.6 million in total for the games. In response to the deals, almost five million new users signed up to the store, which translates to Epic paying $2.37 for each new user it signed up in this period. That’s money which the company would theoretically make back if each new user went on to buy just one $20 game, based on the 12 percent commission Epic takes on new purchases.
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
3,000
They are about 10 years behind Steam, so I think they have no choice other than burn the money. I do play their free games but I haven't bought anything from them.
It may actually pay off in the longer run:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/4/2...pple-trial-arkham-subnautica-mutant-year-zero

Over the period covered by the document, Epic paid over $11.6 million in total for the games. In response to the deals, almost five million new users signed up to the store, which translates to Epic paying $2.37 for each new user it signed up in this period. That’s money which the company would theoretically make back if each new user went on to buy just one $20 game, based on the 12 percent commission Epic takes on new purchases.
The free games aren't that relevant. What is more relevant is that they're spending billions to secure timed exclusives and don't expect to be profitable for many years.

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-has-su...re-doesnt-expect-to-make-a-profit-until-2027/

Epic has sunk $500M into the Epic Games Store, doesn't expect to make a profit until 2027​


https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-games-has-spent-at-least-dollar1-billion-on-exclusives/

Epic Games has spent at least $1 billion on exclusives​



The great irony is that Epic was far better positioned than Valve to monopolize PC gaming. As the owner of the Unreal Engine, they could've easily launched their own store and demanded any developer using the Unreal Engine to exclusively sell their game through their store. Instead, Sweeney was crowing about how PC gaming was dead.

https://news.softpedia.com/news/Tim-Sweeney-Says-the-PC-Is-Dead-for-Games-80714.shtml

Tim Sweeney Says the PC Is "Dead" for Games

"Yesterday's PCs were for people that were working and later playing games, even if those games were lower-end ones. There will always be a market for casual games and online games like World of Warcraft. But at the end of the day, consoles have definitely left PC games behind."
 
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Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,506
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Epic Games Store tries again.

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-games-store-self-publishing/

Epic launches self-publishing tools, calls out Valve again: 'Steam has created a real problem for the industry'​

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says Valve's Steamworks API is a "classic lock-in strategy."

The Epic Games Store is now open for self-publishing(opens in new tab). For $100, the same fee Valve charges for Steam submissions, anyone can submit a game for inclusion in the Epic Games Store library. Epic's system is similar to Steam Direct, which Valve introduced in 2018, and will probably result in Epic's library ballooning over the next year.

There are a few notable differences between Steam and Epic's self-publishing rules, however. In some ways, Epic's game submission guidelines(opens in new tab) are more permissive than Steam's, but Epic also has two big rules that Steam doesn't. Paraphrased, they are:
  • No pornographic games
  • Multiplayer games must have crossplay with other PC stores
The first of those was expected: Epic CEO Tim Sweeney said in 2019 that the Epic Games Store won't sell porn, whereas Valve has allowed adult games on Steam since 2018—one of the store's most wishlisted games right now is an explicit sex game(opens in new tab). Before and even after making the decision to sell adult games, Valve has struggled with where to draw the line (one thing it currently prohibits is "sexually explicit images of real people") and Epic will likely have same issue: Is an erotic text adventure porn? How erotic is too erotic? Epic will have to decide.

The second rule there is a requirement rather than a prohibition: If you release a multiplayer game on the Epic Games Store and Steam (or another PC store), you have to make it possible for everyone to play together, regardless of where they bought it. Epic offers a free solution for cross-launcher multiplayer called Epic Online Services, but says that developers can use their own online system if they prefer.

Steam does not have such a requirement for multiplayer games, and its free multiplayer API, Steamworks, does not work on any store except Steam. Sweeney has a bone to pick with Valve over that. In a call this week, the Epic CEO told me that "Steam has created a real problem for the industry" with Steamworks.

"They have a classic lock-in strategy where they build these services that only work with their store, and they use the fact that they have the majority market share in order to encourage everybody to ship games that have a broken experience in other stores," Sweeney said. "And we were bitten by this early on with a number of multiplayer games coming to the Epic Games Store. Steamworks didn't work on our store, so they had either a reduced set of multiplayer features or none, or they were just limited to a much smaller audience back in the launch days of the Epic Games Store, so you had a lot of multiplayer games that really felt like they were broken. And remember, Call of Duty went through a debacle launching on the Windows Store a while back in which you could only matchmake with other Windows Store players, and that is not how PC should work."

The Epic Online Services API also supports crossplay between PC and consoles—it's the same technology Epic built for Fortnite—but console crossplay isn't a requirement for EGS submissions, just crossplay between PC stores.

A potential consequence for us is that we'll see more multiplayer games use their own friends lists—or Epic's system—rather than fully integrating with Steamworks. That's already a common sight, though: Many multiplayer games on Steam require separate accounts or only partially use Steam's API. Rainbow Six Siege, for instance, requires Ubisoft Connect. And PC multiplayer functionality of course wasn't tied to the store you bought it from in the pre-Steam era (I'm not sure how you would've made me play Command & Conquer: Red Alert exclusively at Fry's Electronics).

Beyond those two rules, Epic may also be pickier during its "quality and functionality" review process. According to Epic Games Store GM Steve Allison, someone will play each submitted game for 20 minutes to determine whether or not it launches properly and is actually the game depicted on the store page. Valve has a similar process, but has said in the past that, for the most part, it doesn't want to make judgment calls about quality or taste. Epic won't get too specific, but it sounds to me like it does plan to make subjective judgments in the review process. When giving an example of a game that might be rejected, Allison used the term "asset flip," which commonly refers to low-effort clones that replace the art from popular games with free or low-quality assets.

On the flip side, Valve has restrictions that Epic doesn't. Unlike Steam, the Epic Games Store has no ban on blockchain games. Epic also allows developers to use their own payment processing for in-game transactions, which bypasses Epic's revenue cut, whereas Steam requires in-game transactions to use the Steam Wallet. And although Steam did lower its revenue cut to 20% for the biggest publishers, it hasn't matched the 12% cut that Epic made so much noise about back when the Epic Games Store launched in late 2018.

Outside of the submission guidelines, a big question for developers and PC gamers is how well the Epic Games Store interface will handle a potential deluge of new games. When it introduced Steam Direct, Valve prioritized the development of Steam features that helped users discover games they might be interested in, such as the Discovery Queue. The Epic Games Store will continue to get interface updates, but as a matter of principle, Allison says that Epic will not track user behavior and use it to algorithmically recommend games. Epic has said in the past(opens in new tab) that it's more interested in supporting the game discovery that already happens outside of stores, such as on Twitch and YouTube.

Epic talks a little about upcoming EGS features in the Epic Games Store 2022 Year in Review blog post(opens in new tab) that went up today—the company says it's most focused on performance improvements this year.

Epic also announced in that post that it will continue its free games program throughout 2023(opens in new tab). Epic has been giving away games on the Epic Games Store for years now, including some big ones like GTA 5 and Death Stranding, which is one of the ways it reached 68 million monthly active users in 2022. Sweeney and Allison also spoke to me about Epic's exclusivity strategy going forward.

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-isnt-d...tore-exclusives-its-just-focused-on-big-ones/

Epic isn't done with Epic Games Store exclusives, it's just focused on big ones​

Epic-published games like Alan Wake 2 will be EGS exclusives, not that there was much doubt about that.

Epic hasn't been announcing Epic Games Store exclusivity deals at the rate it once was, but if it seemed like one of the least-popular PC gaming business strategies of the past decade was on the way out: it ain't.

In a call about the new Epic Games Store self-publishing tools(opens in new tab) earlier this week, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney told me that the company hasn't changed its philosophy around exclusives, but if it feels like there are fewer lately, that may be because it's going after bigger fish these days.

"We're really honing our strategy based on what we observed worked really well in previous launches, and what didn't work really well," said Sweeney. "A handful of major exclusives really moved the needle … and the smaller games, especially games that had a smaller audience that was typically on Steam, we found that a lot of those players weren't willing to move over."

One of those hit exclusives was Borderlands 3, which "has just crushed, like, well beyond the expectations of the developers and the publishers," Epic Games Store general manager Steve Allison told me on the same call.

Also part of Epic's ongoing exclusivity strategy is its relatively new game publishing wing, which is funding the development of several upcoming games, including Alan Wake 2 from Remedy, a new game from Limbo developer Playdead, and a game from The Last Guardian studio genDesign.

If there were any doubt that these games would be Epic Games Store exclusives on PC, let it be dispelled now. They will be exclusive for "a long time," Allison told me.

Those are just the upcoming Epic-published games we know about. The company has about 14 games in total coming from publishing partners. That includes PC Building Simulator 2, as well as a few games from Fall Guys creator Mediatonic, which Epic bought in 2021 and has a publishing operation of its own. Another Epic-published game from a small studio will be announced at GDC later this month, Allison says, and more will be revealed later this year.

Allison also told me that they've seen publishers run timed Epic Store exclusives without any deal: They just want to take advantage of Epic's better revenue share for their launch sales before later releasing on Steam. That's why Rockstar put Red Dead Redemption 2 on the Epic Games Store a few weeks before Steam, Allison says.

Aside from exclusives, Epic is also continuing a much more popular strategy for bringing in new Epic Games Store users: giving away free games. The company announced today(opens in new tab) that it'll keep up the weekly giveaways it started in 2019 at least through the rest of 2023.

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-games-...shouldnt-be-hoovering-up-everybodys-art-data/

Epic Games CEO says AI companies shouldn't be 'hoovering up everybody's art data'​

Tim Sweeney doesn't want to get in the way of AI experimentation, but doesn't approve of scraping art without permission, either.

Epic Games recently acquired ArtStation(opens in new tab), which among other things is one of the biggest websites that artists use for sharing their portfolios. That means it's also a target for AI companies looking for lots of categorized visual art to use as free training material for their machine learning algorithms. Although Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney hasn't taken any kind of hard stance against generative AI systems in general, he says he doesn't like that companies are ingesting people's artwork without permission.

"They're scraping the web to find people's artwork and then using it, and not getting their explicit say-so on the thing," Sweeney told PC Gamer in a call earlier this week. "And a company shouldn't do that sort of thing, right? Maybe that's in bounds for research, but when you're selling a commercial product that's used to generate commercial artwork, you shouldn't do that."

Last year, Epic created a "noAI" tag artists can apply to their ArtStation works to explicitly prohibit their use in AI training. A number of users felt the company should've applied that tag to all artwork by default rather than leaving it up to users to add it, but for now, it exists as a way to make a proactive statement.

"Choosing not to use the tag leaves copyright law to govern whether or not the artwork was fairly used," reads ArtStation's AI policy page(opens in new tab), which was last updated in February. "AI's use and its place in copyright law is new and unsettled, leaving open many questions about copyright law's enforceability against use of work in AI. Adding the 'NoAI' tag empowers you to clarify that regardless of the state of copyright law, use of your work in AI is not permitted."

The use of generative AI in the creation of artwork posted to ArtStation is not prohibited by the site's rules, although it has introduced a filter for users who don't want to see AI-generated images, and tells artists: "The works on your portfolio should be work that you created and we encourage you to be transparent in the process."

Image generators like Midjourney and chatbots like ChatGPT are the most public-facing, controversial applications for machine learning models right now, but it's "a much, much larger field," as Sweeney puts it, and one Epic is already involved in.

"For example, our real-world content scanning at Quixel and 3Lateral, that go around and scan real-world objects, is based really fundamentally on using AI and machine learning to produce very high quality 3D imagery from 2D photographs," Sweeney told me. "Everybody's gonna use AI in lots of ways. Most of it will be just to improve the way we do things today."

When it comes to the more "disruptive" uses of AI, like image generators, Sweeney says he intends to strike a balance between protecting creative work and letting artists engage with new technology at their will.

"At Epic, we see ourselves as being on both sides," said Sweeney. "We're creatives ourselves. We have a lot of artists in the family. We're a tool company, too. We support a lot of game developers. Some of them will use AI, some of them will hate AI, and we want to be a trustable neutral intermediary that doesn't get in the way of industry development, but also isn't going off and hoovering up everybody's art data."

As AI tech and copyright law evolve, that in-between stance may feel some strain: If scraping art for AI training were determined to be legal, for instance, the "noAI" ArtStation tag and whether or not it's applied by default would become much more significant.

Beyond just image generators, it's becoming clear that some form of AI is going to touch everything we do on computers, whether we want it to or not. A company I sometimes point to as an interesting but less-sensational example of machine learning tech is using it to automatically rig 3D models for animation. Not long ago, Rocket League cheaters were using a godlike bot that had been trained with a machine learning algorithm. Now Discord's sticking ChatGPT in our servers.

I squeezed in this question about AI during a bigger conversation with Sweeney about the Epic Games Store and its new self-publishing tools, which you can read all about here. I also asked about Epic's exclusivity strategy going forward: The short version is that Epic Games Store exclusives aren't going away, but expect Epic to focus on fewer niche games and more big publishing deals.
 
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ADL

Prophet
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
3,752
Location
Nantucket
  • No pornographic games
  • Multiplayer games must have crossplay with other PC stores
Nice. This will have a trickle down effect on GOG titles which I appreciate since they're too niche to enforce such measures to any degree of success. As for Alan Wake 2's presumed permanent exclusivity, I have no problem with it since they funded the game's production from the very start. I don't view this any differently than Left4Dead or Portal being permanent exclusives to Steam.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
10,058
Nice in theory but dunno if I care for games that have been out for years being changed to run on EG's middleware possibly breaking things like Rising Storm 2's VOIP issues after being switched to EGS and not getting much in the way of further patching.
 

GhostCow

Balanced Gamer
Patron
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
3,995
Forcing devs to make their online shit work across multiple stores is incline, but how did we get to a point that it wasn't already like this? Do devs not run their own servers anymore? Is all of their networking shit through Steam somehow? I don't get it.
 

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