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Fallout 2 - It's meant to be good?

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,876
Well its classic fallout... the possibilites to get buttfucked for no clear reason are infinite in both games, savescumming is king here. Just reload and play the trial on easy mode, shouldnt take too long.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
F2's beginning is shit. You will get constantly murdered by everything and you'll (probably) be grinding geckos or whatnot to get past that bit. It's worse if you try to make anything other than combat boy. It's the main reason keeping me from replaying it much more than I do.

It does get better -- like, a lot better -- later on. It could still have used some :balance: as the difficulty fluctuates wildly between getting constantly one-shotted and godmode, and completely loses any semblance of challenge once you find out where the godmode gear is and know how to get it early on. Which is a shame as a lot of the quests and content is fucking awesome.
 

Arthandas

Prophet
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,551
Hello!

I have to say that so far Fallout 2 really pisses me off to no end.

First i used the explosives to kill some bugs... GAME OVER. That was soooo lame.

Then i got to Cameron with 10hp left... GAME OVER again.

And now i finally finish the stupid temple but for some reason i keep dying. I stand there at the exit and i just drop dead.

I have exactly 1 health point but i am NOT poisoned. I was poisoned in the temple but i drank the potion and got cured. So why do i keep dying? I reeeeally hope this is not a bug... I have the unofficial patch which is supposed to be 100% bug free.

Now i guess its not a problem to reload and do some stuff again but damnit this is bullshit. Especially since i came to F2 from Arcanum(havent finished it yet just taking a break) ARCANUM where no matter how stuck and how dire the situation was i always had a way out that never involved reaching for the Load button. Unless i got killed. But i always accepted the consequences of my deeds and marched on.

And now in F2 the consequence of using the explosives was game over and the consequence of having low health was game over and the consequenece of finishing the temple of trials is fuck you GAME OVER.

I know it gets better later but i have to say that as far as game beginnings go this is really shit.
If you have such troubles in the first fucking area of the game Temple of Trials, then maybe you're not the Chosen One.
 

Diggfinger

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
1,240
Location
Belgium
Fallout 2 is a good game but very much inferior to the first Fallout in almost every way save for size and some of the quest design.

This is probably an alt or a troll or whatever, but I feel like rambling about Fallout 2 anyway. Thanks, jackass!

For one, yes, the opening of the game sucks. The Temple of Trials was apparently thrown together at the last minute because Interplay wanted the game to have a tutorial level, and while Arroyo and Klamath aren't bad in theory, in practice they're just too slow-paced. Hunting geckos to find an old drunk's moonshine? Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. As others have said, though, once you hit the Den and especially Vault City, the game picks up significantly.

Fallout 2 also has a much weaker story than the first Fallout, mostly due to the lack of a clear villain for most of the game and its focus on solving local troubles, without having them tie into a larger plot thread or goal. Again, it does pick up steam as you go, but it also gets pretty derpy near the end, so it's definitely not worth getting too excited about plot. Fallout 2 is all about the choices you make in solving quests and building your character, as well as exploring a huge world, not so much about coherency.

Despite the silliness and occasional lore destruction, some quests get really complicated and interweave with one another, influencing each others' outcomes and whatnot, which is something you almost never see in other RPGs, much less modern ones (New Vegas is the only one I've seen do that to a significant degree in years). More than anything that's what I appreciate about Fallout 2, but I rarely get that far because the early game is so boring and frustrating.

Another change I don't like is the focus on combat. The first Fallout had a lot of it, but importantly, much could be avoided either by simply running past enemies or by talking/puzzling/whatevering your way through things instead. A little foresight could go a long way, and playing a diplomat was actually a very viable strategy. Fallout 2, meanwhile, pretty much forces you to heavily specialize in at least one weapons skill, and large stretches of the game pretty much revolve entirely around combat. It's not that there aren't non-combat options, speech checks, etc., it's just that usually you're forced into fighting despite all of that stuff. I can't help but think that's a result of either rushed development, or simple padding.

My preferred course of action on the early game was always:

1) skip early areas/tutorial
2) go to San Franciso and rob the shopkeeper: gain around 3000 gold
3) buy out Sulik in Klamath
4) Go to Navarro (with 55% speech) and dupe robed guy to let me in
5) Equip power armor...

Having a plasma rifle makes gecko hunting easier :australia::hahano: ...Good gawd this game is imbalanced :(

- Digg
 
Last edited:

Diablo

Novice
Joined
May 3, 2015
Messages
33
Well its classic fallout... the possibilites to get buttfucked for no clear reason are infinite in both games, savescumming is king here. Just reload and play the trial on easy mode, shouldnt take too long.

Doctor Best

I have nothing against possibilities to get buttfucked. I love those! I got buttfucked in Arcanum plenty of times. but i never got a Game Over screen because of some random decision. Instead i just had to come up with something else to remove the obstacle.


It does get better -- like, a lot better -- later on. It could still have used some :balance: as the difficulty fluctuates wildly between getting constantly one-shotted and godmode, and completely loses any semblance of challenge once you find out where the godmode gear is and know how to get it early on. Which is a shame as a lot of the quests and content is fucking awesome.

I know it will get better its just that this intro is very anti-Fallout. Its like a joke really. You dont even get a proper Game Over screen, instead they just let you stand there like a fool:(


Now im not an expert in rpg design but i followed some discussions around here and from what i gathered this
sawyer.gif
floating head means "balance". Like the game is unbalanced.
But i think the problem here is not balance, its just a lack of options. Maybe im wrong about this but it seems to me the balance people want to balance the ROLES so that every role can pass the game. So they thinker with the roles themselves. But instead they should leave them "unbalanced" as in this one is stronger this one is weaker etc. and just give the player a lot of options...

I mean im really really weak in Arcanum. but i get by somehow... because the game gives you all these options.

I guess you could call this balancing in a way( like balancing through options) but as i understood it thats not how the balance people mean it. They mean litterally the roles are unbalanced. Maybe im wrong.

To quote SCO from the top of the page
Options are good.

Give me options.

Thats it! Thats all there is to it. Thats why Arcanum is the best.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Nah it's balance. In a single-player game, balance just means that some ways of playing the game are so OP you'll risk falling asleep at the keyboard, while other ways are -- at least in places -- so punishingly hard they're un-fun. This is the case both in FO2 and Arcanum (Harm-spam, Throwing), and the games are worse for it.

A lack of options is a part of the problem of course. You have to have content that fits the systems, and vice versa. In the FO2 early game, this is not really the case; it's really hard to get any XP by avoiding combat, and combat is punishingly hard if you haven't pumped combat skills. Which kind of invalidates half the character-building choices. The fact that it's temporary and Speech Boy will come into his own later is small consolation when you're slogging through the wasteland getting Avelloned by geckos.
 

Diablo

Novice
Joined
May 3, 2015
Messages
33
If you have such troubles in the first fucking area of the game Temple of Trials, then maybe you're not the Chosen One.



What the hell was that! WTF

Im not the Chosen One? But i blew up three ants. And some other guy blew up an immovable door so he gets to be the Chosen One. What kinda criterion is that. Why couldnt i go back to the guard in front of the temple to explain the situation and maybe get some more explosives for the damn door? Thats an option. Its not like the door are gonna go anywhere. But instead i fail. Well that was stupid.


Prime Junta
if thats what they mean by balance then OK. I felt they meant it more as evening out the roles by tinkering inside them, if that makes sense. Anyway ill try the Temple again later see how it goes.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
11,117
Hello!

Then i got to Cameron with 10hp left... GAME OVER again.

There are two other means to get the key from the guard, speech and pickpocket depending on you skills of course. Temple of Trials was a bit annoying in that it made you depend on melee/unarmed skills but none of the fights are too hard and you can pick up 2 levels in it so you can rectify your weaknesses if the inhabitants are proving troublesome. Course you could set the difficulty down as well for bonuses to hit IIRC; that being said, you really should not have that much trouble with ants just using the basic punch/kick attacks because unarmed can start pretty high.

There are people in Arroyo and Klamath who can train your melee/unarmed skill which should be enough to tide you over to getting a decent gun even if you don't want to spend skill points on those skills.

PS. Also was pleasantly surprised to find this wasn't a monthly Fallout sucks troll thread, a necro is far less :roll: than those are.
 

Obama Phone 3

Learned
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
486
Location
Drunk Raptor Zone
Fallout 2 is a good game but very much inferior to the first Fallout in almost every way save for size and some of the quest design.

This is probably an alt or a troll or whatever, but I feel like rambling about Fallout 2 anyway. Thanks, jackass!

For one, yes, the opening of the game sucks. The Temple of Trials was apparently thrown together at the last minute because Interplay wanted the game to have a tutorial level, and while Arroyo and Klamath aren't bad in theory, in practice they're just too slow-paced. Hunting geckos to find an old drunk's moonshine? Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. As others have said, though, once you hit the Den and especially Vault City, the game picks up significantly.

Fallout 2 also has a much weaker story than the first Fallout, mostly due to the lack of a clear villain for most of the game and its focus on solving local troubles, without having them tie into a larger plot thread or goal. Again, it does pick up steam as you go, but it also gets pretty derpy near the end, so it's definitely not worth getting too excited about plot. Fallout 2 is all about the choices you make in solving quests and building your character, as well as exploring a huge world, not so much about coherency.

Despite the silliness and occasional lore destruction, some quests get really complicated and interweave with one another, influencing each others' outcomes and whatnot, which is something you almost never see in other RPGs, much less modern ones (New Vegas is the only one I've seen do that to a significant degree in years). More than anything that's what I appreciate about Fallout 2, but I rarely get that far because the early game is so boring and frustrating.

Another change I don't like is the focus on combat. The first Fallout had a lot of it, but importantly, much could be avoided either by simply running past enemies or by talking/puzzling/whatevering your way through things instead. A little foresight could go a long way, and playing a diplomat was actually a very viable strategy. Fallout 2, meanwhile, pretty much forces you to heavily specialize in at least one weapons skill, and large stretches of the game pretty much revolve entirely around combat. It's not that there aren't non-combat options, speech checks, etc., it's just that usually you're forced into fighting despite all of that stuff. I can't help but think that's a result of either rushed development, or simple padding.

My preferred course of action on the early game was always:

1) skip early areas/tutorial
2) go to San Franciso and rob the shopkeeper: gain around 3000 gold
3) buy out Sulik in Klamath
4) Go to Navarro (with 55% speech) and dupe robed guy to let me in
5) Equip power armor...

Having a plasma rifle makes gecko hunting easier :australia::hahano: ...Good gawd this game is imbalanced :(

- Digg

What's the point of playing the game if you're going to cheat?
 

Obama Phone 3

Learned
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
486
Location
Drunk Raptor Zone
Hello!

I have to say that so far Fallout 2 really pisses me off to no end.

First i used the explosives to kill some bugs... GAME OVER. That was soooo lame.

Then i got to Cameron with 10hp left... GAME OVER again.

And now i finally finish the stupid temple but for some reason i keep dying. I stand there at the exit and i just drop dead.

I have exactly 1 health point but i am NOT poisoned. I was poisoned in the temple but i drank the potion and got cured. So why do i keep dying? I reeeeally hope this is not a bug... I have the unofficial patch which is supposed to be 100% bug free.

Now i guess its not a problem to reload and do some stuff again but damnit this is bullshit. Especially since i came to F2 from Arcanum(havent finished it yet just taking a break) ARCANUM where no matter how stuck and how dire the situation was i always had a way out that never involved reaching for the Load button. Unless i got killed. But i always accepted the consequences of my deeds and marched on.

And now in F2 the consequence of using the explosives was game over and the consequence of having low health was game over and the consequenece of finishing the temple of trials is fuck you GAME OVER.

I know it gets better later but i have to say that as far as game beginnings go this is really shit.

You have got to be some king of retard. I beat Fallout 2 on max difficulty my first playthrough after reading some good build guides: Best Fallout 2 Character Build

Also, because you're used to Arcanum which is real time, I recommend speeding up both combat and total player speed. You can make a tiny boost through the in-game options, but both the restoration project and I believe unofficial patch allow you to boost it up significantly. I remember setting mine to about 200-250% of the default value.

The Temple of Trials does suck FYI. It's boring and can be tough for a new player. It's not representative of the rest of the game by any means. Starting with the first city after you leave your tribe, the game is only so-so. It picks up when you get your car and are able to avoid most of the random skirmishes that occur in the wasteland. Obviously the other perk is that you get to move around the game world way faster too.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Everyone's so busy whining about the Temple of Trials that they forgot to mention it's suckier uncle, the fucking rat warren in Klamath. Oh man did that suck, walking through a rubble maze and killing rats one and two at a time. Fuck. That.

The game does get a lot better after Klamath of course. There is a lot of cheesy stuff and throwaway jokes, and a lot of ways to break the game in terms of balance. But I love Reno. I know a lot Fallout fans hate FO2's Reno because it sort of breaks with the setting and has silly stuff like becoming a porn star or boxing champion, but there were so many factions and various quest to do there, it basically is the meat in the middle of the game.

Re-synching with the hive mind.. game is hella better after Klamath.
 

Obama Phone 3

Learned
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
486
Location
Drunk Raptor Zone
Everyone's so busy whining about the Temple of Trials that they forgot to mention it's suckier uncle, the fucking rat warren in Klamath. Oh man did that suck, walking through a rubble maze and killing rats one and two at a time. Fuck. That.

The game does get a lot better after Klamath of course. There is a lot of cheesy stuff and throwaway jokes, and a lot of ways to break the game in terms of balance. But I love Reno. I know a lot Fallout fans hate FO2's Reno because it sort of breaks with the setting and has silly stuff like becoming a porn star or boxing champion, but there were so many factions and various quest to do there, it basically is the meat in the middle of the game.

Re-synching with the hive mind.. game is hella better after Klamath.

San Francisco is what sucked, not Klamath. What a let down compared to Reno.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,733
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Fallout's setting can die in a fire. It spawned the most annoying fanboys on the internet.

Klamath is just kinda boring, at least you'll already have some equipment and skills/perks to deal with it. Temple of Trials is analpain because it's at the very beginning, sapping your will to play a new character. Fallout 3's chargen confirmation at the very end of the tutorial area allowing you to keep a save at that point would have been a godsend here.
 

zero29

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
136
Fallout's setting can die in a fire. It spawned the most annoying fanboys on the internet...
yeah, sure, fallout fanboys are the worst there is. can't think of any other fanbase that's even more annoying. oh, wait...
422714-fallout-fallout-my-little-pony.png
 

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