Fallout Fallout 3 isn’t as bad as you think...

[laclongquan]

Fallout 3 is bad because, by itself, it's a quite lite RPG, coupled with many strong RPG elements. Light weight story and quest, heavy exploration, combat, tactic, etc...

Nowaday, what save Fallout 3 is Tale of Two Wasteland project where it allow F3 and DLC can be played in FNV, thus a combo of heavy story quest in FNV save F3, as well as plentiful of extra helps.

Dont believe me? Open F3 and its DLC with FNVEdit. The freaking quest section is nearly empty, by RPG standard, as well and many other section. You can say all the story and quest from F3 and all its DLC combined into one FNV vanilla without taking in FNV DLC. That's how light it is.
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Also, F3 was designed, originally, to be very resource intensive that only possible to play on PC with all the doodads. So to be able to port for console, they need to cut down on many many things. Thus F3 play feels quite... lacking.

For F3 in full glory, you need a great PC, and full graphical asset upgrade (aka HD mods). original F3 is just... bad~

Mind you, even that only mean F3 is a okay RPG. To really save it, it need TTW to be played on FNV engine. It need all the helps it can get from that direction.

 

[Fargus]

LOL by todays standarts even Fallout 3 don't seem like a bad game. Can't wait for Bethesda to grace us with their newest masterpiece... Skyfield or something.

 

[Comte_II]

LOL by todays standarts even Fallout 3 don't seem like a bad game. Can't wait for Bethesda to grace us with their newest masterpiece... Skyfield or something.

Dude I am starting to feel all old games come full circle here.

 

[Sykar]

FO 3 is irredeemably... retarded.

 

[turkishronin]

Childhood is idolizing Fallout New Vegas
Adulthood is realizing that Fallout 3 makes more sense.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Fallout 3 is bad because, by itself, it's a quite lite RPG, coupled with many strong RPG elements. Light weight story and quest, heavy exploration, combat, tactic, etc...

Nowaday, what save Fallout 3 is Tale of Two Wasteland project where it allow F3 and DLC can be played in FNV, thus a combo of heavy story quest in FNV save F3, as well as plentiful of extra helps.

Dont believe me? Open F3 and its DLC with FNVEdit. The freaking quest section is nearly empty, by RPG standard, as well and many other section. You can say all the story and quest from F3 and all its DLC combined into one FNV vanilla without taking in FNV DLC. That's how light it is.
--------
Also, F3 was designed, originally, to be very resource intensive that only possible to play on PC with all the doodads. So to be able to port for console, they need to cut down on many many things. Thus F3 play feels quite... lacking.

For F3 in full glory, you need a great PC, and full graphical asset upgrade (aka HD mods). original F3 is just... bad~

Mind you, even that only mean F3 is a okay RPG. To really save it, it need TTW to be played on FNV engine. It need all the helps it can get from that direction.

I was intrigued by TTW once upon a time but I can't be arsed doing the install routine anymore and keeping updated with the updates. Gimme a full, pre-installed installation and I'll happily do it.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

LOL by todays standarts even Fallout 3 don't seem like a bad game. Can't wait for Bethesda to grace us with their newest masterpiece... Skyfield or something.

This is actually very true. I tried to play Metro Exodus EE a while back and I cried for FO3 (not that I would actually play FO3 in this day and age)..

 

[Zarniwoop]

LOL by todays standarts even Fallout 3 don't seem like a bad game. Can't wait for Bethesda to grace us with their newest masterpiece... Skyfield or something.

Fallout 3 was never a bad game, it was just a FUCKING TERRIBLE "FALLOUT."

If they presented it as a spinoff, something set in the same universe etc it would have been great and missed a lot of the criticism.

Spiritual successor

Inspired by

From the creators of*

They had lots of options but they tried to present it as an actual continuation of the series. That's why it's shit.

 

[__scribbles__]

What's cartoonish about a slaver, pillaging faction? I don't think you would call it cartoonish much if you were up in one of their crosses.

The problem isn't in the Legion's subject matter but in their execution, no pun intended. The game doesn't allocate enough time to exploring how a Legion-aligned society would function in a time of peace, but instead on how badass and terrifying they are for crucifying everyone and breaking weaker men like twigs. The most we get are a few off-handed remarks.

More like "pay-to-make-the-beginning-a-joke". The game is easy enough without the pre-order DLC.

They're paid DLC, and they grant early-mid game advantages. I'm pretty sure you could clear out the NCRCF with only stuff that's granted via the DLC.

How? The reason you get shot in the head is literally because of the political plot (i.e. Benny looking to take over New Vegas, much like you can do later in the game).

You misunderstand. My issue isn't that there's a political plot by one of the characters, but rather that the story just drops getting revenge on Benny for a politically-oriented plotline halfway through with no indication. The Courier has no good reason to be involved in the business of the NCR or Legion, and the reasons they do give are retarded, especially if you've been working against them.

Like classic Fallout's is much different. It's literally just a timer set to game over/towns die.

I agree with everything else, which is either a problem already present in classic Fallout or carried over from Fallout 3/GameBryo. But these points you bring up are pretty tardy.

I agree that classic Fallout's world changing according to your actions could've been done better, but even disregarding Necropolis getting attacked without any indication New Vegas' world is borderline static. The most I can think of is that if you've done Three-Card Bounty, 1st Recon moves to Forlorn Hope and assist you in assaulting Nelson. But if you haven't, the situation with Nephi or Violet or Cook-Cook never ever gets resolved or has any impact. They keep killing NCR soldiers and the NCR shrugs it off and moves on. HELIOS One operating at one percent efficiency never gets solved. Fantastic has no plans for redirecting the panels and turning them on despite being a short jog from where he is in the building. The NCR never retakes Nelson or upgrades their radio security and Andy's leg never heals. The inhabitants of Primm just endlessly walk around in the Vikki & Vance without any food, and the gangsters never kill them. The NCR never gets more manpower and heads in, they just sit and look for hostiles. Basically, nothing at all happens in the Mojave without the player's involvement, and what little that happens devolves into a permanent stalemate.

 

[Sykar]

LOL by todays standarts even Fallout 3 don't seem like a bad game. Can't wait for Bethesda to grace us with their newest masterpiece... Skyfield or something.

Fallout 3 was never a bad game, it was just a FUCKING TERRIBLE "FALLOUT."

If they presented it as a spinoff, something set in the same universe etc it would have been great and missed a lot of the criticism.

Spiritual successor

Inspired by

From the creators of*

They had lots of options but they tried to present it as an actual continuation of the series. That's why it's shit.

Nonsense. FO 3 is a terrible game and a retarded Fallout game. It has no redeemable qualities, not even as a hiking simulator. I still have no idea what kind of brain damage it takes to enjoy something that has no coherrent world building, infantile dialogue and one of the most nonsensical stories I ever had the displeasure of experiencing if only up to Megaton where it already breaks down into complete and utter retardation.
This game was clearly made for the dumbfuck AWESOME button crowd as evident by the fact that gameplay and RPG elements are completely brain dead.

 

[Laz Sundays]

New Vegas has done something that not even the original Fallouts managed for me, it made me “get” the setting and love it immensely

The original Fallout had some whacky humor and situations, but it could also be very grim and dark in its apocalyptic setting, while Fallout 2 sort of took things too far with the tongue in cheek and cultural references but sort of lost a bit of the tone of what Fallout is

And that made me realize something
Fallout 3 is not as bad as I thought it was; for all of ita inane dialogues, bad writing, stupid quests, lifeless characters and retarded plot it sort of fits on this idea I had; Todd and Bethesda looked at Fallout and instead of embracing the concept of an apocalypse where the world is turned upside down and humanity shows its worst survival instincts sort of got it wrong and focused on the tongue in cheek aspects of the setting
Of course people in Bethesda’s Fallout Universe would live right next to a dud nuclear bomb, have a secret society for rescuing androids, a goth wannabe vampire gang, Peter Pan, super mutants would turn into mindless orcs, child ghouls could remain inside a fridge for 200 years, a crazy scientist would get his kicks over cross dressing as a little girl and torturing his fellow vault companions.... they played it for laughs

Yes

Todd and company decided that Fallout was more about exploding headshots, robot man vs antlady superheroes fighting in the middle of the street...

It is like a few months ago I went to the movies with a girl I was dating to see Bladerunner 2049 and while I was transfixed by the cinematography, setting and characters she thought it was really bad, complicated and basically didn’t understand any of it so she called it “the computer threesome movie”... I mean that is exactly what she took from it; for all of its themes of what it means to BE human for her it was just a kinky weird movie

I look at New Vegas (which can have some less than stellar dialogues and quests) as the capo labore of Obsidian; they finally had the chance to do Fallout right and frankly they ran away with it. They played up to the standards of the older games and took a serious approach as an homage to those first 2 games and it shows, to be it is not only the best Obsidian game of all time but the best Fallout game period

So where does this leave Fallout 3?
It is stupid, inane and simplistic because it was meant to be like that, nobody in Bethesda tried to do a “bad” Fallout game, they did what they though was Fallout
Their Fallout universe is whacky, ultra violent and tongue in cheek and New Vegas is completely different, mostly played straight with a few very well placed Dark humor themes
The fact both games run in the same engine and technically had the same base system goes to show the vastly different ideology behind both games

We here at the Codex we turn our noses at Fallout 3 but that whacky humor did vibe with a lot of people because of the same way some people find Adam Sandle funny while others are Dave Chapelle fans, one is aimed at low brow tits and farts jokes while the other parodies modern trends and issues through comedy... it is not that one is bad and the other is good, it is simply that they have different audiences
Right now I am enjoying New Vegas tremendously, savoring each second of the experience in ways the older Fallouts didn’t quite managed to hook me and though this experience I can look a bit more forgiving on Fallout 3 because I finally understand where is it coming from

OP, I gotta tel you: the only thing your post made me sympathize with is your ex-grill. And while we're at it, I might add that if you took her to see the ORIGINAL Bladerunner - you would still have a grill.

The only reason why F3 was popular and played is because of that basic, mindless freeform exploration kick that everyone gets. It's what made GTA popular. It's the type of game that, incidentally, allows player to walk around attacking things and climbing stuff - over and over and over again. That's it. That is why it "vibed" with people. That's why it simply works.

 

[Silverfish]

My issue isn't that there's a political plot by one of the characters, but rather that the story just drops getting revenge on Benny for a politically-oriented plotline halfway through with no indication. The Courier has no good reason to be involved in the business of the NCR or Legion, and the reasons they do give are retarded, especially if you've been working against them.

This has always been my biggest stumbling block with NV as well. I've played the game quite a bit over the years, but only ever finished the main storyline once for this very reason (and even that one time wasn't very thrilling). The best NV experience is "Track down and kill Benny, deliver the platinum chip to Mr. House and then fuck off and do side missions for 20 hours."

 

[__scribbles__]

The best NV experience is "Track down and kill Benny, deliver the platinum chip to Mr. House and then fuck off and do side missions for 20 hours."

Exactly. It's not like there are any downsides to ignoring the main plot line. It's somewhat obscure, but it reminds me of a little game from 1997 by Black Isle Studios called "Fallout" that I've heard actually has consequences for ignoring the story for too long.

 

[Yosharian]

Fallout 3 is pretty shit and so is BR2049, but it's ok for you to have shit taste, no need to feel bad

LOL by todays standarts even Fallout 3 don't seem like a bad game. Can't wait for Bethesda to grace us with their newest masterpiece... Skyfield or something.

This is actually very true. I tried to play Metro Exodus EE a while back and I cried for FO3 (not that I would actually play FO3 in this day and age)..

Metro Exodus there's another giant pile of steaming shit, how low that series sank after a promising start

 

[Sykar]

At least we got an awkward sex scene from Metro!

 

[Robotigan]

Fallout was always a little silly. Fallouts 1 and 2 feel more grimdark because

1) You first played it when you were 12 and just internalized a lot of the goofy bits like Super Mutants and the Brotherhood of Steel.

2) Pretty much every game from that era had an uncanny creepiness because of the pixelated/low poly assets, uncomfortably empty spaces, and compressed audio. Even today, AAA horror games get mogged by sub-indie, my-first-game type projects.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Fallout was always a little silly. Fallouts 1 and 2 feel more grimdark because

1) You first played it when you were 12 and just internalized a lot of the goofy bits like Super Mutants and the Brotherhood of Steel.

2) Pretty much every game from that era had an uncanny creepiness because of the pixelated/low poly assets, uncomfortably empty spaces, and compressed audio. Even today, AAA horror games get mogged by sub-indie, my-first-game type projects.

You have got to be kidding.

Fallout was a synthesis of 1950's science fiction visions of post-atomic war combined with comic book sensibilities and retro gothic design. It is so astonishingly perfect that despite its age it remains one of the most brilliantly designed computer games of all time. The RPG math and system is flawless and incredibly engaging. Few games have ever even approached the perfection of this game. The music, sound effects and writing is fantastic and complements the rest effortlessly.

Fallout led directly to Fallout 3 which was incredible. Fallout 3 led to Fallout NV, the best post-apocalyptic computer game of all time.

Then Bethesday destroyed the franchise with Fallout 4. Just as the bloody bodies of the victims of this disaster were being saved by emergency personnel and pulled free of the wreckage, Todd Howard barreled in with his klown car Fallout 76 and somehow completely erased what was possibly the most valuable IP in the computer game industry. Future fallout sequels could have been worth billions. It beggars belief but it is hard for me to imagine ever playing a new Fallout game given how badly they have ruined it.

 

[Glop_dweller]

Fallout was a synthesis of 1950's science fiction visions of post-atomic war combined with comic book sensibilities and retro gothic design. It is so astonishingly perfect that despite its age it remains one of the most brilliantly designed computer games of all time. The RPG math and system is flawless and incredibly engaging. Few games have ever even approached the perfection of this game. The music, sound effects and writing is fantastic and complements the rest effortlessly.

I can agree with (and brofist) this part, but not the rest, sadly.

FO3 was irredeemable, FO4 is a FO3 spin-off; both are franken-shooters. NV is making the best out of FO3.

 

[Gastrick]

Fallout was always a little silly. Fallouts 1 and 2 feel more grimdark because

1) You first played it when you were 12 and just internalized a lot of the goofy bits like Super Mutants and the Brotherhood of Steel.

2) Pretty much every game from that era had an uncanny creepiness because of the pixelated/low poly assets, uncomfortably empty spaces, and compressed audio. Even today, AAA horror games get mogged by sub-indie, my-first-game type projects.

Silly game

 

[LJ40]

Fallout was always a little silly. Fallouts 1 and 2 feel more grimdark because

1) You first played it when you were 12 and just internalized a lot of the goofy bits like Super Mutants and the Brotherhood of Steel.

2) Pretty much every game from that era had an uncanny creepiness because of the pixelated/low poly assets, uncomfortably empty spaces, and compressed audio. Even today, AAA horror games get mogged by sub-indie, my-first-game type projects.

Silly game

"a little silly" you illiterate moron. Go listen to the brahmin say "Moo, I say" and tell us that Fallout 1 didn't have it's share of silly.

 

[Gastrick]

"a little silly" you illiterate moron. Go listen to the brahmin say "Moo, I say" and tell us that Fallout 1 didn't have it's share of silly.

I'm responding to his claim that Fallout 1 was only grimdark because of the primitive graphics and that it was played by kids.

 

[LJ40]

"a little silly" you illiterate moron. Go listen to the brahmin say "Moo, I say" and tell us that Fallout 1 didn't have it's share of silly.

I'm responding to his claim that Fallout 1 was only grimdark because of the primitive graphics and that it was played by kids.

Then you probably should have mentioned that instead of focusing on the silly game part. Maybe stop eating those delicious paint chips for just long enough to properly express your thoughts.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

Is that literally a polished turd that someone is holding a few posts up?

 

[Sigourn]

The problem isn't in the Legion's subject matter but in their execution, no pun intended. The game doesn't allocate enough time to exploring how a Legion-aligned society would function in a time of peace, but instead on how badass and terrifying they are for crucifying everyone and breaking weaker men like twigs. The most we get are a few off-handed remarks.

The game does more than enough to flesh out the Legion as more as a horde of barbaric enslavers and crucifiers. Not as much as it fleshes out the NCR, but certain enough.

They're paid DLC, and they grant early-mid game advantages. I'm pretty sure you could clear out the NCRCF with only stuff that's granted via the DLC.

And thankfully so. Imagine that shit being given away for free. It totally ruins the early-game playthrough. And like I said, it's not needed whatsoever, hardly "pay to win". It's unsustainable as an argument.

You misunderstand. My issue isn't that there's a political plot by one of the characters, but rather that the story just drops getting revenge on Benny for a politically-oriented plotline halfway through with no indication. The Courier has no good reason to be involved in the business of the NCR or Legion, and the reasons they do give are retarded, especially if you've been working against them.

The player is the Courier. That's the one thing New Vegas did right. Instead of forcing the player to play the role of someone who loves their community (FO1, FO2, FO3), the player is given free will to do as they please. If the player feels involved in the main quest, then that's all justification you need to do it. If you don't feel involved, then don't do it.

Maybe you blasted the Legion in Nipton, but then afterwards felt compelled enough to talk to Caesar and learned more about his worldview. Likewise, you thought the NCR were all goody-two-shoes, until you learned how corrupt and inefficient they are. And so forth.

My only complaint about the main quest is that the four paths feel similar in their quests, as instead of looking for the aid of specific factions that would align to their viewpoints, they seek the aid of every single faction, no matter how dumb it may be for some of them to join you (and this is because all that is needed to convince the Boomers, for instance, is for them to like you).

I agree that classic Fallout's world changing according to your actions could've been done better, but even disregarding Necropolis getting attacked without any indication New Vegas' world is borderline static. The most I can think of is that if you've done Three-Card Bounty, 1st Recon moves to Forlorn Hope and assist you in assaulting Nelson. But if you haven't, the situation with Nephi or Violet or Cook-Cook never ever gets resolved or has any impact. They keep killing NCR soldiers and the NCR shrugs it off and moves on. HELIOS One operating at one percent efficiency never gets solved. Fantastic has no plans for redirecting the panels and turning them on despite being a short jog from where he is in the building. The NCR never retakes Nelson or upgrades their radio security and Andy's leg never heals. The inhabitants of Primm just endlessly walk around in the Vikki & Vance without any food, and the gangsters never kill them. The NCR never gets more manpower and heads in, they just sit and look for hostiles. Basically, nothing at all happens in the Mojave without the player's involvement, and what little that happens devolves into a permanent stalemate.

There's so much shit going on in New Vegas that what you are asking would make it the best RPG ever made, bar none.
Fallout didn't do it, so why hold it against New Vegas (a much bigger game)?

 

[__scribbles__]

The game does more than enough to flesh out the Legion as more as a horde of barbaric enslavers and crucifiers. Not as much as it fleshes out the NCR, but certain enough.

It's night and day between the NCR and Legion. The NCR gets multiple NPCs and quests highlighting its flaws and counterarguments to democracy and how brahmin-barons have too much power, together with locations and conversations relating to agriculture, economy, and food. The Legion gets a trader and a monologue.

And thankfully so. Imagine that shit being given away for free. It totally ruins the early-game playthrough. And like I said, it's not needed whatsoever, hardly "pay to win". It's unsustainable as an argument.

You pay for equipment that trivializes the early-mid game. That's pay-to-win. And it's not necessary? That isn't a defense. I can choose not to do the bad quests in the game, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. We can't judge a game's quality if we deliberately omit its flaws.

The player is the Courier. That's the one thing New Vegas did right. Instead of forcing the player to play the role of someone who loves their community (FO1, FO2, FO3), the player is given free will to do as they please. If the player feels involved in the main quest, then that's all justification you need to do it.
If you don't feel involved, then don't do it.

It doesn't matter if the player feels involved, it's that the NCR and Legion will ALWAYS pardon the player and invite them to work with them, even if you worked against them, for them, or ignored them. They don't have a consistent or justifiable reason to get the player to work with them. My courier might only want Benny and doesn't care at all about the fate of the Mojave, or a criminal who does everything for a political reason, and I'll still get the same message from the factions.
In Fallout 1/2/3 you, the player, and you, the character, at least had a surface-level connection with your objective. Introducing the wasteland and the plot through a believable setup, and you built your character in whatever way you wanted off of that base(Hell, you could even join the Master in Fallout 1 and got a unique ending for it). New Vegas doesn't give a believable motivation for you or your character like the other games. It might sound liberating or freer, but it also means that the player literally has to invent their own reason to care about the plot.
And as I said before, ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

There's so much shit going on in New Vegas that what you are asking would make it the best RPG ever made, bar none.
Fallout didn't do it, so why hold it against New Vegas (a much bigger game)?

I'm not asking for New Vegas to react to every little choice your character makes, but I am asking for not every situation being set up in a way that requires a third-party intervention to break the Status Quo, which almost EVERYTHING in New Vegas is. And if questions like "What if two enemies right next to each other fought each other" are too complex for it, then it should be more focused.
Even if it falters a lot in the side-quests, Fallout had urgency and pressure for the player to complete the main quest and had consequences for neglecting them. That's why Fallout generally gets a pass, even if it feels pretty artificial in situations like Gizmo vs. Killian.