Fallout Fallout 4 Thread

[Reinar]

Fuck frogs. Giant leeches in camo that spit acid, incapacitating you because that's what Bethesda would do.

Anyway, I hope the most likely upcoming new FO4 Monster Mod learns what the word restraint means. But who am I kidding, there are going to be 20 versions of bulletsponge mutants and a bunch of creatures that make no fucking sense.

They're not going to discuss how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game with talking mutants and ghouls. You're gonna need to use your imagination.

 

[DosBuster]

check out this beauty - trailer graphics in comparison to how game looks on ultra settings in final product.

I think that light was only there for the trailer it's way too.. highlighting of what is in the final game just a simple street.

That being said it does look like they did remove some clutter to free up memory and don't forget that is what optimization mainly consists of - removing needless things that fill up memory.

 

[Zerginfestor]

I think that light was only there for the trailer it's way too.. highlighting of what is in the final game just a simple street.

That being said it does look like they did remove some clutter to free up memory and don't forget that is what optimization mainly consists of - removing needless things that fill up memory.

Too bad people on Nexus has found out that most of the game is poorly optimized. Apparently the very weapons are needlessly large in memory, as if someone was too lazy to compile them to shrink down the demand on just using the said weapons. It really feels like half ass work has been done on the environment and weapons.

 

[DosBuster]

I think that light was only there for the trailer it's way too.. highlighting of what is in the final game just a simple street.

That being said it does look like they did remove some clutter to free up memory and don't forget that is what optimization mainly consists of - removing needless things that fill up memory.

Too bad people on Nexus has found out that most of the game is poorly optimized. Apparently the very weapons are needlessly large in memory, as if someone was too lazy to compile them to shrink down the demand on just using the said weapons. It really feels like half ass work has been done on the environment and weapons.

Can I get a source on that first point? I'm not exactly sure what that person means. The game does suffer from a problem with how DirectX 11 handles draw calls, while the GPU is able to handle the draw calls it ends up being slowed down by the CPU/DirectX's inability to process draw calls as fast as the GPU can hence the fps drop. So the low fps in cities isn't 100% Bethesda's fault, luckily DirectX 12 fixes this issue.

 

[Reinar]

I think that light was only there for the trailer it's way too.. highlighting of what is in the final game just a simple street.

That being said it does look like they did remove some clutter to free up memory and don't forget that is what optimization mainly consists of - removing needless things that fill up memory.

Too bad people on Nexus has found out that most of the game is poorly optimized. Apparently the very weapons are needlessly large in memory, as if someone was too lazy to compile them to shrink down the demand on just using the said weapons. It really feels like half ass work has been done on the environment and weapons.

Can I get a source on that first point? I'm not exactly sure what that person means. The game does suffer from a problem with how DirectX 11 handles draw calls, while the GPU is able to handle the draw calls it ends up being slowed down by the CPU/DirectX's inability to process draw calls as fast as the GPU can hence the fps drop. So the low fps in cities isn't 100% Bethesda's fault, luckily DirectX 12 fixes this issue.

Probably still Bethesda's fault... http://www.gamedev.net/topic/666419-what-are-your-opinions-on-dx12vulkanmantle/#entry5215019

 

[DosBuster]

I think that light was only there for the trailer it's way too.. highlighting of what is in the final game just a simple street.

That being said it does look like they did remove some clutter to free up memory and don't forget that is what optimization mainly consists of - removing needless things that fill up memory.

Too bad people on Nexus has found out that most of the game is poorly optimized. Apparently the very weapons are needlessly large in memory, as if someone was too lazy to compile them to shrink down the demand on just using the said weapons. It really feels like half ass work has been done on the environment and weapons.

Can I get a source on that first point? I'm not exactly sure what that person means. The game does suffer from a problem with how DirectX 11 handles draw calls, while the GPU is able to handle the draw calls it ends up being slowed down by the CPU/DirectX's inability to process draw calls as fast as the GPU can hence the fps drop. So the low fps in cities isn't 100% Bethesda's fault, luckily DirectX 12 fixes this issue.

Probably still Bethesda's fault... http://www.gamedev.net/topic/666419-what-are-your-opinions-on-dx12vulkanmantle/#entry5215019

That doesn't really say it was Bethesda's fault at all, it does highlight the issues that graphics programmers have to deal with however.

 

[Hirato]

I think that light was only there for the trailer it's way too.. highlighting of what is in the final game just a simple street.

That being said it does look like they did remove some clutter to free up memory and don't forget that is what optimization mainly consists of - removing needless things that fill up memory.

Too bad people on Nexus has found out that most of the game is poorly optimized. Apparently the very weapons are needlessly large in memory, as if someone was too lazy to compile them to shrink down the demand on just using the said weapons. It really feels like half ass work has been done on the environment and weapons.

Can I get a source on that first point? I'm not exactly sure what that person means. The game does suffer from a problem with how DirectX 11 handles draw calls, while the GPU is able to handle the draw calls it ends up being slowed down by the CPU/DirectX's inability to process draw calls as fast as the GPU can hence the fps drop. So the low fps in cities isn't 100% Bethesda's fault, luckily DirectX 12 fixes this issue.

From what I've seen on the Nexus, modders have reduced VRAM usage significantly by just re-encoding textures into the appropriate format; it sounds like he's referencing that.
It wouldn't be a Bethesda game if the optimisation wasn't absolutely atrocious.

 

[circ]

Dude, Bethesda doesn't know the first thing about optimization. Or else, explain to me how a person can optimize something as simple as Bethesda textures (that aren't impressive in the first place) in a few minutes by just using free software with no quality loss with the right settings, for remarkable performance improvements. True of every modern Bethesda game. Or there was that time when a Script Extender or Unofficial Patch dev asked a Bethesda dev some programming question that was fairly simple, which they hadn't bothered implementing and the dev was stumped. Which I don't have a source for as I forget where I read it. Maybe an Arthmoor quote somewhere. Or the fact that a single guy by just upping the memory block size was able to fix major problems Bethesda has had in their memory management. Or that every Bethesda game since Oblivion has had a script extender because the script engine is so fucking worthless and lacks basic functions. Or the story of how one of the first things Obsidian did when getting the FO3 code was clean up and make sensible the dialogue tool.

Get the fuck outta here with your Bethesda crocodile tears man.

 

[Lemming42]

We're getting absolutely roasted.

 

[Jozoz]

Because "Stop hating on a game I enjoy" is a much better thing to say than "Stop playing shitty games that I hate".

 

[Metro]

I will say the load times seem a bit excessive on my system: i5 and 770. Not cutting edge anymore but certainly good enough to near max a game designed for consoles.

 

[Old One]

We're getting absolutely roasted.

I couldn't care less what people enjoy as long as they don't rape Fallout's corpse in the process.

But that's why ignorance is bliss.

 

[pippin]

We're getting absolutely roasted.

 

[Hirato]

I will say the load times seem a bit excessive on my system: i5 and 770. Not cutting edge anymore but certainly good enough to near max a game designed for consoles.

A friendly reminder that this is for some reason tied to framerate.

 

[Orma]

I'm forcing V-sync via nvidia control panel but it doesn't seem to work for some reason

 

[Metro]

I will say the load times seem a bit excessive on my system: i5 and 770. Not cutting edge anymore but certainly good enough to near max a game designed for consoles.

A friendly reminder that this is for some reason tied to framerate.

Thanks for that. Fucking Bethesda.

 

[typical user]

We're getting absolutely roasted.

"Stop saying eating shit is unhealthy even when it tastes so good!"

Oh my, some people are retarded when they bring up that argument.

 

[Zerginfestor]

We're getting absolutely roasted.

"Stop saying eating shit is unhealthy even when it tastes so good!"

Oh my, some people are retarded when they bring up that argument.

Where's the sauce on this comic? I'd love to see the fanboy comments down below trying to justify their terrible strawman logic. No one cares if you're having fun with the game, even I have some form of fun every now and then on the shitty game just because of the mindless 'killing' scenario it provides. However, to call it an 'awesome' game is basically showing how much of an idiot the person is. Makes sense as well, since the person looks like a fucking kid. Funny enough, the very comic proves the Codex and NMR's viewpoint on the game: it's just endless, senseless hurr durr combat that's not even good.

From what I've seen on the Nexus, modders have reduced VRAM usage significantly by just re-encoding textures into the appropriate format; it sounds like he's referencing that.
It wouldn't be a Bethesda game if the optimisation wasn't absolutely atrocious.

Yup, that's the one. the Weapon texture optimisation project was one of the popular mods that the modder explains how the weapons are over-using the memory, and seems that someone in Bethesda didn't compile them correctly.

 

[circ]

I will say the load times seem a bit excessive on my system: i5 and 770. Not cutting edge anymore but certainly good enough to near max a game designed for consoles.

A friendly reminder that this is for some reason tied to framerate.

Thanks for that. Fucking Bethesda.

Problem with unlocking is that physics get fucked up because... Bethesda. Unless you use another way to enable vsync.

Also, you might get a bit faster loading times with the following - in Fallout4Custom.ini and Fallout4.ini find [Archive] and if sResourceDataDirsFinal= has anything after the =, delete it and just leave the former, and save the file(s). Unless you've already done that. That's also one prereq for enabling mods. Apparently it loads all those dirs that are there at every area transition because.. Bethesda.

 

[DosBuster]

Spoiler

I think that light was only there for the trailer it's way too.. highlighting of what is in the final game just a simple street.

That being said it does look like they did remove some clutter to free up memory and don't forget that is what optimization mainly consists of - removing needless things that fill up memory.

Too bad people on Nexus has found out that most of the game is poorly optimized. Apparently the very weapons are needlessly large in memory, as if someone was too lazy to compile them to shrink down the demand on just using the said weapons. It really feels like half ass work has been done on the environment and weapons.

Can I get a source on that first point? I'm not exactly sure what that person means. The game does suffer from a problem with how DirectX 11 handles draw calls, while the GPU is able to handle the draw calls it ends up being slowed down by the CPU/DirectX's inability to process draw calls as fast as the GPU can hence the fps drop. So the low fps in cities isn't 100% Bethesda's fault, luckily DirectX 12 fixes this issue.

From what I've seen on the Nexus, modders have reduced VRAM usage significantly by just re-encoding textures into the appropriate format; it sounds like he's referencing that.
It wouldn't be a Bethesda game if the optimisation wasn't absolutely atrocious.

Dude, Bethesda doesn't know the first thing about optimization. Or else, explain to me how a person can optimize something as simple as Bethesda textures (that aren't impressive in the first place) in a few minutes by just using free software with no quality loss with the right settings, for remarkable performance improvements. True of every modern Bethesda game. Or there was that time when a Script Extender or Unofficial Patch dev asked a Bethesda dev some programming question that was fairly simple, which they hadn't bothered implementing and the dev was stumped. Which I don't have a source for as I forget where I read it. Maybe an Arthmoor quote somewhere. Or the fact that a single guy by just upping the memory block size was able to fix major problems Bethesda has had in their memory management. Or that every Bethesda game since Oblivion has had a script extender because the script engine is so fucking worthless and lacks basic functions. Or the story of how one of the first things Obsidian did when getting the FO3 code was clean up and make sensible the dialogue tool.

Get the fuck outta here with your Bethesda crocodile tears man.

The Texture optimisation project is fucking bullshit, here's a good explanation from the creator of NifSkope (a popular TES and Fallout modding) that explains why it's bullshit:

> do those "texture optimisation" mods on the nexus actually don't degrade the visuals way more than intended by their authors ?

The actual issue is that "texture optimization" is a misnomer when they're actually removing optimizations by taking the file out of the texture-optimized BA2 and forcing the engine to load it as a loose file. So, the entire file has to be read in order to access the lower mips. The whole point of the texture BA2 optimization is that the lower mips are split from the higher mips. This means that for nearly all things you are using much less VRAM until you get close, when the higher resolution mips need to be loaded.
The "texture optimization" mods are undoing all of this work by forcing the entire file into VRAM regardless of distance.

If a texture is being loaded on a building 5 cells away, it only needs one of the lowest mip levels. Let's say it is split up in the BA2 like so:



Chunk1: Mip0-1 @ 2048 and 1024

Chunk2: Mip2-6 @ 512 through 32

Chunk3: Mip7-11 @ 16 and below



The game loads only the Chunk3 containing Mips 7 through 11, so the 2048x2048 file is essentially being treated like a separate 16x16 file at that distance. Chunk1 and Chunk2 are not loaded.



These so called "texture optimizations" are taking the 2048x2048 file and reducing it to 1024x1024, and then adding it as a loose file. This loose file is always loaded fully into VRAM regardless of distance. So this house 5 cells away is now taking up ~666KB with the 1024x1024 "optimization" instead of **312 bytes** with the optimized BA2, assuming nothing closer than that house is using the same texture. That's ~2000x the memory.



If you were halving the texture sizes and then sticking them into an optimized BA2 maybe then there would be some kind of argument.



----



We could also look at some of the "incredible fabrications" of the mod:



> Vanilla textures are HUGE 2048x2048 (2k) ground textures and 2048x2048 plant textures 4096x2048 tree textures and so on (for example) most computers cannot handle this.



2K is suddenly huge? And for TERRAINS of all things? Ludicrous. This person probably doesn't even know the term "texel density".



> I have replaced the high-resolution textures with properly compressed and resized textures



With no description of what was wrong about the compression before nor any kind of quantification of the extent to which it had to be fixed. Translation: 99% of them were already properly compressed, but I'm putting that word here to make it sound like I'm doing more than I really am.



> seeing massive improvement!

> a VERY good fps boost

> it is the BEST fps boost you can get



** Citation Needed **



> So apparently leaving vanilla files in my mod is against the rules. so ill be editing about 5600 files or looking into why they are "exactly identical to vanilla" so to say the least ill be very busy for the next little while..



Padding numbers? Either way it was funny. You claim it's not removing any optimizations yet there were **5600 files** identical to vanilla.



----



Anyway, yes, if you're taking almost all of the game's textures and making them 1/4th the filesize, you might eventually break even with the tradeoff between the loss of optimizations and the overall lower size of all the textures. Needless to say this doesn't change the fact that the mod is removing said optimizations. That cannot be argued against.

 

[Kazuki]

 

[circ]

...

My example involved Skyrim, which I should have mentioned. It of course used the .bsa format and with that it was the reverse - compressed (.bsa) files would load slower. Fallout 4 uses the new improved .ba2 format, which doesn't change the fact that the textures are poorly optimized in the first place or that once the GECK is released, modders will start using .ba2.

But Beth shills gonna shill.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, especially guns damage increases with your guns skill is useless, a holdover from an older era that is Fallout 3.

 

[DosBuster]

...

My example involved Skyrim, which I should have mentioned. It of course used the .bsa format and with that it was the reverse - compressed (.bsa) files would load slower. Fallout 4 uses the new improved .ba2 format, which doesn't change the fact that the textures are poorly optimized in the first place or that once the GECK is released, modders will start using .ba2.

But Beth shills gonna shill.

Wut? Textures are poorly optimized? They're not, Fallout 4 was made with the user having 4096mb of VRAM in their system which served as the basis for what resolution the textures were set up and other things that take up vram. This is what is causing the fps drops:

So, with draw calls the problem is that the CPU bottlenecks the GPU, let's assume the CPU can process draw calls at a speeds of 33.3ms (30fps) and the GPU can render them at a speed of 16.6ms (60 fps), now because of this discrepancy when you reach a large mass of draw calls that the cpu has to process your framerate has to be bottlenecked in order to keep both CPU and GPU in sync. Consoles tend to handle draw calls faster which is an interesting fact.

The issues lines in two places: One, in that Bethesda's games have to render a LOT at once, the major impact being shadows. Dynamic Shadows (not pre-baked) are very expensive and while they are optimized moderately well a larger issue lies with DirectX (this next part is the real reason why Fallout 4 seems to be unoptimized)

Directx9/10/11 can only handle 6000 draw calls whereas the upcoming DirectX12 will be able to handle 600'000 draw calls, which as you can clearly see is going to fix a lot of performance issues. Granted, there are some optimization issues in Fallout 4, the Godrays seem to have some weird dependency on RAM timings, however, that's Nvidia technology so who knows.

 

[shihonage]

We're getting absolutely roasted.

Are we? Whoever made this cartoon has never played Fallout. Likely never played a single RPG made in 20th century. It all falls apart with his "complex, value based skills that take hours upon hours to improve". That phrase is loaded.

1) It's gibberish technospeak meant to feign knowledge on subject he knows nothing about. WTF are "complex value-based skills" ? Why would you phrase it that way?
2) The main strengths of Fallout were C&C, world reactivity, world cohesiveness, and dialogue. Not its skill system, which was rather ordinary. But someone who hasn't played it, wouldn't know.
3) The whole "hours upon hours" thing is a generic insult the moderntard applies to "old-school RPGs". Despite it not being true in Fallout, of course. It was not a grindy game at all. But someone who has not played it, wouldn't know.

Tards gonna tard.