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- Jan 28, 2011
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This argument about whether Bethesda counts as "true AAA" is kind of cringe, but very much agree with the assessment that they were a poorly run publisher.
That's irrelevant, it makes no difference to me, as the consumer, whether you spend €5 million or €50 million if the end product looks like it offers that €50 million experience, a comparable scope and level of finish. As consumers, we're only interested in the development budget because it typically indicates the scope of the product on offer, but it's the latter that interests us, not the former in and of itself.Oblivion was made by a team of around 70 people. It was not even kind of what would be considered a AAA title unless you’re just using AAA as some stupid buzzword to mean every game released by a major publisher that was sold for the average retail price...which is kind of how some people seem to use it. It’s stupid to call Oblivion a AAA title when it’s coming out alongside games like Grand Theft Auto 4 and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. Nobody would say a movie that cost $100 million and a movie that cost $10 million fall into the same budgetary umbrella. You wouldn’t even say a $40 million or $50 million thing fell under the same budgetary umbrella as something that cost $10 million. Bethesda was not making big budget games until maybe Starfield. Fallout 4 had a team of around 100 people, Assassion’s Creed games at the same time had teams around 1,000 people. These two things do not occupy the same space.
That's irrelevant, it makes no difference to me, as the consumer, whether you spend €5 million or €50 million if the end product looks like it offers that €50 million experience, a comparable scope and level of finish. As consumers, we're only interested in the development budget because it typically indicates the scope of the product on offer, but it's the latter that interests us, not the former in and of itself.Oblivion was made by a team of around 70 people. It was not even kind of what would be considered a AAA title unless you’re just using AAA as some stupid buzzword to mean every game released by a major publisher that was sold for the average retail price...which is kind of how some people seem to use it. It’s stupid to call Oblivion a AAA title when it’s coming out alongside games like Grand Theft Auto 4 and Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. Nobody would say a movie that cost $100 million and a movie that cost $10 million fall into the same budgetary umbrella. You wouldn’t even say a $40 million or $50 million thing fell under the same budgetary umbrella as something that cost $10 million. Bethesda was not making big budget games until maybe Starfield. Fallout 4 had a team of around 100 people, Assassion’s Creed games at the same time had teams around 1,000 people. These two things do not occupy the same space.
Kingdom Come: Deliverance was made for something like €15-20 million, by that definition is should be a "AA" title, and yet I see absolutely nothing in terms of what it offers that makes it a "budget" title compared to, I dunno, Skyrim or Deus Ex: Human Revolution. If Warhorse managed to achieve a similar grade of experience for a fraction of the budget, all the better for them. Similarly, despite Larian's multiple studios around the world, you can be damned certain they spent a lot less making Baldur's Gate 3 than BioWare do on whatever they crap out of late, but that didn't translate to a compromise in the experience (well, the interfaces are atrocious, but that's not a budgeting issue) and indeed it's sold as a "full price" AAA game.
In reality, "AAA" is first and foremost a price segment classification which serves marketing purposes, same way that film has the term "blockbuster", they both indicate the highest tier of entertainment in their respective mediums (and movies have their own exceptions, see District 9's $30 million budget). In normal circumstances, this should correlate to production budgets and competing products in the genre, the scope of the investment scales with what you can ask at the till, though sometimes you have exceptional circumstances, either for the better (Kingdom Come: Deliverance punching above its weight) or for the worse (No Man's Sky's devs lying through their fucking teeth). Bethesda had a somewhat similar thing going, their specialised tools and expertise allowing them to keep a relatively lower headcount while their titles, at least since Oblivion, were absolutely "blockbusters" - hell, Fallout 4, for example "broke Grand Theft Auto V's record for having the most concurrent online players in a Steam game not developed by Valve."
A flagship Bethesda release is most certainly an "event" in videogaming and even Starfield's reception proves that - when was the last time people spent three months raging over an Assassin's Creed being shit?
You're using some really weird metrics and comparisons and I'm not gonna even venture into how reliable the data you're using is, since the number of people working on resident evil is as irrelevant as you can get. Since Daggerfall, their games share most of these characteristics: huge scope which was completely outside of reach for vast majority of other titles, extensive media coverage with multiple awards won and strong presence on different events, extensive marketing which was very noticeable even in my neck of the woods (that already at a time when 90%+ games had zero marketing), huge numbers of units moved and accordingly large communities, usage of famous actors, recognition outside of gaming community, push for multiplatform angle with great success and so on. I'm not sure on what planet do you need to live in to look at crpg/gaming landscape at a time of daggerfall's/morrowind's/oblivion's release and not think they were as big as you can possibly be.
Only they weren’t big stuff. Their games sold well, but these games weren’t huge on the production side of things for their time. And they especially weren’t before Oblivion. Morrowind was around 40 people and was made by a Bethesda on the verge of going under. The original 1996 Resident Evil had a team almost double the size of Morrowind. The first Devil May Cry game has double the staff size of Morrowind. About as many people worked on the original 1991 Street Fighter 2 as worked on Morrowind.
Those credits also list every role a single voice actor does as its own unique credit for that count. Although it’s fairly easy to find Todd or someone from Bethesda saying: Fallout 4 had a development team of a little over 100 people. Which was not a huge team for a game coming out in 2015.
For a comparison, Final Fantasy 13 comes out in 2009 and had 200 people working on it at its peak. The game had more artist on the team than Fallout 4 had people developing Fallout 4.
Yeah, that makes it look like they didn't do much marketing at all besides game journos and conventions for Skyrim at the beggining.Completely unrealistic ratio, to put it mildly.I read that for Skyrim it was 85 millions for development, 15 for marketing.
With F4 they upped their marketing game by the order of the magnitude.
Yeah, that makes it look like they didn't do much marketing at all besides game journos and conventions for Skyrim at the beggining.Completely unrealistic ratio, to put it mildly.I read that for Skyrim it was 85 millions for development, 15 for marketing.
With F4 they upped their marketing game by the order of the magnitude.
Typical indie studio marketing approach. A real AAA studio would've used Leno or Letterman instead, right?
You said that "Bethesda doesn't make AAA games" based on their relatively smaller headcount and budgets. I disagreed because "AAA" is just videogaming's equivalent of the film industry's top-tier "blockbuster" market classification (which often but not always correlates directly to staffing) and that Bethesda's releases have certainly made that kind of splash.What the fuck are you even going on about?
avalanche makes AA games, not that it can't look better than AAA:
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And why make a car game instead of silver shroud you can also play as ordinary character?
Who cares about avalanche n+1 deferred looking rendering engine that did fuck all with its realtime focus while John's RAGE has unmatched vista and distance rendering? Give me RAGE 1 with prerender weather anytime over "alsoran" deferred engine games.
Homefront 2 has prerender and it was obviously worth it . Will be the same on mobile, realtime AAA was just corner cutting.
(...)You’re planning on contracting a studio that makes open world sandbox games to do a new title. Do you have them make a follow-up to the older thing that sold terribly and isn’t well remembered by the few people that even played it, or do you have the same studio make some open world sandbox action game in the setting that’s sold over ten million copies for each of the three games you’ve released in that series so far? I’d say the smart money would be on Avalanche and id making a Fallout: Something. But Bethesda is apparently run by morons, so they had them make Rage 2.
(...)
You don't have meaningful weather to act as sandbox feature-set.
(...)
A couple looks & feel-wise:Any recommendations besides
This is a terrible idea. Have you played modders quests for 3, NV, and 4?Beth should switch over to making survival/crafting systems and a large world map and letting modders fill in the quests and storylines like the RPG Maker series. This would also sidestep technical limitations for consoles and all the obvious censorship that the government forced into their games (like, for instance, Oblivion not having levitation and Starfield not having FUCKING ALIENS).
Nobody wants to buy Fallout 4, but if the "Fallout 4 Creation Kit" were the actual game and the main quest was just a tech demo like Shadowrun Returns, it would have gone over better. Making the Creation Kit more like Halo's Forge Mode should have been the focus, not giving the protagonists voice acting. The settlement system and AI improvements would be trivially easy to refine into a more systems-based game like Dwarf Fortress.
Wow, Beth is really trying to milk the Enclave. I guess they saw the fan demand.Enclave Remnants
Enclave Remnants brings the Pre-War cabal, The Enclave, into the Fallout 4 storyline. In this new quest, “Echoes of the Past,” can you stop The Enclave from spreading their dangerous ideology and gaining a foothold in the Commonwealth?
Along with workshop items and the Enclave Colonel uniform, we are including the following previously released Creation Club content:
- Enclave Weapon Skins
- Enclave Armor Skins
- Tesla Cannon
- Hellfire Power Armor
- X-02 Power Armor
- Heavy Incinerator
TL;DR: Todd is about to next-gen your Fallout 4 with shit you never asked for at the cost of breaking the shit you did want.
We have Enclave-stopping at home."Stop the Enclave from spreading and gaining a foothold in the commonwealth"
It has been there since day 1And all modders rejoice
Said no one ever
This is probably to inject the paid mod system like they have in Skyrim