X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[Marobug]

Didn't say that. Just found your initial arguments retarded. Sure, GUI can always be improved upon but original UFO didn't need much in that department. And requiring a minimap so as not to get lost or because you didn't know there's an actual map that you can use to move the camera where ever on it...

The minimap was just an idea, I didn't say the interface was crap because it didn't have one or that it was necessary to play the game. And the "lost" part in case you hadn't realized referred to not knowing where your units were in the map exactly, forcing you to scroll to the position you want or press the "next soldier" button until you selected the right one. Sure there's the map screen but wouldn't it be easier if it was just a minimap instead of having to go back and forth between the map menu whenever you want to move the camera instantly? There's a reason why pretty much every modern strategy game uses a minimap instead of a map menu like xcom.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Didn't say that. Just found your initial arguments retarded. Sure, GUI can always be improved upon but original UFO didn't need much in that department. And requiring a minimap so as not to get lost or because you didn't know there's an actual map that you can use to move the camera where ever on it...

The minimap was just an idea, I didn't say the interface was crap because it didn't have one or that it was necessary to play the game. And the "lost" part in case you hadn't realized referred to not knowing where your units were in the map exactly, forcing you to scroll to the position you want or press the "next soldier" button until you selected the right one. Sure there's the map screen but wouldn't it be easier if it was just a minimap instead of having to go back and forth between the map menu whenever you want to move the camera instantly? There's a reason why pretty much every modern strategy game uses a minimap instead of a map menu like xcom.

Well, most actually use a zoomable map nowadays (like Battle for the Bulge or Hearts of Iron 3) instead of utilizing two different screens. Minimap is handy, no doubt about that but UFO doesn't really need it with its small maps and fast scrolling speeds.

 

[Marobug]

Well, most actually use a zoomable map nowadays (like Battle for the Bulge or Hearts of Iron 3) instead of utilizing two different screens. Minimap is handy, no doubt about that but UFO doesn't really need it with its small maps and fast scrolling speeds.

Then again, I never said it needed a minimap.

Uh, you guys know there's a huge chasm in between "best UI evar" and "herp derp worst POS US", right?

I'd say it was best interface ever...for 1992. When you play any xcom knockoff or even play JA 2 or Silent Storm you appreciate the interface a lot more.When you play some bioware shit post BG you will think it must have been made by a genius.

Ignoring the obvious flip flopping, that last sentence... Jesus christ. Do you mind spelling what's wrong with the interface in those games, mr. "consolized interface" ?

 

[Marobug]

You basically said nothing. "oh it's so bad I don't even need to explain myself" kind of arguments won't work and wtf do you mean "in SS you have to click a button to do anything" ? Silent storm is a mediocre game but as far as the interface goes I don't see anything inherently wrong with it ?
Also JA2 does have a minimap and both interfaces take a lot less space than xcom's.

And what's wrong with "bioware shit post BG" or whatever that's supposed to mean ?

 

[Claw]

Grinding 30 missions to find one that has an alien commander who you need to finish the game, shit.

I'm sorry, WHAT?
I 'm not even sure I've played 30 ground missions total on my last playthrough of EU, and I don't rush my games. I like to take it nice and slow.
I am however smart enough to know how to capture an alien commander. Well, mostly. I actually did try to capture a commander on a muton battleship, possibly more than once.

Admittedly I know the game fairly well. But on my first playthrough, finding out as much as possible about the aliens was interesting. I cannot even imagine "grinding" 30 missions. I might grind alot for elirium. I was pretty unlucky with crashed UFOs in my last playthrough, every power source destroyed again and again. Still 30 is a big, big number. Ridiculously big.

PS:
I would change alot about the game given the chance, by way of improvements and expansions of gameplay, not removing "tedious" elements.

 

[Banned Alt]

 

[Vival]

The old mutons were so cheesy looking. I'm happy they are next gen, now!

btw. did you see the pic of that muton commander? pretty cool!

 

[Average Manatee]

Also JA2 does have a minimap and both interfaces take a lot less space than xcom's.

Are you by any chance the idiot in charge of UI design for web browsers? It sure sounds like you would appreciate the 5% of screen space saved by hiding major functions one wants to use every 10s under several layers of menus

Grinding 30 missions to find one that has an alien commander who you need to finish the game, shit.

I'm sorry, WHAT?
I 'm not even sure I've played 30 ground missions total on my last playthrough of EU, and I don't rush my games. I like to take it nice and slow.
I am however smart enough to know how to capture an alien commander. Well, mostly. I actually did try to capture a commander on a muton battleship, possibly more than once.

Constantly getting muton battleships + not save scumming. Thankfully nowadays we have xcomutil which can automate battle results for us, otherwise I would have given up far before the 100th UFO (I think I got around 115 before I got to cydonia).

 

[Marobug]

Silent storm is a mediocre game but as far as the interface goes I don't see anything inherently wrong with it ?

You are a tedious troll/retard.

It's not bad in SS it's just not as good. Click attack button, selecting attack type. Target guy. Attack. Repeat 4 million more times.

Or just mouseover and attack like in xcom and JA.

The only button you need to click in xcom is the next dude button, maybe once in a blue moon the center button or minimap if you forget where one of your guys is.

With JA the squad management is a huge pain, I find it doubtful you ever played it if you think otherwise and no one to date has disagreed. Forgot it had a minimap, but it's not usually necessary.

wat. As far as I remember in SS you could attack just by clicking on your enemy.
What about squad management in JA2 is a huge pain ?

Also you haven't explained the "bioware shit post BG" bit yet.

 

[Surf Solar]

The old mutons were so cheesy looking. I'm happy they are next gen, now!

btw. did you see the pic of that muton commander? pretty cool!

 

[Monk]

Yes I would eventually be sick of playing another good X-Com game too, but that's not a "problem". I want a new game anyway. It's like with a band I love, I want a new album, I'm not gonna listen to the same one over and over, my whole life. And I don't understand your : "the first album was good, why would you want a new one, wouldn't it be more of the same ?". You sure must be perplexed by AC/DC fans.

Well, there were four other games in the franchise, plus fan-made, several inspired by the game, one with more FPS features, and an upcoming one that's said to be faithful to the original. And then there's this remake. More on this point below.

As for the drop of complexity, I don't understand why you don't get the chess players being pissed at seeing their game turned into checkers. Neither do I get your constant : "checkers are good, they're turn based strategy, why the butthurt ?".

Actually, my point was, "chess is available, according to some, close to perfect, and there will be two remakes, with one resembling checkers (which is fine for those who have difficulty playing chess and probably even for those who are tired of playing chess), so why the butthurt?"

So basically, we don't understand each other it seems. Your lack of aggressivity seems to indicate genuine puzzlement so I'm sorry if I can't explain both the "want for more" and the 'being pissed at getting a dumbing down instead" any better, but I'm through trying to explain what is so obvious to me. Maybe someone else (not necessarily the user going with that name) will find better words.

What I am wondering about is, what do you want in the new album? Because from what I've read, the best thing that can be done for that is to put together the band's best hits and add only a few tracks.

In the meantime, I'll wait for Xenonauts, which indeed seems closer to the kind of game I want, thank God for independant devs and regret that the "big ones" constantly choose to dig up old franchises I love and turn them into a shadow of their former selves, instead of creating their own brand of shit.

I'm not sure, but I think there will be no major differences between the original and Xenonauts, i.e., assuming that the original is close to perfect.

 

[Monk]

And why doesn't chess have a minimap? Do I look like I have a photographic memory?

Perhaps Monk is Chris England?

Sorry, I'm not. I even had to look up the name before realizing that he's connected to Xenonauts. I only found out about Xenonauts after Haba mentioned it, which is why I asked about the butthurt earlier. Since it turns out that another remake is being made, and will likely resemble the original with some improvements that should satisfy fans, then there's no reason to be alarmed by the remake discussed in this thread.

In this case, we have this remake, Xenonauts, and the Xcom shooter. That's a lot for fans.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Actually, my point was, "chess is available, according to some, close to perfect, and there will be two remakes, with one resembling checkers (which is fine for those who have difficulty playing chess and probably even for those who are tired of playing chess), so why the butthurt?".

Close to perfect doesn't mean infinitely replayable, that would be "perfect". Fuck that would be "holy" even.
If you name a mere checkers game "chess", you'll get smug checkers players and pissed chess players. Is it that hard to understand ?

Are you a Borg to so completely misunderstand basic human feelings and reactions ? Your obsession with perfection and your "you should welcome assimilation, resistance is futile" attitude certainly suggest it.

 

[Black]

MY LIFE FOR CYDONIA

 

[Haba]

Yeah, they are kind of missing the whole perfect "supersoldier" angle of Mutons. I think it is because the devs themselves are fat nowadays, so their creations reflect their own obesity.

Ugh. And the new monkey-like (and sounding) Sectoid is just criminal.

But I guess this is one area where they are faithful to the originals - every X-Com game has had progressively worse looking enemies (The Donald Ducks of Apocalypse... *shudder*)

 

[janjetina]

Actually, my point was, "chess is available, according to some, close to perfect, and there will be two remakes, with one resembling checkers (which is fine for those who have difficulty playing chess and probably even for those who are tired of playing chess), so why the butthurt?".

Close to perfect doesn't mean infinitely replayable, that would be "perfect". Fuck that would be "holy" even.
If you name a mere checkers game "chess", you'll get smug checkers players and pissed chess players. Is it that hard to understand ?

Are you a Borg to so completely misunderstand basic human feelings and reactions ? Your obsession with perfection and your "you should welcome assimilation, resistance is futile" attitude certainly suggest it.

A comparison between chess and chess with certain pieces removed would be even more appropriate. How about chess with no knights? It would alienate chess players and fail to entice checkers players, just like a remake of a strategy / tactical game aimed at the audience complementary to strategy / tactical game players.

 

[Jaedar]

Huge text, no apparent timeflow control, no launch ships button and "Scan for UFOs" button.

This does not seem good. It looks pretty though.

 

[Haba]

Suck on that, GUI fags

Also;

The Fyraxian alien suggestion made me laugh. I've been considering adding a new alien race for a while, but we'll see if I have time or can find an appropriate niche for them. Maybe they'd have unlimited ammo or something.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Hm, Xenonauts has progressed nicely. Is the AI improving? It looked non-functional in the videos I have seen.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I always get at least one of my Xenonauts killed in the first mission. This is most likely due to me sucking terribly at those kind of games (although still loving them) and not AI being smart. It did got better that it was 2 months ago though.

Still, there are some issues with map generation - I get an alien embedded in UFO wall from time to time.

 

[damicore]

The old mutons were so cheesy looking. I'm happy they are next gen, now!

btw. did you see the pic of that muton commander? pretty cool!

 

[Monk]

There's no butthurt, just people discussing a game.

And we're now talking about Xenonauts, which supports my point.

 

[Monk]

Close to perfect doesn't mean infinitely replayable, that would be "perfect". Fuck that would be "holy" even.
If you name a mere checkers game "chess", you'll get smug checkers players and pissed chess players. Is it that hard to understand ?

Are you a Borg to so completely misunderstand basic human feelings and reactions ? Your obsession with perfection and your "you should welcome assimilation, resistance is futile" attitude certainly suggest it.

So you don't want Firaxis to use the same name as the original, and you don't want those who have never played the original think that this remake is what defines the franchise. If so, then I understand.

In my case, originally, I was going to complain, too, but after Haba mentioned Xenonauts, then I found no reason to do so. In which case, I'll try Xenonauts, the upcoming FPS, and this remake from Firaxis.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Xenonaut guys used the new game as a pretext to throw in the towel, when they lose interest. On the other hand their screenshots look too advanced for that. But it has happened before http://ufotts.ninex.info/

I guess it's wait and see. If this game (Xenonauts) gets finished I will definitely buy it.

But right now I have the feeling they have no idea when they plan to finish it. I don't think the game will be released in 2012. Somehow I get this vibe that even in 2014 it will still be 'coming in about six months'.
If you want to finish at a certain point you don't make vague promises but a definite schedule. You may fall behind a few months, But if you fall behind years there is something wrong.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

So you don't want Firaxis to use the same name as the original, and you don't want those who have never played the original think that this remake is what defines the franchise. If so, then I understand.

Yes, that's basically it. Of course I would rather have Firaxis do a tactical game that I find good, but I don't hold it against them not to. But to name it X-Com...

It's the same as the Fallout drama when Bethesda made Fallout 3.