Game News First work in progress screenshot of Wasteland 2 revealed

[ghostdog]

This thread is oozing of delicious butthurt.

 

[A user named cat]

Sketch version.. because why not?

 

[Infinitron]

Listen to VD. He's an industry insider.

While I'm not, I imagine there are way too many variables to consider to make blanket statements about dev times.

18 months seems really tight, but then I had a look at the reported release dates of Ultima 6 (June 1990) and U7 (April '92). While not complex in terms of mechanics, they were absolutely huge games with hundreds of NPCs, gazillion dialogue lines, and the engine and all art assets had to be done from scratch, and the game tested on a whole new generation of hardware. That's less than 2 years of dev time for an all new game, assuming parts of the team weren't already working on the sequel before U6 was done which is likely. But then they didn't have the tools and automations at their disposal that are available now. U7 pt 2, sort of an expansion, followed less than a year later. And that was when EA was allegedly already messing heavily with the development.

Good point though I'd note that U6 was kind of an unfinished game, and U7 was a complete game but rather buggy even after a patch.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Who gives a fuck if they finish WL2 in 18 months? Seriously, if they take a few months longer, do we really care?

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I don't think anyone does. The issue is that the Kickstarter funds can only buy them roughly 18 months of development time (or so it seems), maybe a few months more if Fargo throws in some of his own cash and uses Inexile's other channels of income to finance Wasteland 2.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

They wanted 900K for 18 months dev time and got > 3M. That should suffice even if it takes a bit longer.

 

[Brother None]

Yip. 1M would have sufficed for 18 months. And while they've been hiring people, I'm not seeing a huge influx, especially of full-timers. They've budgeted in a lot more part-timers it seems, but it doesn't look like they tripled their dev team to burn through that cash in 18 months. I'm not sure though. I guess I'll ask, I am pretty curious.

 

[Morkar Left]

I'm completely ignoring it because there is no fucking way that having to code demos (what, from scratch?) and scrambling to finish "arbitrary" milestones (i.e. delivering previously agreed on content) will double the time required to make a game.

There really seems to be a huge amount of time invested in such marketing gimmicks. I recommend the Gothic 3 artbook for that. It's basically a report about the whole production of Gothic 3 and it's mentioned several times how artists had to polish up screenshots for press releases, draw complete new pictures and even a unique magazine cover. Plus they had to spend a lot of time to create a press demo of the engine which was basically a lot of wasted scripting and programming time.

I was surprised how much the devs have to spend time on marketing gimmicks when there are usually huge marketing compartments available especially for well uh marketing. It's like ordering your engineers around to do the sales job instead on working on the product while your sales manager just looks busy.

 

[Kahlis]

My turn. In addition to fixing the dread orange, I've added some crude ground coverage (I know the perspective is wrong), which I think helps considerably in making the game feel less stylized and more like the grittier settings of our precious prerendered games. I've also added some additional definition to some building surfaces and the ground. What I won't admit is that the image is half size, because I was too lazy to find acceptably high resolution texture references especially when Fargo's original screenshot is already all gross and lossy.

Really, density of detail is what does it - if the final game has more detail overall rather than looking as "clean" as in the original screenshot, then I think the style wouldn't seem as lighthearted. It doesn't necessarily have to be super grungey.

 

[made]

U7 was a complete game but rather buggy even after a patch.

Sure, but what ambitious RPG was ever bug-free regardless of development time? Troika games with their 3-year dev cycle have been mentioned earlier, and we all know how much good that did them.

U6 was kind of an unfinished game

Was it? I didn't feel that way to me, apart from maybe the gargoyle lands that were relatively underdeveloped and that one Skara Brae story arc that wasn't resolved until U7.

 

[Brother None]

Really, density of detail is what does it - if the final game has more detail overall rather than looking as "clean" as in the original screenshot

That will be the case, yes.

Heh, seems someone from the Codex already mailed Fargo. You sneaky devils.

Nothing new. They intend to use the Unity store and fan support where they can, and the intense pre production prior to Kickstarter helps. Fargo seems to expect to hit his goal for release. But "there is no way I'll let a bad Wasteland go out and will take the time it needs".

So. Yip.

 

[Infinitron]

Was it? I didn't feel that way to me, apart from maybe the gargoyle lands that were relatively underdeveloped and that one Skara Brae story arc that wasn't resolved until U7.

Rather than repeat myself, I'll just quote some things I said on Facebook recently:

Problems with U6 that come to mind:

-Unevenness of the world. Some cities feel strangely emptier than others. Paws is a bustling merchant metropolis, Moonglow has like three people in it.

-Weird NPCs all over the place that feel like unimplemented quests. Some dude with the Codex symbol emblazed on his forehead. A Polynesian tribal that comes from an island that doesn't actually exist in the world. NPCs that make reference to living under the reign of Mondain and his minions(!) And of course the infamous unsolvable Quenton quest that was crudely tied up in the sequel.

-Bad art design. The colors are all weird, objects are not recognizable.

-And of course, the GUI is famously bad, with its small view window, rendering the game nearly unplayable by modern standards (the sequel couldn't be more different!)

On the topic of the game's art design:

For example, let's look at the first thing you see in the game.

Look at the way the color of the red floor merges with the Avatar and Iolo's capes and the red carpet.
I just found the game's color palette to be garish.

Then you had inventory items that looked like unidentifiable lumps of matter, such as the torches.

Another thing is how it's possible to teleport straight to the Gargoyle Lands as soon as you start the game, using the Orb of the Moons. WTF? The game just feels half-baked. Like they didn't quite know how to work with this new type of highly detailed open world they'd created.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Sketch version.. because why not?

Here's WL2 with bloom and the badass new tilt-shift filter in CS6 aww yeah modding has fixed this image

 

[Ion Prothon II]

Sketch version.. because why not?

Here's WL2 with bloom and the badass new tilt-shift filter in CS6 aww yeah modding has fixed this image

Good work, but it lacks additional postprocessing, to fit the modern standards and feel more like postapo. Let me fix it.

Close enough.

 

[made]

Son, you're nitpicking. I disagree with half those points and could quickly explain away the other half. But no matter. Could it have used some more polish? Definitely. What game couldn't? (except Witchers, hurr) But unpolished is not the same as unfinished.

One thing, however:

Another thing is how it's possible to teleport straight to the Gargoyle Lands as soon as you start the game, using the Orb of the Moons. WTF?

As it bloody should be. It's an open world game where you can go wherever you want if you can get there. Of course that kind of design leaves it open to exploits and loopholes but that's just the way it is and for some even part of the appeal. What should happen instead according to you? Gargoyle lands magically open only once the mainquest allows? Orb has amnesia and only remembers the destination at the end of the game? That's next-gen design.

Now tell me, do Gargoyles react fittingly to the fact that the Avatar suddenly appears in their lands out of nowhere or do they stand around bugged and broken? It's as if devs had foreseen this eventuality and planned accordingly.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Let me fix it.

Pretty good. Not edgy enough for the Codex though. Here, let me fix it:

 

[Ethan Duvall]

Here is my improved version of wip screenshot. As you can see I fixed all issues

 

[Morkar Left]

Ethan Duvall wins thread.

 

[Infinitron]

I'll be so full of rage if they deliver a shoddy game like Ultima VI or Ultima VII!

And that says it all about the people who are very upset about this image, I guess.

Except I'm one of the folks defending the image.

made
And yes, Ultima VI was shoddy compared both to its predecessor and its successor. Origin were inventing a new type of world design philosophy and they weren't quite adept at it yet. Polish matters.

 

[Kane]

it looks a bit like fallout 3. van buren fallout 3.

 

[EG]

it looks a bit like fallout 3. van buren fallout 3.

So it looks like an early snapshot . . .

Excellent.

 

[Brother None]

And yes, Ultima VI was shoddy compared both to its predecessor and its successor. Origin were inventing a new type of world design philosophy and they weren't quite adept at it yet. Polish matters.

Bro you better step off bro. <3 Ultima VI.

Ok fine, I only love it because I owned a big box with floppies of it as a kid whereas I played the others mostly later as I was rediscovering cRPGs, so it's mostly nostalgia. But STEP OFF BRO, STEP OFF.

(PS: I lost the box it had a cloth map and everything)

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, another weird thing about the game is how Julia and Mariah don't know who you are. o_O Overall I got the feeling that (at least some of) the game's writers weren't very familiar with the Ultima mythos, such as it was.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Alan Pavlish too.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/total-recall__

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah I made a thread about this in General Gaming: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/schwarzenegger-games.74462/