Deus Ex GMDX: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v9 Released!

[KlauZ]

So now i have a theory why people not so eager to make visual mods for dx. I`ve spent 3 minutes to make a test version of HDTP texture but after 6 hours of googling and messing with the editors i still have no idea how to test it in the game.
Also Versalife mosaic turned out to be actual chinese ornament, so i`ve made a draft version of texture, where do i send it?

 

[Ash]

http://www.gravity-world.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4094

What part are you stuck on? Texture Import? The initial learning process with software is always the most frustrating, but once you got the basics it is smooth sailing.

 

[KlauZ]

For now i`ve decided to work with HDTP since it looked like it will be simpler. Or it isn`t?

But yeah, I dont understand how to pack texture to already existing pack, I could find only a tutorial about how to create a new one.

Also

i`ve made a draft version of Mosaic, where do i send it?

 

[Ash]

"For now i`ve decided to work with HDTP since it looked like it will be simpler. Or it isn`t?"

I assume they used the same methods (STC3) to achieve higher resolutions. Not actually certain what HDTP did though.

But yeah, I dont understand how to pack texture to already existing pack, I could find only a tutorial about how to create a new one.

You're not supposed to. Create a new package. If you need the vanilla mosaic to also go into the package then open UnrealEd, find the texture and click "export". Or I can just send it to you if you want.

An alternative to messing around with these high res hacks would be to create segmented textures. The floor Mosaic could be two separate 512x256 textures than can be joined together in the level editor. Much better than vanilla which was one singular 256x128 tex that was stretched badly to cover the floor area.
It would probably be better to do this unless you intend to make many textures for GMDX as opposed to just the one.

i`ve made a draft version of Mosaic, where do i send it?

To me via PM and a free file hosting service.

 

[Ash]

From the Neogaf thread Cassar posted:

Made it to Hong Kong in GMDX, but think I'm going to switch to lethal and not so stealthy. I appreciate the changes to make the gameplay less cumbersome, but the AI is much too perceptive. They can hear footsteps from 2 rooms away, spot you and instantly fire at you from a rooftop 200 feet away when they have their back to you, see right through vents, instantly know you're there if it takes any more than 1 shot to kill someone with a silenced weapon. And since this game doesn't have in-depth light-based stealth like Thief, it becomes the worst kind of quick save quick load stealth.

Since I'm doing completely non-stealth I haven't run into that, but it doesn't surprise me. I've seen the same thing in other mods that purport to "improve AI" before. A bunch of super perceptive aim bots don't qualify as good AI.

FFS. Absolutely none of that is even true, and even if it were, AI behavior does scale based on difficulty level.

 

[Dev_Anj]

It would be good to know how they developed that perception. While I know it isn't true they must have formed that observation based on their experiences, and finding the factors behind these issues can help in spotting problems that are a bit "hidden".

 

[Black]

"AI is much too perceptive."
The AI which lacks peripheral vision?
Neofag gonna fag.

 

[RK47]

At least they barked.

 

[eXalted]

Hmm, this got me thinking - is there a difference between shooting an enemy that hasn't seen you yet with a silencer and without one? It both cases if they are nt one hitted, they instantly know where you are and open fire.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Out of curiosity - can you smash doors with upgraded aug, the one that increase melee damage?

NeoFAG - casuals nest. Horrible retards creatures. Avoid them whenever you can.

 

[Ash]

It would be good to know how they developed that perception. While I know it isn't true they must have formed that observation based on their experiences, and finding the factors behind these issues can help in spotting problems that are a bit "hidden".

OK, lets take him seriously for a second, because there is some truth in there:

the AI is much too perceptive.

See Black's post. They have p.tame perception even on the highest difficulty mode.

They can hear footsteps from 2 rooms away

Footsteps, no. Jumping off a building and slamming onto a sheet of metal which you the player can even hear how extremely loud that is, yes. This is a good thing.

spot you and instantly fire at you from a rooftop 200 feet away when they have their back to you

AI don't have eyes on the backs of their head, unless they're in the combat state, which means you have already been spotted. Same as vanilla. Instantly locking on and shooting you? Vanilla. In GMDX, snipers take their time to aim on easy difficulty, which is obviously what he or she should be playing on.

see right through vents

I assume he means chain-linked vent gratings. Again vanilla, and again, why is this a bad thing, exactly?

instantly know you're there if it takes any more than 1 shot to kill someone with a silenced weapon.

Vanilla. And same as nearly every other game. And it's not a problem, it's a good thing. How easy do they want it to be?

it becomes the worst kind of quick save quick load stealth

Save scummer. Obviously incompetent.

So what action do I take based on this? Maybe I should make snipers take time to aim on normal and realistic too? I don't see any reason to change shooting someone immediately alerting them to your location. So yeah, it's the whining of an incompetent modern gamer used to having the odds overwhelmingly in their favor. Anyhow, I'm going to make snipers take their time on normal and realistic. Sorry to those here that like to play on realistic and like snipers to actually be a threat.

 

[Dev_Anj]

You're making some assumptions there, like the fact that the AI is not that perceptive (it is for him, obviously not for you, Black or people familiar with sneaking or AI behavior), that he jumps down onto metal sheets and is noisy, and that his comment specifically refers to vents with chain links. Again, these assumptions don't help with finding problems, they only further encourage a closeted viewpoint towards your work.

Maybe one way you could help avoid complaints is make it clearer what each difficulty does in game and point out after a short simulated test which difficulty is best suited for them(maybe somehow track their performance in the vanilla training section). You could also try and teach about the new game mechanics the players have access to a bit more directly(the tooltips help but aren't reliable).

Also, like I had pointed out earlier, there are some legitimate problems with stealth, like with how greasels could spot me even though I was far away and in darkness. I'm pretty sure there's no mention of transgenics being able to see in the dark in the lore.

 

[Ash]

only further encourage a closeted viewpoint towards your work.

Would you kindly fuck off? Assumptions are all I have to go with based on a lack of information, unless you want to invite him into the discussion. There is no "closeted viewpoint". I play the game on easy (default for testing). I play the game on hardcore (when I play seriously). I wrote the damn code.

No, AI are for a matter of fact unperceptive compared to certain other stealth games. Additionally, difficulty modes exist. If he finds their poor perception to be too much, he should lower the difficulty.

Maybe one way you could help avoid complaints is make it clearer what each difficulty does in game and point out after a short simulated test which difficulty is best suited for them(maybe somehow track their performance in the vanilla training section). You could also try and teach about the new game mechanics the players have access to a bit more directly(the tooltips help but aren't reliable).

Or maybe I can not waste my time doing all that just for one guy complaining because he can't take the heat of higher difficulty modes, not compromise a damn thing, and just stress players should pick the difficulty mode right for them as I already have done?

This thread the past couple of pages has consisted of the codex praising the damn AI as the best thing about the mod. If some Assassin's Creed fanboy then entered the thread and gave his shitty opinion based on his shitty expectations, would I have a "closeted viewpoint" for telling him to fuck off for not playing on lower difficulty modes when I have made it clear that higher difficulty modes are not for everyone?

 

[Dev_Anj]

Calm down. I do acknowledge he's wrong about the AI, especially since I have a lot of experience with the original's, GMDX's and stealth games' AI in general. But telling people to "fuck off" just because they happen to not like some aspects of the mod or are wrong with how they express or form their opinion is not going to help your cause. Besides, it's NeoGAF, do you seriously expect good players from there? One of the largest gaming forums is inevitably going to have many players with mediocre or poor skill levels, especially since most of them are indeed fans of modern games that tend to be shallow, just like you said.

 

[KlauZ]

His post gave me suspicion that he played revision instead of gmdx.

Another microissue: Flare`s flames are emitting to far inside the model and clipping it probably should be near the top of it. Also is possible to make glowing flare to be holdable?

 

[Dev_Anj]

His post gave me suspicion that he played revision instead of gmdx.

That would be a great explanation actually.

 

[Ash]

Calm down. I do acknowledge he's wrong about the AI, especially since I have a lot of experience with the original's, GMDX's and stealth games' AI in general. But telling people to "fuck off" just because they happen to not like some aspects of the mod or are wrong with how they express or form their opinion is not going to help your cause. Besides, it's NeoGAF, do you seriously expect good players from there? One of the largest gaming forums is inevitably going to have many players with mediocre or poor skill levels, especially since most of them are indeed fans of modern games that tend to be shallow, just like you said.

It's more you that has frustrated me because you're always on my case with inane shit. I apologize though. I know you mean well, I think.

I'm not compromising the design or my time for people that punch above their weight/difficulty class, beyond what is necessary. I am a believer in the old school standard of picking a difficulty at the start and having to live with it, so it is only natural that some will not make the right choice for them, and there will be complaints as a result.

 

[Dev_Anj]

It's more you that has frustrated me because you're always on my case with inane shit. I apologize though. I know you mean well, I think.

Apology accepted. If I've been a bit too persuasive, it's because I genuinely feel that you over think some elements of this mod, like the difficulty levels or balance of level design paths. It's obvious that I think most of GMDX is well thought out, but there are a few subjective issues here and there that could be touched upon, like the transgenics in the caves or the taser darts not feeling that interesting to use.

 

[Ash]

Also is possible to make glowing flare to be holdable?

It is, but the flare effect doesn't follow the flare every frame precisely when the player moves. However, maybe it's just because it is a slow method and a big chain of objects attached/following eachother. (flare effect following the flare, flare following the player, and with all other modifiers like running animation adding further locational offsets).
I'll consider looking into it again, because it would be great and last time I tried (two years ago or so now) I wasn't as good at programming and I didn't give the attempt to sort it much effort.

but there are a few subjective issues here and there that could be touched upon, like the transgenics in the caves or the taser darts not feeling that interesting to use.

And I do acknowledge those issues. I get a lot of feedback and suggestions, half get ignored (or attempted to be ignored), half get taken on board. Neogaf nonsense falls into the former.

 

[Ash]

Hmm, this got me thinking - is there a difference between shooting an enemy that hasn't seen you yet with a silencer and without one? It both cases if they are nt one hitted, they instantly know where you are and open fire.

Nope, it's a vanilla oddity, and one I don't intend to change. It's common in games and for good reason. You already have huge advantage over dumb bots in intelligence, tools, the ability to reload etc. If we could shoot NPCs without them knowing your location it will be mole-popping city more than it already is. You get one shot at a silent ranged takedown, if you fuck it up and hit their leg or whatever, be prepared to run and hide or fight.

At most I will delay the time NPCs emit distress by 1/3 a second or so, so that you get a little more time to make a double headshot with the stealth pistol/silenced assault rifle before other nearby NPCs are aggravated, but that will be inconsistent with the audible scream they give out when shot.

 

[Black]

You ventured on neofag and now you're paying the price.
Choices and consequences.

 

[Durandal]

Can we get a bit more clarification on how lighting affects stealth?
40% apparently means 'enemy can see you from the other side of the map' if my experience with the Warehouse Rooftops was any indication, and 10% means the enemy is still clearly able to spot you in a dimly lit hallway. I don't really expect super dark spots where I can move in front of everyone's eyes without being seen like in Chaos Theory or Thief, though I feel the lighting procent indicator doesn't really do a good job of how well I'm submerged in the shadows and how well enemies can spot me.

 

[Ash]

Yes, an oversight on my part. What I did was take your current light levels (floating point value ranging from 0.000000 - 10.000000), typecasted it to an integer and multiplied it by 10 to get a percentage scale readout for your HUD. That's all fine, except light levels never really goes above 50% (or 5.000000). They can, but DX is a dark game, so the readout should more be considered a scale of: 0% = well hidden. 50% = most bright. That and AI operate on that scale too.

I goofed. Will be fixed in v9.0.

It's only a minor issue though, doesn't effect AI or anything like that, it just confuses the player at first until they get that only 0-50% is actually even relevant.

 

[Black]

Minor inconvenience, if you fire GEP gun with laser sight on JC doesn't automatically reload.

 

[Ash]

You should be playing with auto-reload disabled, filthy casual.

...I'll fix it.