Grimoire Thread

[luj1]

When I play a game like Wizardry and such, the visual features function as inspiration for a internal imagery that accompanies the narrative sequences, in a manner similar to that of text in a novel.

Exactly, you nailed it.

It's called abstraction over simulation. I prefer that approach as well.

Most modern games use the opposite approach, simulation over abstraction. Voice acting, cutscenes, etc.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

When I play a game like Wizardry and such, the visual features function as inspiration for a internal imagery that accompanies the narrative sequences, in a manner similar to that of text in a novel.

Exactly, you nailed it.

It's called abstraction over simulation. I prefer that approach as well.

Most modern games use the opposite approach, simulation over abstraction. Voice acting, cutscenes, etc.

Too much realism and no abstraction, the player accepts that the game is going to replace his imagination and dream state with their own graphics and atmosphere. Turns out, computer games are decades away if ever from doing that as well as great RPGs have been doing it for years. The CGI is no replacement for your own internal dream state.

The most desirable result of immersion in the game is not the adrenalin of a casual game but the low theta wave stimulation which is identical to dreaming but with your eyes open. This won't happen in multiplayer modes and it won't happen for games that do too much to the visuals themselves. What is best is suggestion and the best feeling is hypnotic. When I play Wiz 7 or EOB 2 I lose track of time and become so engaged I forget to go to the bathroom. The world begins to seem realer to me than the real world while playing it. I don't think VR can beat this ... yet.

 

[unseeingeye]

Yea, you guys get it, and it's the main reason I come back to these forums so frequently. I registered an account here back in the early 00's but don't think I ever posted, I just lurked to read about games I hadn't heard of. I stopped being active online around 2006 and didn't return until just a few years ago, and the only reason I came back was because I somehow learned about Grimoire and at the time I just happened to be getting back into Wizardry 7. Seeing that other people feel similarly about these games made me want to engage in the conversations.

I like RPGs well enough and totally loved them as a kid, but anymore there are only a few very specific kinds of CRPGs that I truly care about, and increasingly this is being restricted to grid movement dungeon crawlers. I still very much like isometric games and love classics like the Gold Box games, but there hasn't been a single one made since Icewind Dale 2 that I truly loved. Fortunately there are so many games from the Amiga / C64 / DOS era that I missed growing up that I have no shortage of games to try, but eventually I realized no matter how deeply I search that there was only ever one single game like Wizardry 7, and until Grimoire that game was Wizardry 7, lol. Sitting down to play Grimoire and looking out through the viewport to the gorgeous world before you and hearing that mesmerizing melody that plays outdoors, checking up on your guys to make sure everyone is in good condition and equipped optimally, and preparing to venture forth into the unknown brings me a feeling of pure bliss that is practically narcotic. I've enjoyed a few games that have been made during the past several years, but Grimoire is the only game that in my adult life has inspired that sense of consciousness-expanding wonder that is otherwise only felt in childhood. The game is so evidently made in a spirit of love as an offering to the rest of us, strangers similarly suffering in a hostile world nobody asks to be born into, yet the majority of us will die having only lived in a state of perpetual consumption offering nothing in return to help others the way we've been helped. Jaded and misanthropic as I am, I still find instances of such artistic expression a cause for celebration.

My party that I'm playing with currently is my favorite so far and I think this could be the one that I go all the way with. Perhaps it isn't optimal; in fact that is almost certain, considering how complex the dynamics and racial and class variables are, but I really like them. I have a Human Berserker, a Giant Warrior, a Wolfin Ranger, a Barrower Cleric, a Drow Assassin, a Drow Mage, an Aeorb Sage, and a Human Bard. I agonized over the choices because I wanted to keep the 8th spot open to rotate for NPCs but I read online that you can recover removed party members from the Shrine of the Raptor? Also I know that my choices are not all racially optimal, I don't mind that much though. I did want very much to bring a Drake Metalsmith and a Feyfolk Necromancer that I rolled with high bonus points and hit points but I couldn't stand to part with any of the others. So many awesome choices makes it very difficult to settle even with 8 spots to fill! I love how my Drow Assassin started with a poison dagger too, that thing is amazing.. I only hope it doesn't run out of poison though, or maybe can I reapply it somehow? Either way it is a great help at the beginning, and the combat is so enjoyable. Man, when a game is this great, it hurts to realize how awful the gaming industry is considering how wonderful it could be if most people had any integrity. To quote the great Romanian aphorist Emil Cioran, or rather to restate what he would have said were he to have lived to see it, “Bach's music (and Grimoire) is the only argument proving the creation of the Universe cannot be regarded as a complete failure. Without Bach (and Cleve), God would be a complete second-rate figure.”

 

[jakkis]

Hey Cleve, just wanted to drop by and say I bought this on GOG, my first game purchase this decade. Props for your dedication, many a lesser man has left their magnum opus incomplete, great to see you not only managed to pull through but have kept up support over the years it's been out.

Now, anyone have any 3.0 tips? I've read a bit of this thread, manual, version logs and apparently everything cool got nerfed .

Is strength important for bashing in skulls or should I leave the giant home and pick a faster race for more attacks?

Anyone played with vamphyrs? Is it annoying to lose stats, or is it easy to get around the daytime limitations?

 

[straightedge85]

Hey Cleve, just wanted to drop by and say I bought this on GOG, my first game purchase this decade. Props for your dedication, many a lesser man has left their magnum opus incomplete, great to see you not only managed to pull through but have kept up support over the years it's been out.

Now, anyone have any 3.0 tips? I've read a bit of this thread, manual, version logs and apparently everything cool got nerfed .

Is strength important for bashing in skulls or should I leave the giant home and pick a faster race for more attacks?

Anyone played with vamphyrs? Is it annoying to lose stats, or is it easy to get around the daytime limitation

The limitation is annoying, but If you use bite attack, it will occasionally give you a permanent CON and hit point bonus. You will easily hit 150+ hp early on without multi classing Which makes starting as Vamphyr Assassin one of the best tank in the game(Not bad resistance even in day light thanks to 1.8x bonus).

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Hey Cleve, just wanted to drop by and say I bought this on GOG, my first game purchase this decade. Props for your dedication, many a lesser man has left their magnum opus incomplete, great to see you not only managed to pull through but have kept up support over the years it's been out.

Now, anyone have any 3.0 tips? I've read a bit of this thread, manual, version logs and apparently everything cool got nerfed .

Is strength important for bashing in skulls or should I leave the giant home and pick a faster race for more attacks?

Anyone played with vamphyrs? Is it annoying to lose stats, or is it easy to get around the daytime limitation

The limitation is annoying, but If you use bite attack, it will occasionally give you a permanent CON and hit point bonus. You will easily hit 150+ hp early on without multi classing Which makes starting as Vamphyr Assassin one of the best tank in the game(Not bad resistance even in day light thanks to 1.8x bonus).

I'm amazed that more people don't discover this exploit. You can build Vamphyrs up to incredible levels very rapidly - the daylight penalty is hardly noticeable since the party spends most of their time underground in the game anyway. With some successful bite attacks and then pouring skill points into stealth you can start backstabbing for triple damage in no time.

 

[jakkis]

Thanks, was wondering about adventuring in dark places, nice to get confirmation from THE MAN.

For my "serious" attempt at a party, was thinking of an assassin already, maybe Naga, but will switch to Vamphyr. Then might stick the Naga into a back row slot, maybe sage, not many +% races for sage. Only aeörb, but heard they're annoyingly slow.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Thanks, was wondering about adventuring in dark places, nice to get confirmation from THE MAN.

For my "serious" attempt at a party, was thinking of an assassin already, maybe Naga, but will switch to Vamphyr. Then might stick the Naga into a back row slot, maybe sage, not many +% races for sage. Only aeörb, but heard they're annoyingly slow.

The Aeorbs will always be physically puny and sensitive even at the higher levels which is why they should always be at the rear of the party. After only a couple level advances they start to get really good spells and are very effective in the combats. The Aeorb sage can get good at a lot of things in a short time and also add wrinkles to the game like reading ancient languages etc. ... many people believe languages are a useless skill but it can open up the door to awesome items in at least 3 places in the game.

Because it is used in fiction so often, the character who can read a rare unknown language that provides major clues, I want to make this skill important in the Lovecraft blobber I am working on as well.

 

[Lady Error]

many people believe languages are a useless skill but it can open up the door to awesome items in at least 3 places in the game.

Do you remember on which maps? And is that the way to find the name of the wish-granting Djinn as well? As far as I know, none of us have found his name in the game, only by looking at the source code.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

many people believe languages are a useless skill but it can open up the door to awesome items in at least 3 places in the game.

Do you remember on which maps? And is that the way to find the name of the wish-granting Djinn as well? As far as I know, none of us have found his name in the game, only by looking at the source code.

I know that languages unlocks the Djinn, I believe it is crucial in two other dungeons to get an item and in several places it provides an alternative solution to a problem that lets you skip right to the goodies if you know the translation. I think it is used in the Rhattu pyramid and the vault under the palace.

 

[unseeingeye]

I'm amazed that more people don't discover this exploit. You can build Vamphyrs up to incredible levels very rapidly - the daylight penalty is hardly noticeable since the party spends most of their time underground in the game anyway. With some successful bite attacks and then pouring skill points into stealth you can start backstabbing for triple damage in no time.

Whaaaaat..... Damn, must resist urge to restart..

 

[Sunri]

So I'm playing this for the first time is there any guide or progression route that i should take i got to the first village, and I'm kinda exploring blindly.

 

[Lady Error]

So I'm playing this for the first time is there any guide or progression route that i should take i got to the first village, and I'm kinda exploring blindly.

That's how it's supposed to be. It's pretty much open world, especially later in the game.

 

[Sunri]

So I'm playing this for the first time is there any guide or progression route that i should take i got to the first village, and I'm kinda exploring blindly.

That's how it's supposed to be. It's pretty much open world, especially later in the game.

Hmm, do i need to complete puzzles? to progress, or can i just skip the extra loot.

 

[Butter]

Some puzzles are mandatory in order to complete the game.

 

[Sunri]

Another question about swimming when i step into water all lose all my vitality, but my skill goes up should i grind up if i want to explore water arena? or is there some water walking spell.

 

[Viata]

There is a turtle. It's majestic.

 

[Sunri]

Another question about swimming when i step into water all lose all my vitality, but my skill goes up should i grind up if i want to explore water arena? or is there some water walking spell.

Have you added any points into the swimming?

yes before that i just drowned after spending some points i have between 5-10 on my party members i can step into the water but i die after few seconds

 

[Viata]

I don't know in current version, but it used to take a fixed % of HP so it didn't matter how much HP your characters had, they would always die after N steps.

 

[Butter]

There's no waterwalking spell. Some water areas can be traversed on a turtle. Others require you to swim. There are items like Baldercake that can replenish vitality, but the higher your Swimming skill, the less vitality you lose to begin with, so those resources will last longer. As in Wizardry 7, training your Swimming (and later Climbing) is a good idea.

 

[Lady Error]

Food replenishes vitality and there is also a spell to restore vitality. It can come in handy in combat as well, because your characters have better armor penetration with higher vitality bars.

 

[Dorateen]

There are water walking shoes that cast the water walk spell, but they are found later in the game. The spell itself, I recall is pretty high level (available to clerics, I think) and difficult to obtain.

 

[straightedge85]

Hey Cleve, just wanted to drop by and say I bought this on GOG, my first game purchase this decade. Props for your dedication, many a lesser man has left their magnum opus incomplete, great to see you not only managed to pull through but have kept up support over the years it's been out.

Now, anyone have any 3.0 tips? I've read a bit of this thread, manual, version logs and apparently everything cool got nerfed .

Is strength important for bashing in skulls or should I leave the giant home and pick a faster race for more attacks?

Anyone played with vamphyrs? Is it annoying to lose stats, or is it easy to get around the daytime limitation

The limitation is annoying, but If you use bite attack, it will occasionally give you a permanent CON and hit point bonus. You will easily hit 150+ hp early on without multi classing Which makes starting as Vamphyr Assassin one of the best tank in the game(Not bad resistance even in day light thanks to 1.8x bonus).

I'm amazed that more people don't discover this exploit. You can build Vamphyrs up to incredible levels very rapidly - the daylight penalty is hardly noticeable since the party spends most of their time underground in the game anyway. With some successful bite attacks and then pouring skill points into stealth you can start backstabbing for triple damage in no time.

I accidentally unequipped dagger in the beginning and than figure out even though Vamphyr had "bite" and "claw" option despite being humanoid, so I thought maybe there's blood sucking mechanism for vamphyr lol. Great CRPG by the way Cleeve. Still in a early stage and experimenting this and that but it really gives me a David Bradley vibe!

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

There's no waterwalking spell. Some water areas can be traversed on a turtle. Others require you to swim. There are items like Baldercake that can replenish vitality, but the higher your Swimming skill, the less vitality you lose to begin with, so those resources will last longer. As in Wizardry 7, training your Swimming (and later Climbing) is a good idea.

There is a waterwalking spell but it is only good for max spell power of 7 steps. The waterwalking boots are found throughout the game.

Most water traversals necessary to progress in the game will invariably have waterwalking boots hidden close by or available in chests prior to encountering the water. There's no water required in the game you can't use a spell to get across ... but you can also develop your swimming skill to swim long distances on water. In combination with Vitality restore spells you can swim all over the place without the turtle or the waterwalking boots.

 

[Sunri]

It took me around 30 minutes to turn my whole team into Olympic swimmers, another question what the purpose of spirit statistic and how to restore it?