KickStarter Guido Henkel's Deathfire: Ruins of Nethermore - CANCELLED

[Alchemist]

I guess the lawyers of whoever is publishing DSA now may care, so better to leave it the way it is.

Yeah, it's one thing if he advertises the game as "from the mind behind Realm of Arcania", it's another if the game ends up effectively being a Dark Eye game without the license.

Putting healing skills under "crafting" is another one of those clear tip-offs, by the way. Hopefully he'll at least do some renaming to cover this stuff up a bit.

Just FYI - you can't copyright or patent game rules / mechanics. So there's no legal recourse a game company can take if someone rips off the mechanics of their RPG system. Plus, CRPGs have been ripping off tabletop RPGs (mostly D&D) since the beginning, it's a long-standing tradition.

 

[Excidium]

Their "disadvantages" stats are basically just an English translation of the Dark Eye system. Same goes for the herbal/poison/animal lore skills, the body skill named "self control", and the crafting skills "treat wounds/poisons/diseases".

And that's a bad thing?

No, ripping off pre-existing stuff is a sign of talented designer at work. D&D stats mixed with DSA stats, presto!

I guess the lawyers of whoever is publishing DSA now may care, so better to leave it the way it is.

Yeah, it's one thing if he advertises the game as "from the mind behind Realm of Arcania", it's another if the game ends up effectively being a Dark Eye game without the license.

Putting healing skills under "crafting" is another one of those clear tip-offs, by the way. Hopefully he'll at least do some renaming to cover this stuff up a bit.

Just FYI - you can't copyright or patent game rules / mechanics. So there's no legal recourse a game company can take if someone rips off the mechanics of their RPG system. Plus, CRPGs have been ripping off tabletop RPGs (mostly D&D) since the beginning, it's a long-standing tradition.

Yes, but it's p. fucking lazy. If I were to design an RPG I'd also take inspiration from systems I like, but not just copy paste it.

 

[Lady_Error]

No, ripping off pre-existing stuff is a sign of talented designer at work. D&D stats mixed with DSA stats, presto!

All designers, artists, musicians rip-off pre-existing stuff all the time...

If I were to design an RPG

Do it faggot.

 

[Alchemist]

Just FYI - you can't copyright or patent game rules / mechanics. So there's no legal recourse a game company can take if someone rips off the mechanics of their RPG system. Plus, CRPGs have been ripping off tabletop RPGs (mostly D&D) since the beginning, it's a long-standing tradition.

Yes, but it's p. fucking lazy. If I were to design an RPG I'd also take inspiration from systems I like, but not just copy paste it.

I agree with you on that - plus, any tabletop system should be heavily modified to work well in a computer game anyway.

 

[Excidium]

No, ripping off pre-existing stuff is a sign of talented designer at work. D&D stats mixed with DSA stats, presto!

All designers, artists, musicians rip-off pre-existing stuff all the time...

Yes but it's different from merely copying it down to the same terminology.

If I were to design an RPG

Do it faggot.

Not insane enough.

 

[Lady_Error]

No, ripping off pre-existing stuff is a sign of talented designer at work. D&D stats mixed with DSA stats, presto!

All designers, artists, musicians rip-off pre-existing stuff all the time...

Yes but it's different from merely copying it down to the same terminology.

Nobody cares, as long as the resulting product is good.

 

[Excidium]

Just FYI - you can't copyright or patent game rules / mechanics. So there's no legal recourse a game company can take if someone rips off the mechanics of their RPG system. Plus, CRPGs have been ripping off tabletop RPGs (mostly D&D) since the beginning, it's a long-standing tradition.

Yes, but it's p. fucking lazy. If I were to design an RPG I'd also take inspiration from systems I like, but not just copy paste it.

I agree with you on that - plus, any tabletop system should be heavily modified to work well in a computer game anyway.

I think it depends on the game. Torment for example, better be p. damn different from the tabletop game it follows. An OGL-based game though? Doesn't need to change much.

No, ripping off pre-existing stuff is a sign of talented designer at work. D&D stats mixed with DSA stats, presto!

All designers, artists, musicians rip-off pre-existing stuff all the time...

Yes but it's different from merely copying it down to the same terminology.

Nobody cares, as long as the resulting product is good.

Depends on your definition of good.

 

[Lady_Error]

Depends on your definition of good.

Says the guy who finds p. much everything shit.

 

[Excidium]

Not really. Just not a lot of people doing things the way I like.

 

[Alchemist]

I agree with you on that - plus, any tabletop system should be heavily modified to work well in a computer game anyway.

I think it depends on the game. Torment for example, better be p. damn different from the tabletop game it follows. An OGL-based game though? Doesn't need to change much.

Yeah, OGL works because a lot of rules are codified and not left to a DM's discretion. Older systems like 1st ed AD&D / Basic D&D need more tweaking since so much was ruled on-the-fly by the DM.

 

[V_K]

Just FYI - you can't copyright or patent game rules / mechanics. So there's no legal recourse a game company can take if someone rips off the mechanics of their RPG system. Plus, CRPGs have been ripping off tabletop RPGs (mostly D&D) since the beginning, it's a long-standing tradition.

I mean - had the man openly said: "Okaaay, I don't have a DSA license this time, so I'm just gonna rip off some of its skills" - that could have provided for some legal action, no? Also, as I've heard, German copyright laws are somewhat more draconian than the US ones.

 

[Alchemist]

Just FYI - you can't copyright or patent game rules / mechanics. So there's no legal recourse a game company can take if someone rips off the mechanics of their RPG system. Plus, CRPGs have been ripping off tabletop RPGs (mostly D&D) since the beginning, it's a long-standing tradition.

I mean - had the man openly said: "Okaaay, I don't have a DSA license this time, so I'm just gonna rip off some of its skills" - that could have provided for some legal action, no? Also, as I've heard, German copyright laws are somewhat more draconian than the US ones.

Well I'm no lawyer but I just described my general understanding (from a US perspective). Maybe the German angle would make it different, I don't know. Unless he mentioned the game was based on DSA specifically in advertising I'm guessing he'd be safe.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/g3studios/deathfire-ruins-of-nethermore/posts/659098

1,500 Backers, we offer you a new goal!

Last night we finally reached 1,500 backers. It took a little longer than we had hoped, but it does not change the fact that it makes us very happy. So happy, in fact, that we decided to drop the 48 hour limitation we had previously imposed and will give the Kickstarter Editions of the game their own, unique cover!

What’s more, when the time comes we will prepare a selection of potential covers and allow all backers to vote which one we should use for the final packaging. Sound fair?

Now that we have reached this initial goal, lets move to the next one. We want to continue attracting new backers, of course, and therefore we have decided that we will be addingan additional ending to the game if we reach 2,500 backers!

In its current version, the game will contain three different main endings, each with a number of subtle variations. With the new goal we will add a fourth main ending path to the game, that will divert from the others and will offer an additional, unique way to complete the game. We feel it is a great goal to aspire to, as it also adds tremendous replay value, and we hope you will continue to help us gather momentum and exposure for the “Deathfire” Kickstarter, so that we can not only reach this goal, but blast way past it and add other cool features to the game over the duration of this campaign.

Thank you all for your support!

A word to our International Backers
Yesterday I touched upon the problems backers in countries like Germany may have, being unable to place pledges without a credit card. As it turns out, there is a fairly simple and straight forward way to solve the problem. (Thanks go to our backers ☆Citizen Silencer☆ and Stephan Hammes for pointing us in that direction.)

Most countries, including Germany, offer prepaid credit cards, such as Mywirecard and PaySafeCard, which can often be purchased at gas stations. These cards can be charged with any amount of money you wish and can then be used like regular credit cards. This way it is possible for anyone who place a pledge here on Kickstarter and support our project.

Both, Mywirecard (http://www.wirecardbank.com) and PaySafeCard (http://www.paysafecard.com) even allow you to create and manage your prepaid credit card online, so check them out.

Shout-out to our Friends
Today, I wanted to let you know that Kingart Games have just released Battle Worlds: Kronos last week. It is a game that has been funded through a Kickstarter campaign some time ago and is finally available for everyone to play! Check it out on Steam, for example - http://store.steampowered.com/app/237470/

 

[tuluse]

Well he has more backers and money than Thorvalla had.

I think he could salvage this one and succeed, but barely.

 

[Bubbles]

PaySafeCard isn't actually accepted by Kickstarter, so Guido strikes out again.

 

[Stabwound]

What in the fuck are these mini stretchgoals that come before its funded instead of after? Why doesn't he just put all of this out there to begin with instead of dropping pieces along the way? Like, there's no way this shit was going to reach its goal with less than 1500 or 2500 backers, so why are they making these stretch goals? "New character class unlocked if we reach 10% funding! Expanded soundtrack at 20%!"

Who wants to bet Guido is doing this own kickstarter marketing and everything else himself?

Poor guy wants to make a CRPG but he can't do much besides create the core systems. Anything he was involved with creatively or in promoting the game is awful down to how utterly bland the game looks and running the kickstarter having absolutely no clue how people run them well.

 

[Excommunicator]

Well he should be doing it himself as a long-time professional producer and as someone with (presumably) limited funds. He's not doing an ideal job but I don't think he deserves much more scorn than many other more successful projects out there. They're all guilty of the same fundamental issues really.

He at least seems to be doing a pretty comprehensive job of providing daily updates as well as keeping track of all the press coverage for the game, so I think he at least believes he can reach the finish line if he pushes hard enough even though to an outsider that seems quite unlikely at this point.

I think one of his main problems (other than some unhelpful personality traits) is an apparent lack of experience working on fictional/setting material and possibly failing to develop the skills needed to get past the infatuation with overused/simplistic elements (undead armies, big bad liche etc) he has thrown into this game. It's not a good thing that he's pitching a game with a setting that was started from scratch not too long ago. I much prefer the idea of indie projects pitching with content that has been developed over a period of years in their free time as that better indicates a true passion for and investment in the concept.

 

[theSavant]

we decided to drop the 48 hour limitation we had previously imposed and will give the Kickstarter Editions of the game their own, unique cover!

What's with this stupid shit? One thing I really don't want is an ugly Kickstarter logo on the game package, nor as loading screens or menu background!! It's the same annoyance like having ads on your box... no one fucking cares. At best it destroys the immersion from the game itself. I'd like it in the background, such as in the credits section.

 

[Gord]

PaySafeCard isn't actually accepted by Kickstarter, so Guido strikes out again.

Is it accepted by Amazon Payments? Because that's what I need to use when backing a Kickstarter Project...

I think one of his main problems (other than some unhelpful personality traits) is an apparent lack of experience working on fictional/setting material and possibly failing to develop the skills needed to get past the infatuation with overused/simplistic elements (undead armies, big bad liche etc) he has thrown into this game.

I don't think he lacks the skills, I rather think that this is his style. At least from reading some of his stories, I got the impression that he likes that classical b-movie-esque horror elements. I wouldn't expect Nobel-Literature-prize writing there, either. And as evidenced by countless other games, you don't need an unique setting to be successful, rather familiar, if overused elements might be safer in the long run.
Btw. is there any reliable information on how long e.g. the PE team worked on developing the world/setting for their game?

we decided to drop the 48 hour limitation we had previously imposed and will give the Kickstarter Editions of the game their own, unique cover!

What's with this stupid shit? One thing I really don't want is an ugly Kickstarter logo on the game package. It's the same annoyance like having ads on your box... no one fucking cares. At best it destroys the immersion from the game itself.

Outrageous! Best to cancel your pledge immediately!

 

[Lady_Error]

we decided to drop the 48 hour limitation we had previously imposed and will give the Kickstarter Editions of the game their own, unique cover!

What's with this stupid shit? One thing I really don't want is an ugly Kickstarter logo on the game package, nor as loading screens or menu background!! It's the same annoyance like having ads on your box... no one fucking cares. At best it destroys the immersion from the game itself. I'd like it in the background, such as in the credits section.

We've got someone who wants to join the hardcore "everything is shit" crowd.

By the way, an exclusive cover for Kickstarter backers does not even mean that there will be the an "ugly Kickstarter logo" on the package. And even if there is one, THAT will destroy your immersion?

You're just starting to complain about all kinds of shit, like "there is not enough information about this game". I asked you what kind of information you are missing, yet you remained silent on that.

 

[theSavant]

The thing with KS Logo I found shit from the beginning, but that doesn't mean I mention everything what I think. Hence I was glad that this stupid stretchgoal didn't make it. Not because I wish him to fail (I don't wish him to fail), but because this goal adds nothing to the game itself. And then he suddenly come up with this useless goal again...
Regarding the information missing: I'd like to know how party interactions are implemented in detail, which I asked in his forum and yet expect an answer. The answer will determine if I remove my pledge or not.

 

[Lady_Error]

The thing with KS Logo I found shit from the beginning, but that doesn't mean I mention everything what I think. Regarding the information missing: I'd like to know how party interactions are implemented in detail, which I asked in his forum and yet expect an answer. The answer will determine if I remove my pledge or not.

Congratulations, you are now part of the "hardcore dumbfucks" crowd.

I'm sure it will be a box with a big fat Kickstarter logo right in the middle of it. Also, be fucking grateful that they want to implement party interactions at all. Hardly any other RPG is doing that.

 

[theSavant]

That's exactly what I don't want: a fat ugly Kickstarter Logo right in the middle of it. I want the clean atmospheric game cover, nothing else.

And regarding party interactions: if party interactions take place in a giant bookpage of static text popping up in your face, then I say this: if it plays like book, reads like a book and behaves like a book - then I rather read a real book. Simple as that.

 

[Lady_Error]

That's exactly what I don't want: a fat ugly Kickstarter Logo right in the middle of it.

/Sarcasm recognition fail.

And regarding party interactions: if party interactions take place in a giant bookpage of static text popping up in your face, then I say this: if it plays like book, reads like a book and behaves like a book - then I rather read a real book. Simple as that.

If you're so afraid of text in an RPG, have you ever played Planescape Torment? I'm sure it is much better to read an actual book than having to put up with all that text in a fucking game.

 

[theSavant]

No, I have not. But that's not the point. And it's not about "some" text, which I have nothing against, but the published screenshot shows that *every* so called "interaction" could take place as book pages opening up in your screen. And if that's the case, it's ridiculous:
For one it would show, that Guido is stuck in a time 15 years ago, ignorant of any developments in the meantime.
For another it would make the game even more niche than it already is, consequently making the amount of funding requested a joke.

Whatever he answers, it will show more than just "party interactions exist". It will show if he actually made some real thoughts about it, not just empty talk, and if he wants to go the cheapest way possible or not.

And btw. yes, reading a book is more convenient as you can read always and everywhere. Reading books while staring on a computer screen is also much more inconvenient for they eyes. Amazon Kindle had to struggle, to make the lighting and brightness of the eReader easy on the eyes, but they eventually managed it.