Elder Scrolls How would Skyrim have been without the Decline caused by consoles?

[StrongBelwas]

the same shit with some visual touch ups, but not too much that it gates out the toasters.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Who cares. Just mod it until it's gud, then play five minutes and never touch it again.

 

[Norfleet]

[*]Magic will be HATED not only in few dialogs with certain mages. If you are a magic user, you will be misstreated. Certain shops will refuse to sell things to you, you will be forced to be in shakles before talking with certain NPC's like important Jarls and doing magic in mid of the city be illegal in many cities. Guards will refuse bribes or take the bribery and arrest you despite it or attack in sight unless you have very high persuasion.

I think this is predicated on the notion that everyone somehow KNOWS you are a wizard. Unless it has been made illegal to be a wizard, and I imagine it isn't as long as the Empire is still present, the guards shouldn't attack you JUST for being a wizard. In fact, attacking wizards is a pretty bad idea. There's a saying: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are flammable and conduct electricity.

 

[Marat]

There is nothing wrong with a game being designed to also run on consoles.

There is plenty of fucking wrong with this when such design requires compromises to product's artistic value. As it always does.

 

[Humanophage]

This is a lie. PC RPGs didn't decline because of consoles. During the PS2 era (2000-2006) PC RPGs were already in steep decline yet not many western RPGs had hit the console market.

Nah, it's a very visible transition. See the difference between the highly complex NWN1 and the consolised KOTOR, which immediately followed it. It's not about being impressive. NWN1 has boring writing in the OC, but the system is perfectly fine and shows zero console taint. In fact, it was a step towards greater complexity with the skills. Meanwhile, KOTOR is a fairly fun game, but you can clearly see how it was twisted by the need to work on consoles.

The source of problems appears to be XBOX rather than Playstation. KOTOR was made for XBOX, so was Oblivion, so was Mass Effect. This introduced endless limitations not just in technical terms like the inability to read much on the telly, but also in the sense that now they had to be made appealing to the retarded console crowd who grew up on HALO, Final Fantasy, etc. and had zero exposure to good complex games. Tolerance for complexity in the potential audience collapsed and so we got the decline.

There is the added decline factor of WoW, which drew away a lot of intermediate taste folks who had experience with decent complex games.

 

[unseeingeye]

This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go27bgPJTPY&list=PLCTdSgjkZy-9pFFt74vchciwJ3AdCazw4

Yea, that's the one I was referring to. When I saw the thread title it immediately came to mind, though his take on it is from a more general perspective where yours is more causally focused.

Although I do assume that designing the game for consoles probably did contribute somewhat to its disappointing state, I think that there are other major factors that ruin the game, with causes manifold.

 

[racofer]

How would Skyrim have been without the Decline caused by consoles?

It would have converged to the same LoversLab fueled hentai sex slave rape fantasy game it was always supposed to be.

 

[mogwaimon]

it would have been the same because the Decline isn't caused by consoles, it's caused by the general dumbing down of the population as well as the infiltration and proliferation of talentless danger hairs (and their equally talentless predecessors) into the gaming industry. one could blame consoles for making gaming a more mainstream hobby, thus causing the mouthbreathers to take an interest to begin with...but considering the Decline has been happening to pretty much every portion of the entertainment industry from movies and music to even literature and PnP games, I personally can't put the blame on consoles.

 

[TemplarGR]

Skyrim was no decline. Skyrim is the perfect evolution of the RPG genre. It is the pinnacle of RPGs. You get to play in a massive open world, with plenty of NPCs to interact, and total freedom in how you mold your class during your playthrough and how you approach each situation. It has plenty of immersive sim elements too. GREAT game, and there is a reason it became so successful.

There is also a reason people don't like playing GARBAGE like Pathfinder and other isometric trash. Contrary to popular belief (on the codex, cause actual popular belief in the outside world is that Skyrim is a masterpiece), those games are not hard to grasp or require higher brain capability. They are braindead games, relying mostly on RNG. The only choices you make are during the character creation screen, those are the most important, afterwards you are just going through the motions, and savescum all day. There is nothing hard about this style of game. Even a chimpantzee could beat Pathfinder, assuming you trained him to press quicksave/quickload. All it would take is time.

It is unbelievable to me that actual MORONS play braindead games and assume that just because they have convoluted class systems and excel spreadsheets, somehow those are "the thinking man's games". BULL-SHIT. Thinking men do work for a living, build rockets, cars, perform brain surgery, etc. Games are just games, and no one wants shitty games, which is why isometric trash don't sell and you are all butthurt that Skyrim is still unsurpassed in the fantasy CRPG genre.

 

[mogwaimon]

Skyrim was no decline. Skyrim is the perfect evolution of the RPG genre. It is the pinnacle of RPGs. You get to play in a massive open world, with plenty of NPCs to interact, and total freedom in how you mold your class during your playthrough and how you approach each situation. It has plenty of immersive sim elements too. GREAT game, and there is a reason it became so successful.

There is also a reason people don't like playing GARBAGE like Pathfinder and other isometric trash. Contrary to popular belief (on the codex, cause actual popular belief in the outside world is that Skyrim is a masterpiece), those games are not hard to grasp or require higher brain capability. They are braindead games, relying mostly on RNG. The only choices you make are during the character creation screen, those are the most important, afterwards you are just going through the motions, and savescum all day. There is nothing hard about this style of game. Even a chimpantzee could beat Pathfinder, assuming you trained him to press quicksave/quickload. All it would take is time.

It is unbelievable to me that actual MORONS play braindead games and assume that just because they have convoluted class systems and excel spreadsheets, somehow those are "the thinking man's games". BULL-SHIT. Thinking men do work for a living, build rockets, cars, perform brain surgery, etc. Games are just games, and no one wants shitty games, which is why isometric trash don't sell and you are all butthurt that Skyrim is still unsurpassed in the fantasy CRPG genre.

Skyrim was surpassed like ten years before by Morrowind and also surpassed by Fallout New Vegas. when the decline is even grossly apparent to a relative popamoler like me you know you've gone down a dark road.

 

[Gahbreeil]

Fallout: New Vegas has that quality of being what Fallout 3 should have been. Skyrim without the decline would have been what Morrowind could've been with the graphics and combat system of Skyrim, more of an RPG, less of an action game.

 

[TemplarGR]

Skyrim was surpassed like ten years before by Morrowind

You are beyond delusional. Morrowind was trash. Combat system was trash (stand there for 20 minutes looking at misses and the occasional hit with your sword), dialogue system was trash (rumor has it Wikipedia interface was influenced by it), inventory system and the gui in general was trash (basically windows 95 window frames with some tiny icons in them). Skyrim was leaps and bounds better.

also surpassed by Fallout New Vegas

Fallout New Vegas was garbage. People only liked it for the branching storyline and the crazy-funny theme. Gameplay wise was much worse than Fallout 3. Also its atmosphere sucked compared to 3 and 4 which while humorous also respected the apocalyptic setting and were more grim-dark. New Vegas was a parody no one could actually take seriously. Every city and NPC was Saturday night live comedy tier.

Fallout: New Vegas has that quality of being what Fallout 3 should have been

Actually, the only good thing New Vegas brought to the table were the weapons and armor which were more realistic and with better variety. Other than that and the multiple endings storyline, Fallout 3 was the vastly superior game gameplay-wise and that's a fact.

 

[ItsChon]

No amount of incline could save a third person walking simulator with shit combat. I was 12 when I beat the game on Legendary lmfao.

 

[mogwaimon]

Skyrim was surpassed like ten years before by Morrowind

You are beyond delusional. Morrowind was trash. Combat system was trash (stand there for 20 minutes looking at misses and the occasional hit with your sword), dialogue system was trash (rumor has it Wikipedia interface was influenced by it), inventory system and the gui in general was trash (basically windows 95 window frames with some tiny icons in them). Skyrim was leaps and bounds better.

also surpassed by Fallout New Vegas

Fallout New Vegas was garbage. People only liked it for the branching storyline and the crazy-funny theme. Gameplay wise was much worse than Fallout 3. Also its atmosphere sucked compared to 3 and 4 which while humorous also respected the apocalyptic setting and were more grim-dark. New Vegas was a parody no one could actually take seriously. Every city and NPC was Saturday night live comedy tier.

Fallout: New Vegas has that quality of being what Fallout 3 should have been

Actually, the only good thing New Vegas brought to the table were the weapons and armor which were more realistic and with better variety. Other than that and the multiple endings storyline, Fallout 3 was the vastly superior game gameplay-wise and that's a fact.

you're obviously farming retadred ratings so I'll just rate your post funny instead

 

[Funposter]

Why bother making this thread about Skyrim, when it should really be about Oblivion?

 

[Tyranicon]

I want to be here for the shitstorm that is Elder Scrolls 6.

 

[Cryomancer]

Skyrim was no decline

What???

• No polarms
• No mark/recall, levitation and etc
• No spellmaking
• No consequence for your actions
• No reputations
• NO sun damage for vampires
• No directions + questmarkers
• Retarded armor design
• Level scaling
• (...)

Pathfinder and other isometric trash. Contrary to popular belief (on the codex, cause actual popular belief in the outside world is that Skyrim is a masterpiece), those games are not hard to grasp or require higher brain capability. They are braindead games, relying mostly on RNG. The only choices you make are during the character creation screen, those are the most important, afterwards you are just going through the motions, and savescum all day. There is nothing hard about this style of game. Even a chimpantzee could beat Pathfinder

Wrong. Very wrong. Pathfinder Kingmaker and Pathfinder : Wrath of the Righteous was in the steam top sellers for many days after its launch. Obviously it din't outsold action games which always sells more but considering the small budget, it was a success by any metric.

And you make a lot of decisions, I changed my spells prepared multiple times in my last kingmaker run.

In Skyrim, I just dual cast firebolt + impact perk. That is everything that I do as a mage.

excel spreadsheets

If you need excel spreadsheets to play kingmaker, you are dumb.

Gameplay wise was much worse than Fallout 3.

Wrong, very wrong. You can't even aim down sights in FL3.

Hell, I can use multiple "ammo' types in Skyrim, I can use explosive bolts for my crossbow but I can't use special ammo in FL3. FL3 gunplay is honestly worse than skyrim "crossbowplay".

isometric

You hate isometric perspective. We get it. I hate gear farming cooldown managing boredoms, I honestly rather play skyrim over DOS2, WoW and Diablo 3.

 

[Funposter]

• No polarms
• No mark/recall, levitation and etc
• No spellmaking
• No consequence for your actions
• No reputations
• NO sun damage for vampires
• No directions + questmarkers
• Retarded armor design
• Level scaling
• (...)

with the exception of spellmaking this is still just oblivion. i guess reputation too, because of fame/infamy.

 

[Butter]

• No polarms
• No mark/recall, levitation and etc
• No spellmaking
• No consequence for your actions
• No reputations
• NO sun damage for vampires
• No directions + questmarkers
• Retarded armor design
• Level scaling
• (...)

with the exception of spellmaking this is still just oblivion. i guess reputation too, because of fame/infamy.

Oblivion has sun damage for vampires.

 

[Funposter]

• No polarms
• No mark/recall, levitation and etc
• No spellmaking
• No consequence for your actions
• No reputations
• NO sun damage for vampires
• No directions + questmarkers
• Retarded armor design
• Level scaling
• (...)

with the exception of spellmaking this is still just oblivion. i guess reputation too, because of fame/infamy.

Oblivion has sun damage for vampires.

Which doesn't affect the player at Stage 1, but fair enough.

 

[Cryomancer]

with the exception of spellmaking this is still just oblivion. i guess reputation too, because of fame/infamy.

spellmaking, armor, consequences, reputation, directions and levitation.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Oblivion had already constituted an aggressive simplification and dumbing-down of game mechanics from its immediate predecessor Morrowind:

• Comprehensive creature-leveling such that all monsters and NPCs are set at the same level as the PC, with weaker types of monsters disappearing after the character gains enough levels, and stronger types of monsters not appearing when the character is low-level
• Comprehensive item-leveling whereby a high-level PC will not only encounter similarly high-level bandits but said bandits will have random pieces of extremely expensive armor and weapons, while a low-level PC will never find weapons/armor of such powerful material; or a weapon on display in a glass case in a castle will be a worthless replica if the PC is low-level but the real thing after the PC gains enough levels
  
• A clunky interface, which was clearly designed for consoles, in sharp contrast to Morrowind's sleek menus.
  
• Reduction in the number of joinable guilds/factions offering many quests from 10 in Morrowind to 4 in Oblivion, keeping the more generic ones (Fighters/Mages/Thieves guilds)
• Factions now centered around quest lines, with 2 of the 4 (Fighters Guild and Mages Guild) being poorly written and boring
  
• Both in-game and out-of-game world maps that offer far less information than their Morrowind equivalents
• Automatic fast-travel to any location that's already been visited
• A quest compass that points to your next destination, the use of which is made necessary by the combination of uninformative journal entries and an inability to ask directions
• Full voice-acting for dialogue, which necessitated a drastic reduction in the amount of dialogue per NPC, most of whom have one comment about themselves or their city to offer and nothing else
• Poor writing in general, with dialogue and books less interesting than in Morrowind
  
• Minigames for speechcraft and lockpicking (and poorly-done minigames, at that)
  
• Elimination of certain kinds of items, such as thrown weapons, crossbows, and spears
• Reduction in the number of skills to the point where axes are considered blunt weapons
• Regenerating magicka, which effectively means that all health can be easily regained after each combat, thus removing much of the logistics that existed previously
• Elimination of different physiques (and animations) for Argonians and Khajiits
• 3D face modelling was a technical improvement but horribly implemented so that the end result was substantially worse
• HDR lighting was a technical improvement but in practice was overpowering and made the graphics worse (though at least HDR was optional)
• A physics model was a technical advancement but its implementation was so wonky that bumping into a table would send objects flying around a room
  
• Lack of aesthetics, especially compared to Morrowind's brilliant art direction
• A generic, medieval fantasy grab-bag setting, without even the coherence offered by Daggerfall's Iliac Bay region much less the spectacular sui generis setting of Morrowind
• A dull, poorly-plotted main quest, with the only plane of Oblivion featured in the base game (except at the very end) being a generic hellscape with little variation
• A half-baked action-oriented combat system so that success in combat depends greatly on the player's physical skill, yet is boring and tedious

Skyrim was somewhat more simplified than Oblivion but also managed to improve in a few areas (e.g. a setting that is coherent albeit stereotypical). The difference between Oblivion and Skyrim is relatively miniscule compared to the difference between Morrowind and Oblivion.

 

[JamesDixon]

• No polarms
• No mark/recall, levitation and etc
• No spellmaking
• No consequence for your actions
• No reputations
• NO sun damage for vampires
• No directions + questmarkers
• Retarded armor design
• Level scaling
• (...)

with the exception of spellmaking this is still just oblivion. i guess reputation too, because of fame/infamy.

Oblivion has sun damage for vampires.

Daggerfall has sun and holy place damage to vampires. Oblivion didn't do anything new in that regard. Daggerfall also had fame/infamy for every single province in the game which was 47. Each province was tracked individually.

 

[Butter]

• No polarms
• No mark/recall, levitation and etc
• No spellmaking
• No consequence for your actions
• No reputations
• NO sun damage for vampires
• No directions + questmarkers
• Retarded armor design
• Level scaling
• (...)

with the exception of spellmaking this is still just oblivion. i guess reputation too, because of fame/infamy.

Oblivion has sun damage for vampires.

Daggerfall has sun and holy place damage to vampires. Oblivion didn't do anything new in that regard. Daggerfall also had fame/infamy for every single province in the game which was 47. Each province was tracked individually.

I'm aware.

 

[TemplarGR]

No polarms

Who cares? The truth is, no one fights with polearms in non rank and file situations. Polearms suck as individual weapons. That is what swords were for. A sword and shield guy would beat the shit out of any polearm wielder in 1 on 1 combat. In the end, it is just a different item to do the exact same thing the other melee items did, which was cause melee damage, so no one actually missed them. Even if for some autistic reason you wanted them in, you could mod them in yourself.

No mark/recall, levitation and etc

Again, who cares? Spells like these broke the game and engine in various ways anyways, and Skyrim was already pretty much exploitable with crafting, no need for more exploits. If you really wanted them, you could mod them in. I never missed them and i didn't really give a fuck about them in Morrowind.

No spellmaking

So? Spellmaking was overrated in previous games, hardly most people used it.

No consequence for your actions

This is false, there are certain consequences for your actions.

No reputations

Who cares? Reputations are an autistic thing anyway. Real world does not have an arithmetic reputation for various factions, reputations do not work that way in the real world. They are actually a shitty system to implement. Most factions are simply "you are in or you are out" in the real world, plus position in the pecking order. Skyrim has those.

NO sun damage for vampires

Skyrim did have severe penalties in daylight for vampires, especially at later stages of vampirism.

Retarded armor design

This is a personal preference. I liked the armor design more than Morrowind and Oblivion.

Level scaling

Morrowind and Oblivion had worse level scaling. Plus you can't really have quality open world games without some form of level scaling.

Wrong. Very wrong. Pathfinder Kingmaker and Pathfinder : Wrath of the Righteous was in the steam top sellers for many days after its launch. Obviously it din't outsold action games which always sells more but considering the small budget, it was a success by any metric.

Yeah, they released during a time frame when nothing else was competing, so they appeared to be better than they really were.

And you make a lot of decisions, I changed my spells prepared multiple times in my last kingmaker run.

Oh RLY? That's great. Changing some icons in the interface and then hitting rest is such a great type of gameplay. Important decisions right there. Not even Einstein could play this shit.

In Skyrim, I just dual cast firebolt + impact perk. That is everything that I do as a mage.

You wouldn't get far with that recipe in later stages, and a mage had many schools at his disposal not just destruction. In any case, spells in games are a variety of:

a) Deal damage

b) Summon ally

c) Heal

d) Buff

e) Debuff

f) Detect/reveal shit

Does it matter if you have a few spells that cover all roles and can be enhanced by leveling up, or you have 400-1000000s of spells that are variations of the same thing, just stronger and sometimes with a slightly different particle effect? Autism at its finest faggot.

If you need excel spreadsheets to play kingmaker, you are dumb.

I never said you did, faggot. I said the class interface resembled an excel spreadshit, having tons of useless numbers to make you feel it is important.

Wrong, very wrong. You can't even aim down sights in FL3.

This is false. Have you ever actually played FO3? You could zoom in. Sure it wasn't properly implemented, but it was a CRPG, not an FPS.

Hell, I can use multiple "ammo' types in Skyrim, I can use explosive bolts for my crossbow but I can't use special ammo in FL3. FL3 gunplay is honestly worse than skyrim "crossbowplay".

Oh, so you can just add an additional damage modifier on a few weapons, and suddenly the game became better? All it does is change some numbers. I am not saying special ammo is bad, i liked special ammo. But it was hardly that missed in FO3.

You guys are basically nitpicking because you have poor taste in video games and you need to somehow justify it.