Improving Skyrim / Recommended Mods thread (Mostly about Requiem)

[AW8]

I thought that was the same lady from the gameplay demo showing off scripted scenes Radiant AI. But it was a different woman, who lives in the same town. Somethin' in the water in Chorrol.

The first loading screen reads:

Radiant AI allows NPC's to have full schedules, engage in dynamic conversations, and use the enviroments to achieve goals.

I passed Todd's Persuasion check!

Let's dissect it:

Radiant AI allows NPC's to have full schedules

A half-lie. They have schedules, but "full" is a... slight exaggeration.

engage in dynamic conversations

Somewhat true I guess. Their conversation topics change as you complete quests, although their conversations are just exchanges of randomly chosen responses.

and use the enviroments to achieve goals.

Oh Todd, you sneaky rogue! Such lies, such vicious lies!

Somewhat related is the fact that I've just started (re-)playing Black Mesa, the Half-Life mod for the Source 2007 engine. In a fit of madness, they have adopted a conversation system similar to the one seen in Oblivion.

Spoiler

I had a security guard and a scientist follow me, and the security guard said
"Well, it can't get any worse than this. Or can it?"
upon which the scientist waited 3 seconds before replying:
"Shut up!"

Another conversational gem was the scientist asking
"How's the debugging procedure coming along?"
and the security guard's answer, an awkward 3 seconds of pause later:
"You bet."

EDIT: Watched the entire video and I don't know if I've seen a single video so filled of Todd's lies before. Almost everything that transpires is scripted or works different than how it does in the released game, and the events are so derpy that... I... I mean, what? That bookseller is batshit insane. That video is insane.

 

[corvus]

Oh Todd, you sneaky rogue! Such lies, such vicious lies!

Somewhat related is the fact that I've just started (re-)playing Black Mesa, the Half-Life mod for the Source 2007 engine. In a fit of madness, they have adopted a conversation system similar to the one seen in Oblivion.

I had a security guard and a scientist follow me, and the security guard said
"Well, it can't get any worse than this. Or can it?"
upon which the scientist waited 3 seconds before replying:
"Shut up!"

Another conversational gem was the scientist asking
"How's the debugging procedure coming along?"
and the security guard's answer, an awkward 3 seconds of pause later:
"You bet."

At least the players called out this derpy nonsense, making Bethesda cut back on the dynamic conversation shit. Yet, there are still some players who think that NPC's stopping to tell you their life's story EVERY time you walk by them is "good characterization". "Good dialogue". I wonder if DraQ prefers Skyrim's clunky nonsense to Morrowind's much more eloquent system. You stop in front of someone and they call you an outlander/muthsera, and you have to engage conversation with them to get anything deeper than that.

Anyway, I'm late to the Skyrim party here. I got it over Christmas time and have just now done the heavy-lifting part of the modding routine. I haven't tried out Requiem yet, but the gameplay mods I do have make the game challenging enough for me while leaving room for me to take out some things and add others if I don't like it. ACE Combat Skills, Duel - Combat Realism, Deadly Dragons, etc. I'm wondering if anyone has tried out the Civil War Overhaul? In theory this is probably one of the "must have" mods to make Skyrim more enjoyable in the long-run.

 

[DraQ]

Radiant AI allows NPC's to have full schedules

A half-lie. They have schedules, but "full" is a... slight exaggeration.

How do you define "full"?
They can and do have both daily schedules and ones involving other periods of time, so I'd say it's true.

engage in dynamic conversations

Somewhat true I guess. Their conversation topics change as you complete quests, although their conversations are just exchanges of randomly chosen responses.

That one is also true although the game would have worked better without.
I guess more rules leading to less nonsensical exchanges and better dialogues would have helped too.

and use the enviroments to achieve goals.

Oh Todd, you sneaky rogue! Such lies, such vicious lies!

Actually that one is technically true, depending on how unreasonable is your interpretation of goals.

No they won't have their own long-term agendas, and won't be scheming to achieve it.
An NPC can, for example go obtain some food if their goal is set this way. It doesn't have to be particular food in particular location. Depending on NPC's AI setting they may or may not engage in unlawful acts to achieve goals (unfortunately, the AI is derpy, so chances are they will be slaughtered by ASOTIL when trying to get some bread for the supper, which makes this particular part detrimental to the gameplay).
The AI may also seek weapon when in combat (which is an actual improvement), or spontaneously attack someone they hate (which isn't used in any way apart from provoking riots with illusion spells for no good reason, and seeing the example of thievery it might be better this way, because I don't see *Bethesda* being able to avert the giant tsunami of murderslaughter sweeping all life in the province that would result from their implementation).

It's funny that among so many actual lies you picked one statement that was at the very least technically true (nevermind sloppy implementation and horrible use of said mechanics).

Somewhat related is the fact that I've just started (re-)playing Black Mesa, the Half-Life mod for the Source 2007 engine. In a fit of madness, they have adopted a conversation system similar to the one seen in Oblivion.

Your memory is faulty. This is the system used by original H-L in 1998. It still flows better than any dialogue in Oblivion, partly thanks to better delivery, partly due to intentional vagueness, and partly because facility where everything went to shit and situation stays consistently tense is a more homogeneous and predictable environment than Cyrodiil Generic Fantasyland.

I wonder if DraQ prefers Skyrim's clunky nonsense to Morrowind's much more eloquent system.

DraQ obviously doesn't.

That said, being able to overhear conversations or even having information told to you directly on NPCs own initiative are viable alternatives and even better additions to just asking about rumors. So are couriers delivering letters (nice to see it brought back from DF) and actual generic reactivity.

 

[Lancehead]

I like the guard reactive dialogue in Skyrim. They can comment on pc's skills, some of the quests, titles, guild memberships, guild progress/questline, items in inventory and weapons/spells equipped and drawn. The main problem is that there are no proper rules set up so that a guard doesn't hail you as a thane only to tell you a minute later that he'll cut your hand off if he finds it in his pocket.

And the main problem with the conversations npcs have among themselves is that they're too repetitive and get old fast. Nazeem going around patronizing everyone at the Whiterun market adds ambience, but it gets boring after about the second time.

 

[Turisas]

^ Interesting NPCs are way more... interesting than vanilla NPCs anyway.

 

[racofer]

Ureni moar like Urine amirite

 

[AW8]

How do you define "full"?
They can and do have both daily schedules and ones involving other periods of time, so I'd say it's true.

I was thinking full as in "filled", making fun of the amount of time they you know, do nothing but stand or sit in one place. :D

Actually that one is technically true, depending on how unreasonable is your interpretation of goals.

No they won't have their own long-term agendas, and won't be scheming to achieve it.
An NPC can, for example go obtain some food if their goal is set this way. It doesn't have to be particular food in particular location. Depending on NPC's AI setting they may or may not engage in unlawful acts to achieve goals (unfortunately, the AI is derpy, so chances are they will be slaughtered by ASOTIL when trying to get some bread for the supper, which makes this particular part detrimental to the gameplay).
The AI may also seek weapon when in combat (which is an actual improvement), or spontaneously attack someone they hate (which isn't used in any way apart from provoking riots with illusion spells for no good reason, and seeing the example of thievery it might be better this way, because I don't see *Bethesda* being able to avert the giant tsunami of murderslaughter sweeping all life in the province that would result from their implementation).

It's funny that among so many actual lies you picked one statement that was at the very least technically true (nevermind sloppy implementation and horrible use of said mechanics).

I had completely forgotten about the thieves like the Bruma fence who steals food!

Also "using the enviroments to achieve goals" sounds pretty inflated compared to "able to pick up weapons if not carrying any" and "able to open doors". Alright, not false, but still marketing-speak I guess.
They could as well say that "NPC's live rich, varied and realistic lives", and then point toward the fact that NPC's sleep, eat and sometimes travel to other cities to stand about there instead.

What is an RPG?

What is a lie?

Your memory is faulty. This is the system used by original H-L in 1998. It still flows better than any dialogue in Oblivion, partly thanks to better delivery, partly due to intentional vagueness, and partly because facility where everything went to shit and situation stays consistently tense is a more homogeneous and predictable environment than Cyrodiil Generic Fantasyland.

I recently replayed HL, and I never had more than 1 follower at the same time. Are you certain they could talk to each other? Was there also an awkward pause between replies, and did the reply have nothing to do with the initial statement?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

My favorite Interesting NPC(tm) is the redguard that says bedding maidens is the same as slaying bandits. It's all a matter of skill, and their pain is our pleasure.

The NPCs in Oblivion have full agendas, as in tasks that occupy their entire time (except when it bugs out and the poor guy can't go to sleep because there's no bed available by the time he's supposed to go to sleep, then they just wander randomly or stare at a wall for hours). The UESP has recorded the schedules of all NPCs in painstakingly detail for some reason, if anyone's curious.

 

[Lemming42]

Man I love the Interesting NPCs mod. My favourite is that Khajiit lady in Riften who keeps trying to sell you crappy flowers.

The moment that I realized just how cool a mod it was, though, was after I talked to some Draugr woman. She said she was a Nordic Queen from 1239123091283 years ago back when the Falmer were the Snow Elves and not cave-dwelling trash mobs, and gave me a story about it. Then she requested that I kill her in battle so that her soul could go to Sovngarde.

Long after I'd forgotten all about the encounter, I went to Sovngarde at the end of the game and there she was, in human form. Serious moment of "whoa holy shit that rules".

 

[Turisas]

^ It has some really solid voicework too, for the most part. I mean you can still usually tell it's from a mod, but it's not a jarring difference like most mods with voices.

 

[hell bovine]

In a way. Kids are both more likely to like Vanilla Skyrim (due to sheer inexperience, everything is new to them) but also the ones who won't whine the hell about pointless shit. She's laughing off bugs that would see people screaming at forums for better QA. I'm very happy that this cousin of mine might shape up to be very codexian and I wonder if I'll manage to turn my kids into connoisseurs as well.

She's very much a graphics whore. I told her that myself.

To be honest, a lot of Skyrim bugs are hilarious (with the exception of people who think gaming is 'serious business', those will rant; but then again some of the 'Skyrim roleplaying is serious business' tend to be hilarious as well).
PS
If she's fifteen, wait till she discovers all those porn mods for Skyrim. Then you'll regret teaching her anything about gaming. :D

 

[Gord]

Interesting NPCs is a mixed bag. There are several cool ones, esp some companions are way above Bethesda's vanilla companions, but there is some derpy fanfic-level stuff, too.

 

[Lemming42]

Interesting NPCs is a mixed bag. There are several cool ones, esp some companions are way above Bethesda's vanilla companions, but there is some derpy fanfic-level stuff, too.

I've found some quests to be derpy and generally retarded, but I don't think I've seen a bad standalone non-quest NPC. Although granted I usually walk away immediately if they don't seem interesting enough.
There's a cool quest with this vampire chick in the cornerclub and it turns into this weird massive quest that also involves this argonian guy. I can't remember much about it, other than that it was kinda fun and had a framerate-eating sequence.

 

[circ]

Hnnngh. New unofficial patches released. Wonder if I need to start new game #32874239875. And what it breaks this time. Some mod in conjunction with USKP already breaks brawling with Better Vampires, and something's borked Riften city guard greeting script so you have to take the water route every time to unlock the front gate first time.

 

[circ]

I like the guard reactive dialogue in Skyrim. They can comment on pc's skills, some of the quests, titles, guild memberships, guild progress/questline, items in inventory and weapons/spells equipped and drawn. The main problem is that there are no proper rules set up so that a guard doesn't hail you as a thane only to tell you a minute later that he'll cut your hand off if he finds it in his pocket.

And the main problem with the conversations npcs have among themselves is that they're too repetitive and get old fast. Nazeem going around patronizing everyone at the Whiterun market adds ambience, but it gets boring after about the second time.

There's the guard fix overhaul mod. Haven't tried it myself but it's supposed to add a bunch of rules.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

gif is inaccurate for requiem because the first arrow would have killed him even if it struck him in the toe.

I really don't get the comparisons to Dark Souls ITT. Requiem isn't complete or balanced enough to compare to any full game, let alone DS. It doesn't fix Skyrim that much (if any).

From quests, to lore, to the most basic elements of the system (no ability stats, anyone?) Skyrim is designed to be a casual game. All Requiem does is come in and mess with a bunch of surface elements like combat damage and enemy stats in obtuse and frustratingly illogical ways, adds a bunch of weird shit like invisible enemies and antronoch forges, then calls it fixed and slaps a big "teh role playing" sticker on it.

I don't really blame the author for this too much. The fact is, Skyrim itself needs a complete redesign for a truly hardcore experience to be viable and this guy is just doing his best. No, I blame all the fans like you and Draq for running around claiming it fixes everything and then telling everyone to get good rather than recognizing that not everyone enjoys playing an incongruently and illogically designed piece of not-fun shit as much as you do.

 

[Lemming42]

^ Yeah, Requiem is a bit shit, but there's that saying - you can't polish a turd. Requiem is very superficial and does rely a lot on the whole "LOOK, YOU JUST DIED IN 1 HIT!!! THIS GAME IS HARDCORE AS SHIT!!!" feeling, but at least it adds a reasonable amount of challenge to a game that was in dire need of at least some difficulty, even the "artifical difficulty" that Requiem offers.

That said, I do prefer SkyRe. Or, at least, the version of it that I have since SkyRe seems to radically change everything with every other update.

But, as you say, it's a casual game and ultimately nothing can change that.

 

[imweasel]

No, I blame all the fans like you and Draq for running around claiming it fixes everything and then telling everyone to get good rather than recognizing that not everyone enjoys playing an incongruently and illogically designed piece of not-fun shit as much as you do.

 

[Akratus]

^ Yeah, Requiem is a bit shit, but there's that saying - you can't polish a turd. Requiem is very superficial and does rely a lot on the whole "LOOK, YOU JUST DIED IN 1 HIT!!! THIS GAME IS HARDCORE AS SHIT!!!" feeling, but at least it adds a reasonable amount of challenge to a game that was in dire need of at least some difficulty, even the "artifical difficulty" that Requiem offers.

That said, I do prefer SkyRe. Or, at least, the version of it that I have since SkyRe seems to radically change everything with every other update.

But, as you say, it's a casual game and ultimately nothing can change that.

 

[Lemming42]

^ Yeah, Requiem is a bit shit, but there's that saying - you can't polish a turd. Requiem is very superficial and does rely a lot on the whole "LOOK, YOU JUST DIED IN 1 HIT!!! THIS GAME IS HARDCORE AS SHIT!!!" feeling, but at least it adds a reasonable amount of challenge to a game that was in dire need of at least some difficulty, even the "artifical difficulty" that Requiem offers.

That said, I do prefer SkyRe. Or, at least, the version of it that I have since SkyRe seems to radically change everything with every other update.

But, as you say, it's a casual game and ultimately nothing can change that.

Why can't anything change its' casual-ness?

Well, I guess something could. Like scrapping it and starting it over again.

 

[circ]

So SkyRe.

I'm playing a bosmer ranger type, mostly bow but having trouble deciding on melee weapon. I used a steel scimitar I looted but then I made a redguard and I guess scimitar isn't that bosmer-like. So after thinking about longsword, I crafted a steel shortspear. But holy crap does shortspear suck. If anything armored comes along, which is pretty much everything - I'd swear even sabercats and bears have some kind of armor, you're kiting like crazy. If it's a mage you're dead. Although wilderness summon helps.

Anyway. There's broadsword, but it gets no special perk. Shortsword maybe? Interesting perk. Maybe shortspear doesn't suck so bad if I take bleeding perk? Although bleeding was a joke without SkyRe.

Got elven smithing perk and I got ah, 15 or 16 moonstone, VERY little quicksilver - like 5? After mining Dawnstar mine. Can't make any kind of weapon I like. Oh yeah, playing 1h spec - nothing in offhand for block.
So, stick with shortspear? Or give shortsword a try?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

gif is inaccurate for requiem because the first arrow would have killed him even if it struck him in the toe.

I really don't get the comparisons to Dark Souls ITT. Requiem isn't complete or balanced enough to compare to any full game, let alone DS. It doesn't fix Skyrim that much (if any).

From quests, to lore, to the most basic elements of the system (no ability stats, anyone?) Skyrim is designed to be a casual game. All Requiem does is come in and mess with a bunch of surface elements like combat damage and enemy stats in obtuse and frustratingly illogical ways, adds a bunch of weird shit like invisible enemies and antronoch forges, then calls it fixed and slaps a big "teh role playing" sticker on it.

I don't really blame the author for this too much. The fact is, Skyrim itself needs a complete redesign for a truly hardcore experience to be viable and this guy is just doing his best. No, I blame all the fans like you and Draq for running around claiming it fixes everything and then telling everyone to get good rather than recognizing that not everyone enjoys playing an incongruently and illogically designed piece of not-fun shit as much as you do.

Well, when I say IT FIXES ERRYTHING MAH BOI I'm obviously not being serious. But the main focus of the game is killing shit, and Requiem makes that a lot more interesting, so in my eyes it improves the game. And as hard as the combat may be, it's still Skyrim so you get plenty of resources to deal with whatever it throws at you. And of course, I know that when you say "incongruently and illogically designed piece of not-fun shit", you are really talking about archers ruining your shit because bumrush tactics don't work against ranged enemies and you don't want to be "forced" to "roleplay" a character with a minimum of defensive ability.

 

[Excidium]

Play Gothic 2 instead

 

[Lhynn]

No CK, it doesnt make it more interesting, it just makes my eyes roll at the utter stupidity.
SkyRe goes in more interesting directions while keeping the challenge up, but after certain point it becomes shit, while requiem does seem to get better.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

And of course, I know that when you say "incongruently and illogically designed piece of not-fun shit", you are really talking about archers

Nope, nope, nope. Talking about the archers, the hp bloat and regen bloat on enemies like the dragon priests, the stupid amount of enemies added to each level (because killing dragur is so fun I want to do it literally 10x more than in vanilla), etc. I probably would have a whole lot more to add if I had wanted to waste any more time on it.

We've been over this before though. "git gud, troll, troll, troll, etc..."