Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Is AI the future of Indie RPGs?

Zed

Codex Staff
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
17,068
Codex USB, 2014
I'm not wholly against the (partial) AI takeover.
There aren't many AA/AAA game devs that leverage actual artistry any more. The concept artists they hire are forced to draw the same shit over and over again.
And for indies -- RPG indies requiring character concept art, cultural concept art, etc etc, in particular -- this is an amazingly powerful tool.
First part is mostly my sentiment. But more so I am against it on principle but I don't think it changes much from the current trends. Concept art and all the visual designs in games has been increasingly automated over the years, which I've complained about for nearly a decade now and think is one of the main reasons why all modern games look so ugly and retarded, and most big budget games now days outsource stuff like concept art to third party companies, or asset creation to third world Indians, etc. This has even been happening with indies now, with people outsourcing art to things like Fiverr rather than having a dedicated visual designer. The AI (or as someone else put it better, procedural art generation) will just make this process more and more efficient and assembly line like, which the average NPC seems to be fine with since it means more things to consume at a faster rate. It's just a tool that mostly benefits big companies that want to produce more crap more quickly.

I disagree with the idea that this is somehow going to be a great boon for indie development, though, since part of the whole appeal of indies was that they represented something small scale, more personal and unique in contrast to corporate games. Now indie devs can also have access to the equivalent of 500 outsourced Indians at the push of a button. I think it's kind of the same thing as the effect that all the advancements in stuff like procedural generation had on indies, where instead of suddenly seeing a bunch of amazing large scale, well thought out RPGs with "infinite unique content", you instead got 6,000,000 Procedural Metroidvania Rogue-lite Souls-likes. Or the effect that things like easy to use engines and asset stores have had on the amount of shovelware. The only indie games in the past decade that were worth playing were the ones that still seemed to be made a by small, closely knit teams of dedicated people, that were willing to put a lot of human effort into making something they were passionate about.

It seems to be a trend that whenever a new technology like this appears you get a bunch of people saying "wow now I can finally achieve my dream project," (look at things like digital cameras and CGI in film making) and then they produce some asset flip tier garbage, because the kind of person who wants to put in less and less effort, and wants to automate more and more aspects of their supposed "passion" was never gong to make something worth looking at anyway. .
Good points.

I don't think it will suddenly make possible the creation of games, A-Z, as if this fills in the last remaining missing puzzle pieces for a bunch of indies whose sole shortcoming is art. At least not any interesting games, as you say.
But for indies who leverage AI generated art for conceptual art, maybe place-holder assets if nothing else, it surely beats googling for reference pictures. Like I said, a powerful tool.
 

quaesta

Educated
Joined
Oct 27, 2022
Messages
152
Could've just ended the thread title after "future."

A lot of jobs are going away. The next few years are gonna be a scary time.
It's a scary time. A lot of people are gonna get fucked in the ass. Hell I tried using AI to make some song covers for my music and it worked well. I'm a firm believer of old good and new bad so I still find people to draw my covers/make them myself, but I can see the waning demand for artists coming.

I wonder how programming is gonna be impacted by AI. I ask because programmer isn't just writing code, it's maintenance, requirements gathering, and a bunch of meta stuff around the actual programming itself.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
1,968
Location
Adelaide
I wonder how programming is gonna be impacted by AI. I ask because programmer isn't just writing code, it's maintenance, requirements gathering, and a bunch of meta stuff around the actual programming itself.
I recall when copilot started getting traction a lot of professional programmers started asking people to never use it because it'll put people out of a job eventually if they did. And yeah its worrying because you're basically giving Microsoft the ability to full automate their entire workforce, count me the hell out they can barely do anything with humans behind it. I do think people are worried. But at this stage all copilot does is the equivalent of looking up code on StackOverflow so its threatening but not to the extent of writing code better than the average person. The ethical dilemma is when it writes code better and faster than humans then we have a big problem on our hands. The main thing was that programmers work could be stolen and integrated into the AI and it also goes very much against the spirit of opensourced software (because its now a paid thing).

TLDR; Do Not Use Copilot.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
1,945
I wonder how programming is gonna be impacted by AI. I ask because programmer isn't just writing code, it's maintenance, requirements gathering, and a bunch of meta stuff around the actual programming itself.
I recall when copilot started getting traction a lot of professional programmers started asking people to never use it because it'll put people out of a job eventually if they did. And yeah its worrying because you're basically giving Microsoft the ability to full automate their entire workforce, count me the hell out they can barely do anything with humans behind it. I do think people are worried. But at this stage all copilot does is the equivalent of looking up code on StackOverflow so its threatening but not to the extent of writing code better than the average person. The ethical dilemma is when it writes code better and faster than humans then we have a big problem on our hands. The main thing was that programmers work could be stolen and integrated into the AI and it also goes very much against the spirit of opensourced software (because its now a paid thing).

TLDR; Do Not Use Copilot.
What jobs are actually in danger due to automation?

Call centres/1st line support: yes (...with major drawbacks).
Factory workers: yes (but not all)

Manual labourers/farmers/plumbers/cleaners: no (no way!)
Computer programmers: no
Artists: no

Aspects of some of these jobs can be augmented with automation (e.g. a robotic vaccuum cleaners, auto pilot tractors, Copilot, image generators).
But they can never replace or even reduce the human factors. Unless some robust humanoid robot is developed with generalized intelligence that can perform human tasks there is no way to replace humans.
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,268
The ethical dilemma is when it writes code better and faster than humans then we have a big problem on our hands. The main thing was that programmers work could be stolen and integrated into the AI and it also goes very much against the spirit of opensourced software (because its now a paid thing).

Beside obvious ethical problem, and assuming machine learning get to the point ( I don't think it's going to ever happen, at least not with the current tool and physical knowledge we currently dispose of), the problem is that you're going to eventually dry up the well. For anything art related, anyone can start scribbling shit as a hobbie, plus we have centuries of past art to draw upon, but that's not the case for programing.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
1,968
Location
Adelaide
For anything art related, anyone can start scribbling shit as a hobbie, plus we have centuries of past art to draw upon, but that's not the case for programing.
Oh I definitely agree there, I just think long term it'll be an issue. We're screwed if the mentality of "well I don't need to learn this because the AI will do it for me" ever takes off.
Sort of like in Star Trek how Picard still makes Wine but replicators are a thing because they appreciate the process and the result. As long as humans have that mentality instead we'll be ok.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
1,945
For anything art related, anyone can start scribbling shit as a hobbie, plus we have centuries of past art to draw upon, but that's not the case for programing.
Oh I definitely agree there, I just think long term it'll be an issue. We're screwed if the mentality of "well I don't need to learn this because the AI will do it for me" ever takes off.
Sort of like in Star Trek how Picard still makes Wine but replicators are a thing because they appreciate the process and the result. As long as humans have that mentality instead we'll be ok.
The esteem you hold AI in is mythical. It will likely never exist or at least not for a very long time, so for now don't worry too much - but you can start worrying about it when it does exist.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
2,095
Location
DFW, Texas
For anything art related, anyone can start scribbling shit as a hobbie, plus we have centuries of past art to draw upon, but that's not the case for programing.
Oh I definitely agree there, I just think long term it'll be an issue. We're screwed if the mentality of "well I don't need to learn this because the AI will do it for me" ever takes off.
Sort of like in Star Trek how Picard still makes Wine but replicators are a thing because they appreciate the process and the result. As long as humans have that mentality instead we'll be ok.
The esteem you hold AI in is mythical. It will likely never exist or at least not for a very long time, so for now don't worry too much - but you can start worrying about it when it does exist.
Looks like 3D modelers are next up on the chopping block:

 

Rincewind

Magister
Patron
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
2,518
Location
down under
Codex+ Now Streaming!
What if I told you all intelligence is artificial.

Also, Neo-Luddism is especially ironic when carried out over technological platforms. You really gotta do it without involving any electricity whatsoever in order not to look like a complete fool.

Even using an old-school telephone to communicate your anti-technological development ideas is pushing it, as I see it...
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,274
Location
Ingrija
8qskivfw8vl91.png

Ruthless.
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,268
1:40, first video, beyond retarded statement. If there is one thing machine learning is good at, it is identifying pattern, in this case a pose.
 

Zed

Codex Staff
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
17,068
Codex USB, 2014
On another fourum I saw comments by an artist who said that kind of work has dried up. They still do 3D at work, but when they freelance from home, no one wants to hire them to a make a picture of that one weird thing any longer. There was also a comment where this guy said he is writing assignments for school using AI. He gives it a prompt, edits the output, and hands it in. His teachers don't know the difference, and he gets his homework done 4X faster than before. So if coplot gets good it will be like that.

I don't think narrow AI will replace human programmers. It may be a helper, but general AI certainly will. General could be here tomorrow, or in 100 years. I watched this video where they showed the history of AI, and at one point in the late 1960s they thought general AI would be achieved within 8 years. After that failure, it became a fringe subject in comp sci. Big data changed all that.
Programming was already heading towards automation/semi-automation with intellisense, barely-have-to-do-anything-SDKs, and increasingly powerful word processing in tools. Dunno when we'll land in "promt-based programming" in software development but I think even then at least programmers will be needed, like you say. Maybe fewer of them though. I wouldn't mind, I don't think my bosses will ever be tech-savvy enough to care beyond "get shit done, doesn't matter how", and this would give me even more time to slack off during work hours. :positive:
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,059
I wonder how programming is gonna be impacted by AI. I ask because programmer isn't just writing code, it's maintenance, requirements gathering, and a bunch of meta stuff around the actual programming itself.
That's how you get Skynet/Omnius.
Omnius is bad fanfiction. As Leto II said: "The target of the Jihad was a machine-attitude as much as the machines. Humans had set those machines to usurp our sense of beauty, our necessary selfdom out of which we make living judgments." AI replacing everything from artists to programmers to simple essay writing in school sounds exactly like what Frank Herbert was warning us about.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
1,945


A dose of skepticism but actually this guy is being extremely generous to this rubbish.

This opinion was obsolete even before the video was posted. There are already multiple AIs that have solved this problem. The speed of AI development is accelerating like crazy now.

Not sure if serious, but: within the past 5 days this video became obsolete? Would like to see some of the advancements you are referring to.
 

Non-Edgy Gamer

Grand Dragon
Patron
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
15,243
Strap Yourselves In
This opinion was obsolete even before the video was posted. There are already multiple AIs that have solved this problem. The speed of AI development is accelerating like crazy now.
Not sure if serious, but: within the past 5 days this video became obsolete? Would like to see some of the advancements you are referring to.
Learn to read. It was obsolete before it was posted.

The guy is basing all of this off of an article or two he read, and the fact that he personally hasn't seen AI being used for professional grade art, even when it's already being used for it.

His entire video rides off of the idea that all you can do with image AIs is type in words and generate random images. And if he had even bothered to do even the barest research, he'd know that's wrong.

At the end, he even talks about creating different AIs for different art styles as if it's unlikely or difficult. :lol:
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
1,945
This opinion was obsolete even before the video was posted. There are already multiple AIs that have solved this problem. The speed of AI development is accelerating like crazy now.
Not sure if serious, but: within the past 5 days this video became obsolete? Would like to see some of the advancements you are referring to.
Learn to read. It was obsolete before it was posted.

The guy is basing all of this off of an article or two he read, and the fact that he personally hasn't seen AI being used for professional grade art, even when it's already being used for it.

His entire video rides off of the idea that all you can do with image AIs is type in words and generate random images. And if he had even bothered to do even the barest research, he'd know that's wrong.

At the end, he even talks about creating different AIs for different art styles as if it's unlikely or difficult. :lol:
Again, WHAT improvements? The video is 5 days old, and I note that the opinion expressed is very much still accurate. Waving your hand and claiming that is ancient history....is difficult to take seriously given your unbounded enthusiasm for proompting. The reality is that AI art is destined to be relegated to a very narrow niche in the art industry.

This guy in the video an AI art enthusiast, he makes tutorials on it so that explains his gushing praise but even he is somewhat realistic about its potential unlike your fantasy about being a proompter.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,543
There wasn't shortage of 2d concept art even until now and 3d is exponentially more difficult, thats why they show off 80's pixar stuff.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
2,095
Location
DFW, Texas
This opinion was obsolete even before the video was posted. There are already multiple AIs that have solved this problem. The speed of AI development is accelerating like crazy now.
Not sure if serious, but: within the past 5 days this video became obsolete? Would like to see some of the advancements you are referring to.
Learn to read. It was obsolete before it was posted.

The guy is basing all of this off of an article or two he read, and the fact that he personally hasn't seen AI being used for professional grade art, even when it's already being used for it.

His entire video rides off of the idea that all you can do with image AIs is type in words and generate random images. And if he had even bothered to do even the barest research, he'd know that's wrong.

At the end, he even talks about creating different AIs for different art styles as if it's unlikely or difficult. :lol:
Again, WHAT improvements? The video is 5 days old, and I note that the opinion expressed is very much still accurate. Waving your hand and claiming that is ancient history....is difficult to take seriously given your unbounded enthusiasm for proompting. The reality is that AI art is destined to be relegated to a very narrow niche in the art industry.

This guy in the video an AI art enthusiast, he makes tutorials on it so that explains his gushing praise but even he is somewhat realistic about its potential unlike your fantasy about being a proompter.


What Stable Diffusion and other AI art generators do is relatively simple in comparison to that little robot car.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
1,945
This opinion was obsolete even before the video was posted. There are already multiple AIs that have solved this problem. The speed of AI development is accelerating like crazy now.
Not sure if serious, but: within the past 5 days this video became obsolete? Would like to see some of the advancements you are referring to.
Learn to read. It was obsolete before it was posted.

The guy is basing all of this off of an article or two he read, and the fact that he personally hasn't seen AI being used for professional grade art, even when it's already being used for it.

His entire video rides off of the idea that all you can do with image AIs is type in words and generate random images. And if he had even bothered to do even the barest research, he'd know that's wrong.

At the end, he even talks about creating different AIs for different art styles as if it's unlikely or difficult. :lol:
Again, WHAT improvements? The video is 5 days old, and I note that the opinion expressed is very much still accurate. Waving your hand and claiming that is ancient history....is difficult to take seriously given your unbounded enthusiasm for proompting. The reality is that AI art is destined to be relegated to a very narrow niche in the art industry.

This guy in the video an AI art enthusiast, he makes tutorials on it so that explains his gushing praise but even he is somewhat realistic about its potential unlike your fantasy about being a proompter.


What Stable Diffusion and other AI art generators do is relatively simple in comparison to that little robot car.

Not as impressive as this
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
2,095
Location
DFW, Texas
This opinion was obsolete even before the video was posted. There are already multiple AIs that have solved this problem. The speed of AI development is accelerating like crazy now.
Not sure if serious, but: within the past 5 days this video became obsolete? Would like to see some of the advancements you are referring to.
Learn to read. It was obsolete before it was posted.

The guy is basing all of this off of an article or two he read, and the fact that he personally hasn't seen AI being used for professional grade art, even when it's already being used for it.

His entire video rides off of the idea that all you can do with image AIs is type in words and generate random images. And if he had even bothered to do even the barest research, he'd know that's wrong.

At the end, he even talks about creating different AIs for different art styles as if it's unlikely or difficult. :lol:
Again, WHAT improvements? The video is 5 days old, and I note that the opinion expressed is very much still accurate. Waving your hand and claiming that is ancient history....is difficult to take seriously given your unbounded enthusiasm for proompting. The reality is that AI art is destined to be relegated to a very narrow niche in the art industry.

This guy in the video an AI art enthusiast, he makes tutorials on it so that explains his gushing praise but even he is somewhat realistic about its potential unlike your fantasy about being a proompter.


What Stable Diffusion and other AI art generators do is relatively simple in comparison to that little robot car.

Not as impressive as this

It's no wonder you got swayed by that amateur, when you have no idea what roadblocks AI has been stumbling over for the last few decades. You should really start preparing yourself emotionally, because the floodgates on neural network technology are now open, and we are entering a phase of rapid and accelerating development.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom