Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Yosharian]

Yeah AGI is too much of a god stat. Basically every character needs a high AGI.

Also agreed on the DEX/STR point, STR should be able to stand in for DEX at least partially from a to-hit perspective

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Guys doesn't dex matter only if you knife people and strength for fisting and machete?

 

[Yosharian]

Nope DEX modifies all to-hit rolls in melee. Aside from Steroid's unique attack

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Nope DEX modifies all to-hit rolls in melee. Aside from Steroid's unique attack

Oh ok, guess str just modifies the damage then.

 

[Yosharian]

Yup

 

[gooseman]

I never took Fidel, for one simple reason: Barry.

if you can't hire Livewire

you already have Grizzly

This is another thing I'm not really a fan of. There's a bunch of mercs who are just so objectively stronger than others... Even within the same bracket. But also the fee scaling seems insane. I mentioned how Fidel became the most expensive merc in the game, but the rest of them get more expensive too (still have no idea why, there's no rhyme or reason to it). I picked Steroid solely because the only other good cheap mechanic (who are incredibly important) is Livewire, which, as I said, is a maphacking whore who kind of just completely ruins the balance. I didn't want to "powergame" and hire the best guys, but ones I thought were cool.
I haven't played 2 enough, but from what I've been told, the merc fees do increase, but they will never charge you more than the top mercs, but will become as good or better than them. Something like that would make shittier mercs like Steroid more usable, but he also charges me 20k+ now. I feel there's just too many underpowered mercs or ones with very unimpactful perks or easily outshined by ones in the same or lower price range.
And yeah, str vs dex is really stupid. It sounds a lot like dnd monks who need like 4 different attributes to be playable at all (unless you do that dual weild monk swords build or whatever... but isnt fisting the entire point of the class?). At the same time, this could just be a special perk or a perk in the str tree to make melee accuracy depend on str instead. And agi definitely needs tweaking. While AP scaling with some stats is probably a good thing (is it?), it's just too much. Anyone with low agi is a useless cripple who cant do anything at all. And I'm sure none of the enemies have low agi either, given they can run a circuit around the entire map with their kneecaps blown off and still have enough AP to slice a tomato.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Objectively bad hires have always existed in Jagged Alliance. In fact, 3 is much more balanced than any of the other games. None of the mercs in this game are actually shit, whereas doing, say, a MERC only run of 2 and trying to get the likes of Flo to do anything constructive is an ordeal. I actually miss that - although mainly what I miss is a bigger roster in general. It let you carry on with the campaign more easily after losing mercs, and it let you self-regulate the difficulty by picking the shit ones. There was also a certain sense of accomplishment in picking lost causes and turning them into competent soldiers.

I can't agree with the agi thing either. Someone like Hitman has pretty bad agi, so not a lot of AP. It fits his character, and is compensated for by his high marksmanship for a low price, which makes him a very good merc to have early on. It's true that a merc with great physical stats will eventually outpace him, but that's how it should be and there's nothing wrong with that.

And I'm sure none of the enemies have low agi either, given they can run a circuit around the entire map with their kneecaps blown off and still have enough AP to slice a tomato.

Supposedly the enemies get extra movement points by default. This could be turned off via mods when I last played.

 

[gooseman]

In fact, 3 is much more balanced than any of the other games. None of the mercs in this game are actually shit, whereas doing, say, a MERC only run of 2 and trying to get the likes of Flo to do anything constructive is an ordeal. I actually miss that a little bit - although mainly what I miss is a bigger roster in general. It let you carry on the campaign more easily after losing mercs, and it let you self-regulate the difficulty by picking the shit ones.

Yes, it seemed more interesting to have more options. Cheap shitty mercs had uses, I've seen people set flo to train militia. You could use them to move and sell items. Not much of that going on in 3, since you cant sell and militia training can only be done 4 times per tile. Idk about 2, but this has a lot of chokepoints on strategic map that you can defend without any surprises from the enemy attack forces.
But here, you have very few choices. Want a cheap mechanic? It's Livewire or Steroid. It's very obvious which is better. Livewire's perk is just broken, has high wisdom and ok combat stats. Steroid has shit AP and I think also way worse relations with other mercs: eternal Polish butthurt about Igor (another good cheap merc, I actually had them together and the morale hit made Steroid's AP suck even worse lol) and Ivan, mutual dislike with Fox, MD hates him. This seems to be the case for a lot of choices. Fidel costs way more than Barry and is very annoying in many ways.

 

[destinae vomitus]

Steroid is worthwhile thanks to the sheer virtue of being a mechanic and not to mention a tanky pack mule, but I find that he's very much usable in combat even without pumping up his agi/dex, assuming you're proactively using the run&gun ability with a pistol or SMG early on since it both makes up for his lack of mobility and dex also since it only takes his 90+ marksmanship into account. By the time he's leveled up he'll actually start pulling his weight in combat (pun partly intended) cuz he's bound to have the health perk that effectively grants +3 AP and you can just have him using stims constantly without consequences, which are hardly ever worth using IMO since they'd normally make a merc tired.

At the same though he's competing with Livewire and refuses to work with Ivan, both of whom are undeniably OP, so he's very much the weakest link if looked at from a pure minmax perspective.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Want a cheap mechanic? It's Livewire or Steroid.

Or Kalyna, or you could spring a little bit more for Vicki or Wolf or Nails. You can afford any one of those plus a couple of cheapos even with your starting funds. They're not amazing (apart from Vicki) but they'll get the job done OK and they'll improve as they go. Or you could make your own. There's also nothing stopping you from kicking Steroid to the kerb the moment you have the cash for a proper mechanic.

It's true that if a) you're playing for the first time, and b) you're powergaming, you don't have many attractive options. But why would you want them? You're going to pick the best one and not worry about the rest, doesn't matter if they're a little worse or a lot worse.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Kalyna doesn't have the Mr. Fixit perk, which you definitely want for a field mechanic(hacking, traps). I ended up hiring Kalyna later in the game, as her Leadership is useful for my secondary squad(I'm trying to get the blood samples quickly). Otherwise, she's more of a beginner merc, with her Gewehr rifle and Night Vision perks being specially useful early on.

Hitman comes with Hit the Deck and his special perk takes into account his lack of mobility(gain Focused by staying still), so his low AGI is not by itself crippling. High marksmanship and Recoil Control make him pretty good with mobile shot, in my experience, and he also knows how to throw a grenade. Pretty solid merc who's also one of the best trainers, while being much cheaper than his rival Raider.

All in all, I agree that the game is generally pretty balanced insofar as every merc being useful in some way, but the pricing doesn't really reflect each merc's value. Tbh, I think this is OK in principle, but there's a problem with the lack of variety, so you end up getting the same mercs every time. There's Key's Mercs, a pretty good mod I've talked about before, but if you want balance you'll have to dip into the lua files and raise some salaries, as some are way too low and it makes the game a lot easier.

BTW, I think one of the popular mods, probably Tactical AI Project, nerfs Livewire's superpower, so you can only see the enemies' location before the fight starts.

 

[Yosharian]

I can't agree with the agi thing either. Someone like Hitman has pretty bad agi, so not a lot of AP. It fits his character, and is compensated for by his high marksmanship for a low price, which makes him a very good merc to have early on. It's true that a merc with great physical stats will eventually outpace him, but that's how it should be and there's nothing wrong with that.

Hitman and Kalyna are in competition for the worst mercs in the game

Bad AGI is the least of Hitman's problems, his DEX of 40 is what really messes him up

The only reason you hire Hitman is to teach MRK to someone, then you ditch him for someone actually worth his asking price like Ice

 

[Strange Fellow]

I hired him to snipe people and be a fun character and he performed both jobs very well from the beginning of the game to the end. I don't even remember what Dex affects, apart from melee.

 

[gooseman]

you're powergaming, you don't have many attractive options. But why would you want them? You're going to pick the best one and not worry about the rest, doesn't matter if they're a little worse or a lot worse.

I feel I'm punishing myself by not powergaming. The power gap between some mercs is just really huge. And it's really easy to do. I don't like when games make me feel that.
Kalyna has the lowest iq of any merc in the game. A "little bit more" (over 3 times more) for Vicky over Livewire? 25k out of starting 40? You can get an expensive starting merc, but spending that much on a mechanic to have them sit around fixing guns.. meh. And if you already got a different expensive merc... well, you're out of options.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah the mechanic selection is trash

 

[Strange Fellow]

A "little bit more" (over 3 times more) for Vicky over Livewire? 25k out of starting 40? You can get an expensive starting merc, but spending that much on a mechanic to have them sit around fixing guns.

That's what I did for my first playthrough. She's not just good for mechanics, she is also good at shooting bad guys, and her eternal lockpick is worth its weight in gold. Good starting merc.

Again, I don't understand why you want options if you're just going to pick the optimal one anyway. The character system is basic, there's very little skill involved in finding a good squad configuration. Unless what you want is for every merc to have an explicit class within which everyone has the same stats and price, which would be extremely boring.

To each his own, I guess. I think you need a degree of LARP to fully enjoy this series.

 

[gooseman]

Again, I don't understand why you want options if you're just going to pick the optimal one anyway

I said I dont powergame. The game makes this very hard, because your options are a merc that's objectively broken, a merc that's objectively shit and a merc that's ok,but expensive and wont always be an option. These are not fun or interesting choices. Then there are roles, personality conflicts, traits and unavailability that further limit your already non existent options.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Some mercs aren't available in the beginning, and there are personal conflicts(they could do even more with this), so the idea is you end up with a different roster every time, as you become limited by your choices. It doesn't really work that way, because there's no reason you wouldn't eventually get, say, Barry or Livewire, even if they're not available in the beginning.

In some aspects it's better. If you want a medic, for example, there's an interesting choice between MD and Fox. The latter is more versatile(heh), but is hated by Buns and Mouse, who you can also use as medics in a pinch(later on there's a quest where you must have either MD or Q). Some other skills(Mechanics, Explosives, Leadership) should be more like this.

It'd also be cool if you had special hiring options for mercs who like you, like month long contracts; mercs who left you temporarily for personal reasons or simply left due to disagreements(I think this exists, but I haven't seen it yet); stronger personal quirks that affect gameplay like in classic JA and maybe the ability to hire militia in special cases.

 

[Strange Fellow]

the idea is you end up with a different roster every time

This is the thing. The idea that you'll replay the game using the same characters as before, with the same voice lines and the same strengths and weaknesses, in order to have a slightly easier time beating a game you've already beaten is completely insane to me.

 

[Zombra]

To gooseman's point, the small roster is a low key issue at first but it turns into one of the (few) major disappointments of the game. In JA1, DG, & 2, the roster is so huge that you can feel your way through it. You're expected to begin by hiring individuals and combinations that aren't going to work out; and proceed by switching up your team, making sacrifices to fine tune an overpriced person here, someone with hidden weaknesses there, two mercs who are both great but refuse to work together, etc. until you've finally built a group you can afford, who can function as a team, and who have sufficient skills to achieve your objectives. The first two games even have an "informant" system (which sadly disappeared in JA2) to help you identify trouble spots and make decisions about team management. In JA3 the cast of characters is simply too small for this level of depth to exist.

 

[Virgulto]

What's a good stat distribution for the custom Merc? I used to max wisdom and have average marksmanship and mechanic but it was a pain early game and i abandoned the game.

 

[razvedchiki]

max everything exept medicine/explosives/mechanics. you will cover those skills with the mercs you will hire ( livewire/barry etc).
you need leadership because it dictates travel speed in the strategic map, dex+mark to shoot properly and agility for action points. str/health depends if you will melee or not. wisdom to learn faster.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

If we're minmaxing, you can safely dump your IMP's wisdom as long you're planning to give him all your magazines. It's 40-50 points you can put somewhere else directly. You'll still gain field experience, just at a slightly slower rate.

Whatever you do, just give him high Leadership because there are very few options for high Leadership mercs and they're expensive.

 

[Yosharian]

What's a good stat distribution for the custom Merc? I used to max wisdom and have average marksmanship and mechanic but it was a pain early game and i abandoned the game.

AGI 65
DEX 85
LDR 85
WIS 85
MRK 85
MEC 85

max AGI, HLT and STR later with training

this allows you to skip using Livewire completely and instead use OP combat mercs like Blood, Ice, Barry, Buns, etc

I have gotten to lategame on this team fairly easily

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Does anyone play with Audaki's Training Overhaul? Vanilla training is beyond broken and I'm not coming back to it, but I'm still rattled by how opaque the traning mechanics remain. I renewed Grizzly's contract, hoping to get his Dexterity up by letting him train with Fox, but I can't get him to raise one single point, despite Fox having 100 Dex and the Teacher perk. I was able to raise Buns' leadership with Hitman, and MD's to an extent(although it's unclear to me why one learned better than the other if they have similar wisdom).

Another thing I noticed of late is that militia fight better with Auto-Resolve than manually. Lots of time Auto-Resolve will take care of enemy squads without casualties, while if I send a merc and fight manually a couple of militia will usually get killed due to suicidal tactics. This may be an issue with Tactical AI Project in particular. The militia fights quite aggressively now, but they have no notion of friendly fire and don't seem to take any precaution against melee fighters.

I love this game, but there are so many little quirks. I don't think I'll ever muster the courage to play this Iron Man.