Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Seems based on AD&D rules:
When any creature is brought to 0 hit points (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until -10 is reached and the creature dies. Such loss and death are caused from bleeding, shock, convulsions, non-respiration, and similar causes. It ceases immediately on any round a friendly creature administers aid to the unconscious one. Aid consists of binding wounds, starting respiration, administering a draught (spirits, healing potion, etc.), or otherwise doing whatever is necessary to restore life.

 

[Zombra]

I hope they will give more information about those temporary debuffs.

Hot take: hidden mechanics in JA series give it a richer and more natural texture, adding to the feeling that you're working with people and not a list of numbers.

 

[ArchAngel]

I hope they will give more information about those temporary debuffs.

Hot take: hidden mechanics in JA series give it a richer and more natural texture, adding to the feeling that you're working with people and not a list of numbers.

Storyfags..

 

[vota DC]

I hope they will give more information about those temporary debuffs.

Hot take: hidden mechanics in JA series give it a richer and more natural texture, adding to the feeling that you're working with people and not a list of numbers.

Mercenaries quarrels, Postie calling the Union (???) when you fire Reuban, Mercenaries that randomly forget orders, mercenaries that disobey because they want to finish that enemy instead of move (was in 1, removed in 2 for a bonus attack and a random chance that affect only auto weapons) are this kind of mechanic that should be hidden because are related with their attitude. The temporary debuffs were strange....Pops with 1 health gets instantly 15 after bandaging and Hurl that has a 100 maximum and gets 40 after bandage is less efficient.

 

[Aemar]

They've definitely got some decent character designers on staff. I know it's too early to be definite for all the returning mercs but Grizzly is another good one. Simple and informative.

They even remembered his rosary

One of the main elements that made the original JA games shine was the similar atmosphere they had in common with most of the late 1980s - early 1990s B-action films. JA is basically a love letter to that genre. I doubt whoever is doing this game is even slightly interested in replicating that feeling.

 

[Papill0n]

Also not a fan of shit like "shaped charges; high mishap risk unless used by Barry". Any other high explosives high dexterity high wisdom guy should be able to do that the same way Barry does.

Presumably it means mishap chance is significantly higher, but explosives skill will still reduce it. It is, in fact, perfectly logical that even a fellow expert will find field expedient explosives they didn't create difficult and hazardous to work on.

Well okay I guess they mean some sort of improvised explosive device Barry came up with and that description text only applies to that item which Barry made then yes. But then "shaped charged" is a misnomer.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I hope they will give more information about those temporary debuffs.

Hot take: hidden mechanics in JA series give it a richer and more natural texture, adding to the feeling that you're working with people and not a list of numbers.

Storyfags..

Yeah, preferring the mechanics of the best combatfag CRPG ever means you're a storyfag. No doubt nigga

I've made the point earlier in this thread, but working with incomplete information makes games more tactical, not less. It means you actually have to pay attention, not just crunch numbers in a spreadsheet.

 

[Humbaba]

Interesting wording. Down instead of dead. Wonder if that means all mercs will enter some of kind wounded state before dying if shot.

That happened constantly in the original games so I'd say definitely yes.

It was entirely possible for a character to be KOed before dying, but I'd never say it's the standard. The window for vs instant death it is relatively narrow from my memory

Getting KOd becomes more common as the game progresses and you get access to body armor, which blocks HP damage but the stamina damages remains unchanged afaik. In practice that makes little difference, since a sleeping merc is dead meat. I only remember one specific instance where Cliff got KOd by grenades and several hits, only to be left alone for a couple of turns and regen enough stamina to regain consciousness.

In JA2, if mercs drop below 15 HP (or is it 10?), they will become unconscious and slowly bleed out, losing 1 HP every turn, and also losing max HP permanently. But this is not guaranteed to happen. If a merc receives enough damage, he will just die.

Also true but again a downed merc is on borrowed time. You never want to ever get hit by anything, there's no such thing as tanking as a viable strat in JA2. I hope this will be the case here.

 

[ArchAngel]

I hope they will give more information about those temporary debuffs.

Hot take: hidden mechanics in JA series give it a richer and more natural texture, adding to the feeling that you're working with people and not a list of numbers.

Storyfags..

Yeah, preferring the mechanics of the best combatfag CRPG ever means you're a storyfag. No doubt nigga

I've made the point earlier in this thread, but working with incomplete information makes games more tactical, not less. It means you actually have to pay attention, not just crunch numbers in a spreadsheet.

When you care more about traits of your soldiers instead of having access to pure numbers so you can make best tactical decisions is storyfag shit. Just read his take, that is pure storyfag shit

 

[Zombra]

Imagine being prouder of doing math than ability to adapt to human setbacks. JA has never been primarily for numbers purists, and "off sheet" personality-driven mechanics were not implemented by accident.

 

[Humbaba]

Bbbbbbut how am I gonna optimise??????

 

[Ghulgothas]

One of the main elements that made the original JA games shine was the similar atmosphere they had in common with most of the late 1980s - early 1990s B-action films. JA is basically a love letter to that genre. I doubt whoever is doing this game is even slightly interested in replicating that feeling.

And there was one unifying trick to JA2's atmosphere that goes beyond however many pictures of explosions and black tank-tops you can throw at me. One that if they're as big fans as they say they are, they'd do well to emulate.

Just Add Music

 

[Ghulgothas]

Devstream is live, starting soon.

Archive

TL/DW
No gameplay.
Reiteration of what the last dev diary talked about.
They debated whether or not to let players kill plot-important NPCs on a whim.
They are introducing Fallout-style skillbooks.
There was a carriable mortar.
Briefly touched on the implementation of Night Ops.
More mod-teasing.
Cryptic allusion to post-launch content.

Pretty lame overall.

 

[Alienman]

Wow, not watched much yet, but that head popping animation looks gruesome. I like.

You can see it at 10:26.

 

[Zombra]

Skill books? Blech.

 

[Ghulgothas]

From their forums:

I.M.P. portraits were not ready at this time, but rest assured there will be a (selectable) portrait on release!

Regarding I.M.P. customization, please don't set your expectations too high here. We much rather have more mercs than more aesthetic options for the I.M.P. merc and ultimately these are made using the same resources. Although you can choose a portrait that has associated looks, as I said above, there is no in-depth customization.

 

[Zombra]

How many voices to choose from for the IMP character, I wonder?

 

[blrrmmmff]

Am I the only one who hates the graphics? The only studio that understands graphics on isometric games is Wube Software with Factorio. That game made tens of millions and they are sticking with 2d.

The art of making good top down strategy games is somewhat immersive graphics that don't age, and you should be able to quickly tell what is going on, what cover is, where the enemies are, where your own guys are etc. Isometric sprites are absolutely perfect for that. Just because 3d exists does not mean you should always go for 3d.

Here:
It looks just too busy, and not even that immersing. Where can I go? Where is cover, how do I get down there etc. Probably those rocks in the back are purely decorative and I cannot scale them. And those rocks look like the are made out of plastic.

To this:
I can quickly tell where my mercs are, I can tell where I can go and how, what points of interest are. And somehow these dated sprites look more real and easier on the eyes than those shiney 3d graphics above.

I don't get the fetish for 3d. Especially zooming in, what the hell does it add? That shot where it zooms in behind the guy in the trailer just looks gamey and cartoonish.

And don't get me started on that annoying minimalistic UI.

The immersion and fun is supposed to come from deep versatile gameplay. The graphics are there to somewhat immerse you, but they should be functional first and pretty second.

Then some more annoyances, look at this:
The faces look generic, and why the fuck does Ivan have a wool hat on in the middle of the fucking desert. To show he is Russian? I can get this in a recruitment photo, but not ingame. None of the mercs in JA2 needed hats or pearls etc to give them character in game. The black character just looks cartoonish. And minimal useful info is given in the UI. Really clear weather? Gee I wouldn't have noticed.

I don't have high hopes for this.

 

[Ghulgothas]

It looks just too busy, and not even that immersing. Where can I go?

How's Your Depth Perception?

what the hell does it add?

More room to incorporate verticality and portray distance in combat, represented in a 3D space. Don't know about you man, but I can tell just at a glance that that house's balcony would be a great sniping spot.

The faces look generic,

Agreed, just look at this cookie cutter shit.

Portraits

Oh wait, that's from one of the other games. Here's some faces from this game.

Portraits

Dunno man, they look pretty distinct to me. Realistic? Faithful to JA2? Maybe, maybe not. But generic? Come on.

 

[blrrmmmff]

It looks just too busy, and not even that immersing. Where can I go?

How's Your Depth Perception?

what the hell does it add?

More room to incorporate verticality and portray distance in combat, represented in a 3D space. Don't know about you man, but I can tell just at a glance that that house's balcony would be a great sniping spot.

The faces look generic,

Agreed, just look at this cookie cutter shit.

Portraits

Oh wait, that's from one of the other games. Here's some faces from this game.

Portraits

Dunno man, they look pretty distinct to me. Realistic? Faithful to JA2? Maybe, maybe not. But generic? Come on.

No offence but your reply reads like you are part of the marketing department of this game.

And yes the faces look generic. Half of them look like instagram influencers posing for a selfie. Not sure why you have to pull the comparison of Back in Action game into this as my whole problem with these games were ugly 3d graphics, which Back in Action has.

You can do elevation just fine with sprites. The first Stronghold game pulled it off just fine more than 20 years ago. Age of Empires 2 definitive edition pulled it off.

Hell you could pull off nice clean top down graphics with 3d like in Desperados III (although I still prefer the original):

 

[Zombra]

I don't see how you can condemn JA3 for looking "too busy" and lionize D3 for its tidiness in the same breath. Did you pick a particularly cluttered screenshot from D3 on purpose to undercut your argument? Because it worked.

That JA3 screenshot is perfectly readable. It just has softer lines for a dustier look. Very effective in my opinion. And maybe I'm just awesomely smart but I don't see anything confusing at all about where my units might be able to move.

 

[Ghulgothas]

No offence but your reply reads like you are part of the marketing department of this game.

No offense but this dismissal reads like you're already resigned to this game turning out to be total shit.

And yes the faces look generic. Half of them look like instagram influencers posing for a selfie. Not sure why you have to pull the comparison of Back in Action game into this as my whole problem with these games were ugly 3d graphics, which Back in Action has.

Becuase I'm not talking about graphics, I'm talking about design. Because if you're looking for something that's dull, repetitious and lacking character, i.e. generic, then the BiA portraits are a perfect example and the best point of comparison. Admittedly the new faces are on the other end of color and exaggeration but I consider that preferable to the alternative, which would be sanding them down into generic forward-facing mugshots like what the BiA portraits are.

 

[zool]

The new faces look fine IMO in the sense that they have some neat stylization in them which is what we're looking for.

OTOH, I agree that the 3D maps look a bit too cartoony for my tastes and have that generic Unity engine feel (not even sure they're using Unity but whatever).

 

[Alienman]

Hell you could pull off nice clean top down graphics with 3d like in Desperados III (although I still prefer the original):

You can probably get to that angle in the game, since it seems the world is fully 3D.

 

[SerratedBiz]

No offense but this dismissal reads like you're already resigned to this game turning out to be total shit.

Yes.