Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Grampy_Bone]

When I first attacked that island outpost way back at the beginning of the game, I had found some proximity detonators and combined them with C4 and tossed them at the enemies, not realizing you needed remote detonators to manually trigger them, so they went to waste.

Final mission, they're still there and still armed. I brought a second team with 3 mortars and just hung back and leveled the place, and finally got the enemies to step on the prox bombs as they scrambled to avoid the mortars.

 

[Strange Fellow]

End game spoilaz

Spoiler

Anyone been able to get Corazon convicted? I've failed twice now. I've figured out that you can:
- Get Biff to testify against her.
- Get the Major to give up his correspondence with her.
- Get a confession from Corazon herself.

Anything else?

I still absolutely hate that you can't kill her. What a boneheaded decision.

 

[Modron]

Anything else?

Spoiler

Here are 3 pieces of evidence you don't have might be more I am just about to assault Corazon's base but I've been everywhere else.
- Evidence that colonel Faucheux gassed the refugees, inspect all the points of interest around the camp before talking to him and say he killed them (think it required a medicinal, wisdom, and mechanical check and finally a wisdom check in dialog).
- Communications between the Co. Faucheux and Corazon can be found at his base.
- There is questline starting at the Abandoned Mansion in G8 which involves reuniting a butler with his former employer that yields a piece of evidence against Corazon.

Edit: You only need 4 pieces of evidence so maybe head back to g8 and visit the basement or Faucheux's base before assaulting Corazon.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

End game spoilaz

Spoiler

I was more pissed at Biff getting away with a $50 million diamond for sucking and getting saved my me.

I heard a rumor if you bring sober Larry to the fight he can be talked out of it but no dice. Otherwise not sure what happens if you let the Major kill him, then can you get the diamond from him later?

I ended up recruiting the Major at the end, all the good he did in one last fight.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Spoiler

I heard a rumor if you bring sober Larry to the fight he can be talked out of it but no dice. Otherwise not sure what happens if you let the Major kill him, then can you get the diamond from him later?

Spoiler

I think I had sober Larry for that fight, didn't seem to do anything. If you can't save Biff he just dies and you fail the quest, no further mention of the diamond. I couldn't get there in time in my first playthrough.

The second time, I saved Biff and convinced him to give the diamond to Chimichanga, but in the ending slides it still got sold. That was pretty weird. I guess Chumbawamba is a sneaky old dog.

 

[Alienman]

His commie ways only gets him that far, I guess.

 

[raeven]

I had found some proximity detonators and combined them with C4 and tossed them at the enemies, not realizing you needed remote detonators to manually trigger them, so they went to waste.

Wait, you need a remote to trigger proximity C4?

Doesn't that make it... Not proximity C4, then?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Wait, you need a remote to trigger proximity C4?

I found c4, proximity detonators, and a remote detonator trigger in the same box, and assumed the detonator worked with the triggers because reading is hard. So I threw prox bombs and then wondered why the remote button did nothing. Derp.

 

[gogis]

End game spoilaz

Spoiler

Anyone been able to get Corazon convicted? I've failed twice now. I've figured out that you can:
- Get Biff to testify against her.
- Get the Major to give up his correspondence with her.
- Get a confession from Corazon herself.

Anything else?

I still absolutely hate that you can't kill her. What a boneheaded decision.

You missed archive from mister Ditch

 

[gogis]

The main problem with comparing JA2 and JA3 that is very prevalent in this thread is the fact, that people conflate JA2 1.13 and vanilla JA2 into one entity.
Vanilla JA2 was also lacking in the tactical department and had similar problems that JA3 inherited from it. 1.13 pushed JA2 from the dual identity of being a turn based tactics game and a light rpg about action/adventure movies, straight into what turned out to be the best tactical simulation of squad based fights.
JA3 actually embraces the silliness of this action movie design and leans more into this light rpg side of JA3. There are still clearly worse elements in some regards, when comparing to vanilla JA2, but there is a lot of good stuff that it does on it's own.

Everyone looking in JA3 for a build-up on what 1.13 provides will be disappointed.
I wasn't and let the game surprise me and it was a good surprise. That's one of the single player games I had most fun playing in a long time.

Bullshit. I am at start of 1.13 run, it is not much different than vanilla JA2 and already tactical combat is much superior. There is no tutorial island bullshit, endless talking at start, short range engagements, blind and stupid enemies, stupid stealth systems, pod systems, overwatch cheese, blind and deaf enemies on the map that do not come to check out what is happening and so on.

You clearly not played much JA2 nor JA3 enough, your posts are outright retarded. I wonder why I keep reading this drivel. Praising JA2 AI is just outright out of asylum. Atleast JA3 have NATO themed troops with significantly diferent AI, while all enemies in JA2 have exactly same AI, just different color shirts

Ok , I will admit I have not seen this advanced JA3 AI as everyone I watched does the same. Put everyone into stealth, move hilariously close to enemy during day, set up overwatch and then murder them all easily and then do same to next pod on same map. This is why I call AI blind and deaf.
In JA2 1.13 there is no way I can approach enemies inside effective range of my weapons before they also see me. I cannot even see them much before they see me without having one person use binoculars that gives tunnel vision instead of nuxcom 360 vision.
And once combat starts they come from everywhere on the map to murder my guys and there was certainly attacks of 4 or 5 guys at once and from multiple directions. Luckily so far enemies mostly have just pistols so they are forced to rush into range but it is going to get very interesting soon.

I play JA2 1.13 EVERY year, 20-40 hours before I am bored out. Last time was last october. You don't know much about 1.13 and it's problems, you obviously have no idea how JA3 works (oh, you watched streams! Jesus...) but you keep coming to this topic to bash the game that people enjoy. WTF is wrong with you? Unless you played the game meaningful time you can't really criticize it in meaningful way. Like seriously, praising 1.13 AI over JA3? What shit you smoking? JA2 AI is braindead, and it's UNIFORM among all human enemies. Here at least you have factions with different behavior.

And I hope you realize that MOST of things you talk here about is not in base JA2, but features of 1.13? Wait for 1.13 version for this game. You comparing mod to baseline game which is retarded. One is for wide audience, another is for autists. It's like comparing base NUXCOM to Long War. Retarded.

edit: btw, there is autistic Kraut JA 1.13 streamer who composed squad with Nigth-Ops/NVG/Silent weapons mid game and was raping with it relentlessly. So much for "there is no stealth in 1.13" bullshit. I will try to dig for it if I get time (and will)

 

[Beowulf]

Spoiler

I heard a rumor if you bring sober Larry to the fight he can be talked out of it but no dice. Otherwise not sure what happens if you let the Major kill him, then can you get the diamond from him later?

Spoiler

I think I had sober Larry for that fight, didn't seem to do anything. If you can't save Biff he just dies and you fail the quest, no further mention of the diamond. I couldn't get there in time in my first playthrough.

The second time, I saved Biff and convinced him to give the diamond to Chimichanga, but in the ending slides it still got sold. That was pretty weird. I guess Chumbawamba is a sneaky old dog.

Spoiler

I had sober Larry and he convinced Biff to give me the diamond. I had Pantagruel at 63% Loyalty and Chimmigimmy didn't show up at all. Now he is retired and didn't want the diamond, and the government troops retook Port Cacao, so I can't give the diamond to the president's daughter.

 

[Alienman]

Spoiler

and the government troops retook Port Cacao

This aspect is so annoying. Even if you take it back she is gone forever. Had a shit ton of those masks and stuff, rotting in my backpack.

 

[ArchAngel]

The main problem with comparing JA2 and JA3 that is very prevalent in this thread is the fact, that people conflate JA2 1.13 and vanilla JA2 into one entity.
Vanilla JA2 was also lacking in the tactical department and had similar problems that JA3 inherited from it. 1.13 pushed JA2 from the dual identity of being a turn based tactics game and a light rpg about action/adventure movies, straight into what turned out to be the best tactical simulation of squad based fights.
JA3 actually embraces the silliness of this action movie design and leans more into this light rpg side of JA3. There are still clearly worse elements in some regards, when comparing to vanilla JA2, but there is a lot of good stuff that it does on it's own.

Everyone looking in JA3 for a build-up on what 1.13 provides will be disappointed.
I wasn't and let the game surprise me and it was a good surprise. That's one of the single player games I had most fun playing in a long time.

Bullshit. I am at start of 1.13 run, it is not much different than vanilla JA2 and already tactical combat is much superior. There is no tutorial island bullshit, endless talking at start, short range engagements, blind and stupid enemies, stupid stealth systems, pod systems, overwatch cheese, blind and deaf enemies on the map that do not come to check out what is happening and so on.

You clearly not played much JA2 nor JA3 enough, your posts are outright retarded. I wonder why I keep reading this drivel. Praising JA2 AI is just outright out of asylum. Atleast JA3 have NATO themed troops with significantly diferent AI, while all enemies in JA2 have exactly same AI, just different color shirts

Ok , I will admit I have not seen this advanced JA3 AI as everyone I watched does the same. Put everyone into stealth, move hilariously close to enemy during day, set up overwatch and then murder them all easily and then do same to next pod on same map. This is why I call AI blind and deaf.
In JA2 1.13 there is no way I can approach enemies inside effective range of my weapons before they also see me. I cannot even see them much before they see me without having one person use binoculars that gives tunnel vision instead of nuxcom 360 vision.
And once combat starts they come from everywhere on the map to murder my guys and there was certainly attacks of 4 or 5 guys at once and from multiple directions. Luckily so far enemies mostly have just pistols so they are forced to rush into range but it is going to get very interesting soon.

I play JA2 1.13 EVERY year, 20-40 hours before I am bored out. Last time was last october. You don't know much about 1.13 and it's problems, you obviously have no idea how JA3 works (oh, you watched streams! Jesus...) but you keep coming to this topic to bash the game that people enjoy. WTF is wrong with you? Unless you played the game meaningful time you can't really criticize it in meaningful way. Like seriously, praising 1.13 AI over JA3? What shit you smoking? JA2 AI is braindead, and it's UNIFORM among all human enemies. Here at least you have factions with different behavior.

And I hope you realize that MOST of things you talk here about is not in base JA2, but features of 1.13? Wait for 1.13 version for this game. You comparing mod to baseline game which is retarded. One is for wide audience, another is for autists. It's like comparing base NUXCOM to Long War. Retarded.

edit: btw, there is autistic Kraut JA 1.13 streamer who composed squad with Nigth-Ops/NVG/Silent weapons mid game and was raping with it relentlessly. So much for "there is no stealth in 1.13" bullshit. I will try to dig for it if I get time (and will)

Yesterday I had a big battle where most of my squad were prone in more open positions to pull enemies in while Fox waited inside a building with two guns for them to get into range to step out and take them out 1 by 1. Except after she did 2 such kills one of the enemies ran around that house and found open window to shoot her from behind.
In another case I was scouting forward with Barry trying to find some enemies for my rooftop shooters and ran into enemy that just moved behind a corner 2 squares next to Barry. After my bad action he got an interrupt and slashed Barry twice and ran behind the corner again to get out of sight.
That is good AI.

Why are you playing JA2 1.13 if it bores you?
It is good you finally found a casual game like JA3 to play.

 

[Darth Roxor]

oh wow this game doesn't have Cliff

DECLINE

 

[Modron]

Men it is with a heavy heart that I must announce after having explored every single location Calvin Barkmore is indeed nowhere to be found.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Hesus, this game's UI was made in hell. The hotkeys make no sense and not being able to select specific mercs with the number keys is extremely bothersome.

Merc roster feels pretty poor.

The pod shit is as retarded as ever, as expected, and I'm only 3 sectors in. The one with the nigga dancing on the mine field was particularly grating.

The fact the enemies first all move and only then start shooting (outside pod shit) leads me to believe the AI is probably braindead.

WTF even is this stealth.

 

[Sunri]

This game could be cool with warhammer conversion you lead team of space marines change all negroes to orcs coraze = eldar military guy = some chaos lord damm i fell like a genius right now no kapp

 

[Twiglard]

Quick questions:

How good is it compared to JA2 vanilla?

How good is it compared to JA2 1.13?

 

[spectre]

I agree about the roster. They shot themselves in the foot by shafting MERC the way they did, the AIM premium fee is nonsense which only narrows your early options....
and just to rub it in further, about 1/3 of the roster will be randomly unavailable at the beginning and the already stunted team-building decision tree becomes even smaller.

Another big downer, as far as I am concerned, the game doesn't seem to even have a trading interface.
It's basically all done by manually picking up shit... like some kind of animal, and through dialogue.
And a downer it is, cause no interface means no easy way to unfuck it, unless the modding tools are scary powerful.

[EDIT: And there I go with the wall of text again]

Quick questions:

Okay.

How good is it compared to JA2 1.13?

Surely, you know better than to ask this. A lot of people conflate 1.13 and Ja2, but let's just stick with this:

How good is it compared to JA2 vanilla?

This comparison is a tad more favorable, but I may be biased because I actually waited for and played the various abortions that happened to be named similar to Jagged Alliance
which came earlier. Makes JA3 look like a genuine effort. It tries to pay homage to JA2 as well as to tick all the boxes and convince you that it "gets it". IMO it's all very surface level,
because even though you can draw a lot of parallels (X is exactly like San Mona, quest Z is basicelly a re-imagined quest from JA2, etc.)
a lot of the pieces are basically missing - smaller roster, nonexistent economy, no vehicles, no Bobby Rays, no SAM sites.
The game has also turned heavily towards RPGs - lots of branching choices, side-quests, long ass quest chains.
Unfortunately, it is also heavily influenced by EXCUM - for what that's worth it appears to be the current-day standard of building turn based tactical games.

How good is it compared to Firaxis Enemy Unknown

There's loads of baggage coming from this, worst offender IMO is the scramble turn enemies get when they spot you.
Another bad thing is the system has shifted towards more "gamey" or "boardgame-like" traits and special abilities.
A character will no longer collapse because you depleted their stamina bar and needs to recover as per the standard formula for breath recovery based on various stats,
but now gets a "debuff" which will wear off on its own or when removed by a special ability or consumable.

Theoretically, the new system can try and replicate a good chunk of mechanical complexity from JA2, but I personally can't shake
the feeling that it's all just smoke an mirrors. What I'm saying here, the system is probably quite approachable to a player coming from
and familiar with EXCUM, but will let JA2 veterans down because it doesn't feel as organic.

It still compares favorably to the vanilla EXCUM system, with stuff like actual Action Points, working inventories, ballistic simulation,
the less extreme approach to cover also feels better.

Took me some adjusting (and a bunch of mods) before I could give it a proper spin.
At the moment, I've combed through most of the Savannah region and, frankly, I'm beginning to feel worn out.
The turn towards RPG means there's plenty of side activities I'm feeling obligated to follow up on due to completionism,
and a lot of them are tedious, cause you often need a proper character or item on hand.
This probably gets better on subsequent playthroughs... if it actually ever comes to that.
I blame a lot of it on the interface, it makes most things a bother: inventory management, assigning tasks,
all seem to take more clicks than needed, chipping away at you little by little.

At this point, combat already stopped being rewarding, mostly the encounters play out identically and the opponents don't really put up that much of a fight.
I am told this will change soon-ish, but I'm not exactly keen on waiting for the game to get good.
This is also why I said it isn't "rewarding" rather than "challenging." Looting is often disappointing.
I mostly just immediately scrap all the things I get, and if I find valuables... there isn't a lot to spend money on anyway.
I'm toying with the idea of rectifying this problem with a "drop all but 50% of it" mod, but the game balance is so freaking brittle as it is.

A bit of a wall of text, but that's how the game feels for me at the moment: three steps forward, four steps back, and I'm probably being nice here
because of the modding potential.

 

[Ladonna]

oh wow this game doesn't have Cliff

DECLINE

Seriously?

Lucky I didn't buy it, otherwise I would have to "return to sender"

(Seriously, I will probably get it soon. Sounds like one of the only higher budget games I would be interested in for ages. But no Cliff is decline).

Anyone else of note missing?

 

[lycanwarrior]

Mortismal gives the game a thumbs up!

 

[Darth Roxor]

Anyone else of note missing?

Buzz

 

[Strange Fellow]

La Malice

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

 

[Krivol]

I always imagined Lilura to be a bit like Buns...