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Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
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Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
14,296
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Quick questions:

How good is it compared to JA2 vanilla?

How good is it compared to JA2 1.13?
As someone who likes JA3, and will likely replay it, the game is not really on the level of either JA, JA2, or JA 1.13.

Still, it is not shit, in my opinion. The most annoying thing is what happens at the start of combat, where when the enemy sees you, they will go into cover. Another issue is that there are many small maps. People have said that sniper rifles are OP, and they are. I only use one sniper, though. My personal biggest pet peeve is that I can not choose to go into turn-based mode at will.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,288
I always imagined Lilura to be a bit like Buns...
"Imagined"

buns2.png
 
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Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
2,036
Quick questions:

How good is it compared to JA2 vanilla?

How good is it compared to JA2 1.13?
As someone who likes JA3, and will likely replay it, the game is not really on the level of either JA, JA2, or JA 1.13.

Still, it is not shit, in my opinion. The most annoying thing is what happens at the start of combat, where when the enemy sees you, they will go into cover. Another issue is that there are many small maps. People have said that sniper rifles are OP, and they are. I only use one sniper, though. My personal biggest pet peeve is that I can not choose to go into turn-based mode at will.

It's far from shit. You highlighted the biggest issues that this game has. Snipers were OP in JA games anyway, you could just go prone and crawl to some rock or tree for cover to take the first shot.
Unfortunately the real time sneak mode and the scramble turn mechanic makes any other kind of stealth very inconsistent and hard to pull off. The issue is further compounded by the general UI clunkiness (e.g. you have to wait for certain animations to finish before you can do anything with another merc). It's nice that they tried to somehow solve the problem with perfect first turn on the player side, but it just doesn't work that well.
I also learnt to live with what the game throws at me regarding loot and it is a nice challenge, as you can't constantly use the same OP gun modified in exactly the same way for optimal performance. You have to sort of live off the land in a way, but I wouldn't mind a better trading interface and the ability to purchase at least some utility items.
Small maps are mostly for sectors that you travel through, the majority of important areas are decent to big.
Besides that the game has a lot going for it, including the visuals and the soundtrack. People shitting on it are either retarded, or doing it just for the sake of codex's leitmotiv.
 

Nortar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
1,505
Pathfinder: Wrath
I agree about the roster. They shot themselves in the foot by shafting MERC the way they did, the AIM premium fee is nonsense which only narrows your early options....
and just to rub it in further, about 1/3 of the roster will be randomly unavailable at the beginning and the already stunted team-building decision tree becomes even smaller.

I think this is their way exactly to make player's team-building decisions more dynamic.
Otherwise it's too easy to fall into running the same "fotm meta" every time and never seeing different mercs.
Already it's hard for me to imagine starting a run without Barry and Livewire.

The GOLD subscription (other then being an obvious joke p2w refference) serves the same reason.
I don't know what triggered it, most probably it just based on time, but at one point I got an email infoming me that I was granted access to the legendary mercs without the sub fee.

Another big downer, as far as I am concerned, the game doesn't seem to even have a trading interface.
It's basically all done by manually picking up shit... like some kind of animal, and through dialogue.

As for inventory management I agree that it's pretty shit sadly.
But at least you don't have to trade via dialog, just drop everything into sector stash and take it from there.
You don't even have to loot anything out of containers, as long as you've seen it, it's availabe in stash.

Oh, and a random pic from my playthrough:
aDDHpfw.png
 

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
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Location
Poland
So i finished vanilla ja 2 and now installed 1.13 i didnt change any values in the ini editor but after capturing Drassen I'm getting literary swarmed by basic goons 10/20 guys every few minutes i feel like I'm fighting some zerg rush is that normal?
 

Fargus

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
4,083
Location
Mosqueow
So i finished vanilla ja 2 and now installed 1.13 i didnt change any values in the ini editor but after capturing Drassen I'm getting literary swarmed by basic goons 10/20 guys every few minutes i feel like I'm fighting some zerg rush is that normal?

Drassen counter attack. Most people love it some much they disable it the moment they reinstall 1.13.
 

Krivol

Magister
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
2,190
Location
Potatoland aka Prussia
So i finished vanilla ja 2 and now installed 1.13 i didnt change any values in the ini editor but after capturing Drassen I'm getting literary swarmed by basic goons 10/20 guys every few minutes i feel like I'm fighting some zerg rush is that normal?

Drassen counter attack. Most people love it some much they disable it the moment they reinstall 1.13.
Yep, and it's easy to be turned off (via ini editor).

I sometimes play with it, sometimes without it. The problem is Dressen is - according to the story - the first place to visit and conquer, and usually you have weak goons facing gazillions of enemies. You can chees through it (hide in a bar and kill every enemy entering the place) or try some guerilla tactics (night attack to re-conquer mine sector, few attacks - kill 5, retreat, repeat). Anyway, after that battle you will have more stuff you can use, some nice attachments, and if you found Shank already, you can drive all weapons to San Mona and sell it for 10k (trader has 10k, so you can only earn that much in 1 transaction).

BTW San Mona is a great place to start the game - you can sell loot you found in the wilderness (10k), win prizefights (15k - Dr Q or marble balls recommended), steal money from Kingpin's stash (25k), do the leather shop quest (10k? - I don't remember) and kill Kingpin (doable with some M14s - another 20k and great Steyr for the beginning). Then you can attack Drassen with Ivan, Reaper, Magic or whoever you want :P .
 

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,919
Location
Poland
So i finished vanilla ja 2 and now installed 1.13 i didnt change any values in the ini editor but after capturing Drassen I'm getting literary swarmed by basic goons 10/20 guys every few minutes i feel like I'm fighting some zerg rush is that normal?

Drassen counter attack. Most people love it some much they disable it the moment they reinstall 1.13.
There are so many enemies that they literally shot each other in the back they went overboard af
yuSLAZK.png


wCcAXVZ.png
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,518
So i finished vanilla ja 2 and now installed 1.13 i didnt change any values in the ini editor but after capturing Drassen I'm getting literary swarmed by basic goons 10/20 guys every few minutes i feel like I'm fighting some zerg rush is that normal?

Drassen counter attack. Most people love it some much they disable it the moment they reinstall 1.13.
Yea, I read about it being stupid so I turned it off for my 1st play.
I also turned off reinforcements coming from neighboring sectors during combat because it turns cities into one big battle and 2 tiny stupid ones. From what I read it also lets your Militia always win attacks by soldiers as enemy squads cannot fight with all the reinforcements that come along with militia in that sector.
 

Sunri

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,919
Location
Poland
So i finished vanilla ja 2 and now installed 1.13 i didnt change any values in the ini editor but after capturing Drassen I'm getting literary swarmed by basic goons 10/20 guys every few minutes i feel like I'm fighting some zerg rush is that normal?

Drassen counter attack. Most people love it some much they disable it the moment they reinstall 1.13.
Yea, I read about it being stupid so I turned it off for my 1st play.
I also turned off reinforcements coming from neighboring sectors during combat because it turns cities into one big battle and 2 tiny stupid ones. From what I read it also lets your Militia always win attacks by soldiers as enemy squads cannot fight with all the reinforcements that come along with militia in that sector.
Yea after i recruited 20x militia in 3 sectors it's over because if they attack they will fight 40 guys at once or 60 if they move to the middle one
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,879,156
Location
Djibouti
- Hory shit dis thing has effin free inventory access in combat, everyone plz stop shooting while I grab a soda and change my howitzer for an assault cannon.

- Dude moves one square in combat. Ding! +1 agility!

- Evil nigga decides to just run right past my 4 entrenched dudes and stand completely in the open.

- Evil nigga runs up, shoots me once. Then moves 1 square, shoots again. Then does the same thing two more times.

- I sneak up on a bunch of niggas. Shank one, they get SUSPICIOUZ. Shoot another. ZUMG enemy nigga SAW SOMEONE DIE!!!! All five enemy niggas now scatter into cover for free while two of my dudes are already out of AP after having moved. WHO FUCKING DESIGNED THIS.


GREAT GAME YOU HAVE HERE ASSHOLES, GOOD THAT THEY RELEASED A DEMO

Also,

image.png


'from Boreale for completing their special assignment'

welcome to 2023, where $CHARACTER_SEX$ is too complex of a fucking variable
(SORRY I FORGOT the characters here are genderless)
 

Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
2,036
- Hory shit dis thing has effin free inventory access in combat, everyone plz stop shooting while I grab a soda and change my howitzer for an assault cannon.

- Dude moves one square in combat. Ding! +1 agility!

- Evil nigga decides to just run right past my 4 entrenched dudes and stand completely in the open.

- Evil nigga runs up, shoots me once. Then moves 1 square, shoots again. Then does the same thing two more times.

- I sneak up on a bunch of niggas. Shank one, they get SUSPICIOUZ. Shoot another. ZUMG enemy nigga SAW SOMEONE DIE!!!! All five enemy niggas now scatter into cover for free while two of my dudes are already out of AP after having moved. WHO FUCKING DESIGNED THIS.


GREAT GAME YOU HAVE HERE ASSHOLES, GOOD THAT THEY RELEASED A DEMO

Also,

image.png


'from Boreale for completing their special assignment'

welcome to 2023, where $CHARACTER_SEX$ is too complex of a fucking variable
(SORRY I FORGOT the characters here are genderless)
Swapping items in inventory costs you AP (a tad too low), but it's not free. Did the game not scale to your level?
In JA2 you can punch a cow and get +1 Strength.

This post also deserves a "Ding!", I guess.

This post is retarded mostly because it suggests the existence of good niggas.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,879,156
Location
Djibouti
Swapping items in inventory costs you AP (a tad too low), but it's not free.

Fox was dual-wielding pistols. I moved one of them to the backpack during combat and she lost no AP.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,612
Swapping items in inventory costs you AP (a tad too low), but it's not free.

Fox was dual-wielding pistols. I moved one of them to the backpack during combat and she lost no AP.
"Scoundrel – First weapon swap per turn is free."


I think this is their way exactly to make player's team-building decisions more dynamic. Otherwise it's too easy to fall into running the same "fotm meta" every time and never seeing different mercs.
Already it's hard for me to imagine starting a run without Barry and Livewire.
Well, like I said, I have no problem with there being a web of interpersonal drama that affects your teambuilding,
the problem is with the limited selection of mercs it's all more railroaded than it needed to be.

For example, your only reasonable choice to cover leadership is go Raider or cover that with your IMP.
Picking or not picking Fox as medic will pretty much determine like... half of your possible squad composition?
Because you will probably want to pick Wolf for that permanent +1AP for the two, and she doesn't get along with a lot of the girls.
Picking Livewire means you will pass on Raven and Raider (which means your IMP is now railroaded into max LDR), also doesn't work with Red,
which means if Barry is not available early on, your choice of explosive specialist gets really narrow (and you really want one from the start)
Livewire I don't particularly like she's annoying (not as much as Kalyna) and because her special ability trivializes scouting,
also makes Red lose morale, and I've always enjoyed the guy's banter.
Most importantly, passing on her means I'm stuck with subpar mechanics who are just barely able to install fucking bipods.
(the whole weapon modding system calls for a separate ragepost... maybe sometime later).

Im probably sperging too much over it, but the game kinda forces me to, due of its RPG-lite pretences,
there's plenty of skill checks from early on, all needing quite high attribute values, very few mercs will be able to pass those,
sometimes they're even beyond the range for a maxed out IMP.

An example of this, if you're planning to recruit Flay at the earliest convenience, you basically need to go with Livewire or MD to pass that odd 90+ WIS check along the way.
Or fixing the camera in the tutorial island, the difficulty for this is also set quite high, iirc about 80, which means Livewire is the most convenient pick to get it done.
Of course, none of this is mandatory, and it's debatable if some of the rewards are even worth it, but this sort of shit always turns me into an ocd completionist for some reason.
 
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Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
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May 29, 2008
Messages
1,879,156
Location
Djibouti
"Scoundrel – First weapon swap per turn is free."

that's not entirely what i'd associate with opening your inventory and swapping howitzers from your backpack but at least on this point i may in fact be retarded
 

Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
2,036
[...]

An example of this, if you're planning to recruit Flay at the earliest convenience, you basically need to go with Livewire or MD to pass that odd 90+ WIS check along the way.
Or fixing the camera in the tutorial island, the difficulty for this is also set quite high, iirc about 80, which means Livewire is the most convenient pick to get it done.
Of course, none of this is mandatory, and it's debatable if some of the rewards are even worth it, but this sort of shit always turns me into an ocd completionist for some reason.

Agreed. There are surprisingly many 80+ and 90+ checks, that only certain mercs can handle without prior training. And the need for an explosive expert right from the start can make the starting experience very railroady, unless you consciously ignore some stuff and just go for the mercs you want to try out.
It doesn't help that most of the new mercs are designed by retards and are beyond pastiche (if their writers were even aiming for that) - they are just poorly written one-dimensional cardboard cutouts. Even worse, as cardboard cutouts are two dimensional and can have some depth.
 

Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
2,036
"Scoundrel – First weapon swap per turn is free."

that's not entirely what i'd associate with opening your inventory and swapping howitzers from your backpack but at least on this point i may in fact be retarded

Well, the game offloads many mechanics into perks. Same for this niggas moving and shooting. It's a perk called run'n'gun or something. You can do that with your mercs too, albeit I personally haven't used some of those at all.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,612
Just don't metagame. Just don't do it. Pick a squad you like and roll with it.
I like a squad that let's me see the most content out of the box, cause the game as of yet has not convinced me there will be a second playthrough.
Also, picking specialists to cover all the basics is the fucking ABC of team design in rpgs, especially when you're on the first playthrough and don't know what the magic numbers are.

Good choice.
Wiki has high Mech, so she is good from the start. And you can quickly level up her wisdom to 90+ levels.
Yeah, I wanted to start with her, but saw the devs really did a number on the poor lass.
Looks like a reggae transvestite.
 

raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
306
I was able to buy Vicki for 2 weeks once I got to Ernie and was able to afford to keep her by getting two mines quickly before her contract ran out. This was on commando difficulty and my other mercs were Barry, Igor, and Dr. Q. So, I wouldn't say livewire is your only option.

Also, Vicki is badass.
 

Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
2,036
LIvewire has wallhack and because of that I try to avoid hiring her.
Besides, she is very annoying.
 

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