Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Krivol]

Yep, seems like the lack of AP cost for turning around and aiming (I mean raising a gun to your eye, not spending AP to have better CtH) made a lot of weapons just decoration.

I remember using FN FiveSeveN pistol constantly in close combat in JA 2 1.13 due to its close-to-zero AP cost and insane armor piercing.

 

[Strange Fellow]

The free movement AP was a mistake, and giving all enemies bonus movement AP compounds that mistake. It leads to enemies almost always moving about during their turn (because it's free!) even when the position they move to isn't necessarily better. It makes turns last longer and looks extremely silly.

I agree that there should be a cost for raising the gun. It would have been as simple as having repeat shots against the same enemy cost fewer AP. Then again, the AP cost of each individual weapon is obviously intended to represent the entire sequence of bringing the sights up and zeroing in, and there are guns with very low AP costs that allow mercs with high agility to fire 4+ times per turn.

As for the removal of facing, I expected it to be more controversial here than it has been. I have to admit I always thought it was silly and unrealistic that mercs had to turn their whole body around to know if there was an enemy behind them. I'm fine with mercs looking around being abstracted away.

 

[Beowulf]

Tbh I think those are reasonable compromises if one's goal is to have a simplified turn based experience. This granularity that you all mention worked best in games like Brigade E5 and 7.62. It is also a reason why most of us think that JA3 is worse than it's predecessors, but honestly - I think that it's also part of the reason that this remake was so successful in this day and age.

 

[raeven]

Yep, seems like the lack of AP cost for turning around and aiming (I mean raising a gun to your eye, not spending AP to have better CtH) made a lot of weapons just decoration.

I remember using FN FiveSeveN pistol constantly in close combat in JA 2 1.13 due to its close-to-zero AP cost and insane armor piercing.

The raising your weapon mechanic was only present in 1.13, not vanilla.

 

[KazikluBey]

Yep, seems like the lack of AP cost for turning around and aiming (I mean raising a gun to your eye, not spending AP to have better CtH) made a lot of weapons just decoration.

I remember using FN FiveSeveN pistol constantly in close combat in JA 2 1.13 due to its close-to-zero AP cost and insane armor piercing.

The raising your weapon mechanic was only present in 1.13, not vanilla.

False. You couldn't decide to raise your weapon without shooting, but the shot that raises your weapon costs more AP (actual cost depends on the weapon).

 

[raeven]

Yep, seems like the lack of AP cost for turning around and aiming (I mean raising a gun to your eye, not spending AP to have better CtH) made a lot of weapons just decoration.

I remember using FN FiveSeveN pistol constantly in close combat in JA 2 1.13 due to its close-to-zero AP cost and insane armor piercing.

The raising your weapon mechanic was only present in 1.13, not vanilla.

False. You couldn't decide to raise your weapon without shooting, but the shot that raises your weapon costs more AP.

Ok yes, it's true that if you shot at the same target it cost less AP than the first shot.

 

[KazikluBey]

Ok yes, it's true that if you shot at the same target it cost less AP than the first shot.

No, not just the same target. Any further shots while the weapon is still raised. I don't remember if turning always lowered it.

 

[raeven]

Ok yes, it's true that if you shot at the same target it cost less AP than the first shot.

No, not just the same target. Any further shots while the weapon is still raised. I don't remember if turning always lowered it.

Mmmm, I'd have to test it again to be sure. I thought it was just the same target but I could be wrong.

 

[raeven]

Ok, I just checked in the game, here is how it works in vanilla.

If a shot costs, say, 8 AP to shoot the first time, then a subsequent shot at the same target will cost 5 AP. A shot at any other target, whether in front or behind you, would cost 7 AP. So it's less, but not as less as shooting the same target.

As is usually the case with JA2, it's a surprisingly complex system.

I'm still not sure if the whole "you can fire 3 times regardless of how much AP you have" mechanic is a good idea or just too byzantine to really wrap ones head around, but it's certainly a lofty design goal that they doubled down on.

 

[gogis]

I wouldn't say ARs are useless. They are conditionally good. A character with high marksmanship, appropriate perks and FN FAL can do some serious damage. However, sniper rifles are consistent, safe, don't require high marksmanship and save you ammo. Essentially, they are the default weapon in this game. It should be the other way around.

Good AI for the most part

In which way?

We already had this discussion many pages ago. Sniper rifle is one kill per round. Pretty much every other weapon in late game will score your multiple kills per round. Which makes sniper rifle specialist weapon, no more, no less. If you use more than 1-2(already questionable) dedicated snipers in your end game squad, you doing it wrong.

Wait, that's exactly how many sniper rifles you used in your JA2 alpha squad.

I am still far from the endgame and decided to give Gwehr to all my mercs (except Barry, who uses grenades and shotgun if everything fuck ups). So are you saying ARs will be useful later?

I haven't played with MGs post nerf, but it was the king. Absolute carnage. AA12 shotgun - easily 3 kills per round with free move perks. Same with melee. ARs could be janky, but best late games ones do good damage and most importantly - grenade launchers. I have no idea how they've fixed grenades miss chance, but it was very precise and very far whack on demand. Very useful. I had 2 ARs in my endgame squad. Guys with strong AR perks like Ivan can easily do 3 kills/turn without risks of melee/shotgun proximity.

You still NEED sniper for reliability, but wild ideas like 'just get 6 snipers' are outright retarded. Good luck clearing wings with snipers in Corazon fight. We talk 3-4 guys in small rooms. Cake walk to shotgun/melee. Stats don't lie - my most kills were shotgun Barry (and that's deducting explosive kills) and melee Igor. Livewire, who had all proper perks and 90+ accuracy for most of the game and very early PSG was only fourth after my AR/Winchester IMP. That's 4 characters I had from the start, so, fair comparison

 

[gogis]

ike Brigade E5 and 7.62.

Why have you wrote that... I am installing later now and already having PTSD... Stockholm syndrome is strong with this one...

 

[Krivol]

The more I play the more I love this game. ARs are indeed great, burst fire takes 3 bullets with halved damage, which means if you place all shots in an enemy, you will deal 150% of the damage. It's a fair deal, I just got weak mercs with low CtH (so 3 bullets, only 1-2 hits). The perks system is great and can change battle in a big manner. I love it.

 

[ArchAngel]

The more I play the more I love this game. ARs are indeed great, burst fire takes 3 bullets with halved damage, which means if you place all shots in an enemy, you will deal 150% of the damage. It's a fair deal, I just got weak mercs with low CtH (so 3 bullets, only 1-2 hits). The perks system is great and can change battle in a big manner. I love it.

Nah, I prefer JA2 where when I place 3+ bullets in enemy they FUCKING DIE

 

[Krivol]

True, I also prefer JA 2 and JA 2 1.13. But there is a limit of replays of each game you can do... Game is good, simple 8/10, while JA 2 is more like 9-10/10.

EDIT: Also perk system is much better than in the original, where - in the end, after grind and training - every merc was more or less the same.

 

[0wca]

True, I also prefer JA 2 and JA 2 1.13. But there is a limit of replays of each game you can do... Game is good, simple 8/10, while JA 2 is more like 9-10/10.

EDIT: Also perk system is much better than in the original, where - in the end, after grind and training - every merc was more or less the same.

Wait for proper mods. They'll boost this game to 10/10 if they're done right.

 

[Beowulf]

Apparently due to "players feedback" they are working on "fixing" their weird design choices.

I always had a sneaky feeling that their excuses and explanations that "the players would not understand" came mostly from the fact, that they had to release the game in a state where not all features were fully developed.
Anyway - this roadmap looks promising.

 

[Alienman]

Jesus, these damn post release roadmaps.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Is there dates?
Can I get ready game circa Q2 2024?

 

[Beowulf]

Is there dates?
Can I get ready game circa Q2 2024?

Looks like those are just promises without concrete timeline or release schedule.
I think that their next update might focus on delivering some estimations for the roadmap "based on the players feedback".

 

[agris]

Is there dates?
Can I get ready game circa Q2 2024?

Looks like those are just promises without concrete timeline or release schedule.
I think that their next update might focus on delivering some estimations for the roadmap "based on the players feedback".

I imagine it's also down to how well the game performs. THQ nordic has cleared about $10 MUSD from JA3. I have no clue if that's below/at/above expectations, but I know they will have a projected sales tail as well. They need to decide if it makes sense to continue free upgrades (sales tail is doing well) or pivot to some DLC to slam out and then stop support (sales are underwhelming, tail isn't on target).

edit: anyone know how large the team working on this is? $10 MUSD wouldn't sustain many US developers for long, I wonder what a decent bulgarian salary is...

 

[raeven]

I feel like I should have had the self control to wait a year before playing, but oh well

Just finished my second playthrough, on MI this time. I'll come back to it when all the patches and DLC are out.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I feel like I should have had the self control to wait a year before playing, but oh well

People say this stuff every time a game gets post-release support, but frankly unless you HATED the time you spent on the game I don't see the problem.
It will make a next playthrough feel somewhat fresher.

 

[raeven]

I feel like I should have had the self control to wait a year before playing, but oh well

People say this stuff every time a game gets post-release support, but frankly unless you HATED the time you spent on the game I don't see the problem.
It will make a next playthrough feel somewhat fresher.

Not even remotely. Best game in recent memory!

 

[Gambler]

Finished it a few days ago. "Best game in recent memory" pretty much sums it up. I hope it will get even better with patches and I look forward to replaying it sometime in the future.

 

[0wca]

Apparently due to "players feedback" they are working on "fixing" their weird design choices.

I always had a sneaky feeling that their excuses and explanations that "the players would not understand" came mostly from the fact, that they had to release the game in a state where not all features were fully developed.
Anyway - this roadmap looks promising.

Fuck yeah, Bobby Ray!