Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[spectre]

Stuff has a %chance to drop when an enemy dies, there are mods that directly change these values:
https://www.nexusmods.com/jaggedalliance3/mods/11
and it's also been incorporated into other mods as well, like the one which unlocks a bunch of options from developer mode.

Unfortunately, you need a new game for it to take effect, I'd love to play around with, but not enough to warrant a new game.
Pretty sure it breaks the oh-so-fragile economy anyway, you'll be swimming in parts.

 

[agris]

it's a shame, the more you dig, the more it seems like bandaids were used to fix larger underlying issues with mechanics

 

[Zombra]

an obvious solution to the gamey "enemies never run out of bullets" and the common complaint of not enough ammo for select/burst fire weapons is to give enemies ammo that they can drop.

In other words, either so much ammo that scarcity no longer exists and you might as well not track it at all, or enemies that run out of ammo and they flee all over the map and you have to chase after them for 200 additional turns while they run back and forth. Gonna admit, neither exactly sounds wonderful.

 

[Strange Fellow]

getting real tired of reminding people that enemies dropping all their shit never happened in any previous jagged alliance game

 

[spectre]

Well, you could technically punch people or KO them with gas grenades and then it's possible to steal their guns.
Nighttime beatemup of rooftop snipers with Blood and Dr.Q was a quality time.

But yeah, "enemies drop all items" is a 1.13 thing.

 

[raeven]

I don't understand why people want loot drops to happen all of the time. The game in its current form gives you enough weapons and ammo to win. Altering the drop rate is just a way of lowering the difficulty.

I never had a problem with ammo in the game. Which is not the same thing as saying, "I used whatever gun I wanted whenever I wanted to".

 

[spectre]

Well, maybe not exactly about wanting drops all the time, but there's this basic premise of the genre - you see an enemy waving a shiny thing,
you get to grab the shiny thing for yourself after the ordeal is over with. That doesn't always happen in a system like this.

There needs to be this sweet spot at which loot feels rewarding, that one extra dopamine hit after a fight, and a lot of the time in JA3 it isn't.
You kill 6 guys and all you get is two guns, 12 bullets and a pair of pants.
Now, ammo is unexciting by definition and after a point guns just go to the junk pile for parts, unless it's a unique item.

 

[agris]

an obvious solution to the gamey "enemies never run out of bullets" and the common complaint of not enough ammo for select/burst fire weapons is to give enemies ammo that they can drop.

In either words, either so much ammo that scarcity no longer exists and you might as well not track it at all, or enemies that run out of ammo and they flee all over the map and you have to chase after them for 200 additional turns while they run back and forth. Gonna admit, neither exactly sounds wonderful.

why do you think either of those are the likely outcomes?

 

[raeven]

an obvious solution to the gamey "enemies never run out of bullets" and the common complaint of not enough ammo for select/burst fire weapons is to give enemies ammo that they can drop.

In either words, either so much ammo that scarcity no longer exists and you might as well not track it at all, or enemies that run out of ammo and they flee all over the map and you have to chase after them for 200 additional turns while they run back and forth. Gonna admit, neither exactly sounds wonderful.

why do you think either of those are the likely outcomes?

What else are the enemies supposed to do if they run out of ammo? I guess they can switch to melee, but... does this make the game more fun?

Honestly ammo is abundant enough as it is. Any more and yes, I believe that scarcity would no longer exist in this game.

 

[Beowulf]

The loot drop issue will always evoke strong emotions for both ends of the spectrum - the balance and the realism viewpoints.
Honestly it is jarring, but ultimately it works in the game's favor (as it did for JA2 and countless other titles where enemies drop shit).

 

[raeven]

Oh. If it's a realism issue for others than I suppose I can see how that might be an issue. I don't care for realism in games so I can't really comment from that point of view.

 

[spectre]

I don't think the game even needs ammo scarcity. And I mean that in a general sense, common calibers which make sense in a setting should be plentiful enough,
that reasonable ammo conservation means you won't be running dry, but may need to swap guns to the less than ideal choice every now and then.
Counting every bullet means common maneuvers like suppressive fire become unfeasible and that means tactical depth is DoA.

What can be beneficial for gameplay and balance is specialized ammo scarcity - AP, match ammo, subsonic - should be non-existent in the early game (but not to the point
that you cannot employ tactics associated with them at all), and a healthy scarcity should be maintained until the very late game.

All in all, where JA3 actually dropped the ball is in inventory management. Having a magic carry all bag for all sorts of ammo, accessible to all units at will, means you never need to make
any interesting choices about what to grab and what to haul. The most irritating thing about this design choice is that it's not easily fixed without completely redoing inventory and interface,
otherwise it becomes an unplayable mess (which arguably it already kinda is).

 

[agris]

an obvious solution to the gamey "enemies never run out of bullets" and the common complaint of not enough ammo for select/burst fire weapons is to give enemies ammo that they can drop.

In either words, either so much ammo that scarcity no longer exists and you might as well not track it at all, or enemies that run out of ammo and they flee all over the map and you have to chase after them for 200 additional turns while they run back and forth. Gonna admit, neither exactly sounds wonderful.

why do you think either of those are the likely outcomes?

What else are the enemies supposed to do if they run out of ammo? I guess they can switch to melee, but... does this make the game more fun?

Honestly ammo is abundant enough as it is. Any more and yes, I believe that scarcity would no longer exist in this game.

Melee or use their sidearm, right. It is a realism thing for me. Yet, not dropping an item at all is better than dropping items that they weren't using. That's too gamey.

There's an idealized version of enemies having discrete ammo and dropping their weapons, that plays out in the early game as your squad "living off the land". Using largely the calibers that your enemies use, because that's what's available. That kind of scrounging is fun for me, but the picture being painted here isn't of that.

I haven't played JA3 yet, probably wont for another year or so, but I'm very interested in it's success.

Zombra if you can relate to my "living off the land" concept, with an understanding that there's a way to do it that doesn't trivialize ammo or make it stalker-levels of scarce, perhaps you can appreciate what I'm suggesting. Enemies conserving ammo, using sidearms or melee, all that would (theoretically) elevate the tactical layer, not diminish it - imo.

 

[Zombra]

Zombra if you can relate to my "living off the land" concept, with an understanding that there's a way to do it that doesn't trivialize ammo or make it stalker-levels of scarce, perhaps you can appreciate what I'm suggesting.

Yeah but .... you just said a huge fucking mouthful right there. If I can sit behind a rock for 400 turns and wait for all the enemies to run out of ammo and then they charge at me with pocketknives, that does not constitute good robust tactical play.

Something to consider is that not every player is the same. Maybe your style of play will be perfectly balanced so that enemies will be right on the edge of running out of ammo by the time you finish every fight. I guarantee that my style will be different enough from yours that the game will be ruined, either by me playing aggressively and getting tons of extra ammo, ruining the economy, or more conservatively so that there are never any ammo drops at all, again ruining the economy. The entire focus of the game would change from careful strategy and good positioning to a "rich get richer" blitzing simulator where rushing and killing enemies as quickly as possible were key to maintaining logistical superiority. That sounds fucking horrible to me.

It is a realism thing for me.

I will NEVER agree that realism is more important than gameplay, and you have not convinced me that enemy AI ammo management would be anything but a huge decline to gameplay.

 

[PanteraNera]

To be honest, I was a realism hardliner as well ... till I started designing my dream game.

The problem is, that the player characters are working like movie hero's and not like real soldiers/hero's.
Because of that, the player has next to none casualities and only gains. If you have full drops, the player will soon be floating in guns, ammo & equipment.

So either you balance it with a "drop chance", or you balance it with higher difficulty/lethality where players will lose people and equipment, thing is, save scumming fucks with that. There is other ways to balance it, for example with different sell and buy values.

One game that did it really well was the early game of UFO:EU.

 

[ArchAngel]

Neger, you need a quest compass? It's right there under "Maximum Coolness". You an infer it from the numbers in the table, but it's also spelt out like so:

The normal *maximum* coolness of new items that BR will have in stock is 1 + (current progress value / 10). For used items it is one step higher (2+ 1/10 progress), so used items of higher quality will be available sooner than new items.

Next time if you want to point out 10 words from a whole page quote it from the start with a link. This is on you.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Yeah but .... you just said a huge fucking mouthful right there. If I can sit behind a rock for 400 turns and wait for all the enemies to run out of ammo and then they charge at me with pocketknives, that does not constitute good robust tactical play.

Wot da zog, who waits to charge?

that does not constitute good robust tactical play.

To be fair, enemy that can't reposition for better firing angles doesn't deserve my finest samples of robust tactical play(tm).

 

[Zombra]

To be fair, enemy that can't reposition for better firing angles doesn't deserve my finest samples of robust tactical play(tm).

Fair enough, but consider: if the AI isn't great to begin with, is it smart to suppose "well we just need to make the problems of the AI much more complicated by expecting it to intelligently manage ammunition" ?

 

[orcinator]

an obvious solution to the gamey "enemies never run out of bullets" and the common complaint of not enough ammo for select/burst fire weapons is to give enemies ammo that they can drop.

In either words, either so much ammo that scarcity no longer exists and you might as well not track it at all, or enemies that run out of ammo and they flee all over the map and you have to chase after them for 200 additional turns while they run back and forth. Gonna admit, neither exactly sounds wonderful.

why do you think either of those are the likely outcomes?

What else are the enemies supposed to do if they run out of ammo? I guess they can switch to melee, but... does this make the game more fun?

Voodoo boy who just downed your merc because he switched to the knife after running out of bullets: "heh, the gun was my limiter, now I'm serious!"

 

[agris]

To be fair, enemy that can't reposition for better firing angles doesn't deserve my finest samples of robust tactical play(tm).

Fair enough, but consider: if the AI isn't great to begin with, is it smart to suppose "well we just need to make the problems of the AI much more complicated by expecting it to intelligently manage ammunition" ?

remember that low bar button you designed? ;D

fight the decline, set your expectations higher than what you're given!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

: if the AI isn't great to begin with,

Then fix that first innit? Not much fun bashing dumdums.

 

[Zombra]

: if the AI isn't great to begin with,

Then fix that first innit? Not much fun bashing dumdums.

Uh that's exactly what I'm saying. Glad you agree. Teach your AI to fucking walk before expecting it to cartwheel across a tightrope.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

: if the AI isn't great to begin with,

Then fix that first innit? Not much fun bashing dumdums.

Uh that's exactly what I'm saying. Glad you agree. Teach your AI to fucking walk before expecting it to cartwheel across a tightrope.

You're a real headscratching instigator sometimes, bro.

 

[KazikluBey]

I tried the demo. Not sure I can get over the fact you have to keep swirling the camera around and still not always see properly. Not quite as bad as HoMM 5 where you couldn't make troops attack enemies from a certain angle if your camera was turned the wrong way, but not good. I'm getting flashbacks to the 00's of every 2D franchise getting a 3D overhaul with no idea what to do with the camera.

Should I persevere? Am I just being grouchy because I recently played JA2 Stracciatella?

 

[Atlet]

Patch 1.2.0 Released – Buns

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1084160/view/3708208311619367003

Patch 1.2.0 Released – Buns

Hello everyone,

We have just release patch 1.2.0 codenamed “Buns” that focuses on quality-of-life combat improvements. In addition, “Buns” offers tons of bug fixes and general improvements.


Highlights

Fast Speed
– speeds up the time during the enemy turn to shorten waiting times. The Fast Speed button appears in place of the End Turn button during the enemy turn.

Inaccurate attacks may hit other body parts
– There is a small chance to hit another body part of the target with an inaccurate attack (Community suggestion).

Free Aim firing mode changing
– You can now cycle the weapon firing modes during Free aim using the Free Aim shortcut key while setting up the attack.

Improvements for modders
– various improvements to modding, especially regarding weapon modifiers. Improvements to the Blender exporter (Community suggestions).

Combat

• Ricocheting shots are now simulated and have a chance to damage characters and objects nearby.
  
  
• The remaining number of overwatch attacks will now be shown on the combat badge above the merc's head
  
  
• Various improvements to melee attack animations
  
  
• Fixed some cases where conflicts would not end
  
  
• Made the "Run and Gun" attack sequence more fluid
  
  
• "Run and Gun" would no longer make shots against dead enemies
  
  
• Enemies no longer redeploy when a merc retreats
  
  
• Handled cases where melee attacks would fail to execute
  
  
• Fixes to free aim melee attacks and melee attacks against objects
  
  
• Melee animations connect better when the attacker and the target are on different elevation
  
  
• Fixed some cases where the Surprised enemy state was applied incorrectly
  
  
• Grenades that don't deal damage will no longer destroy objects
  
  
• Fixed some cases where the camera was in the wrong position or got stuck
  
  
• Bug fixes and improvements to the "Remote Detonation" action
  
  
• More fixes for combat effects never ending (incl. Zoophobic and Claustrophobic)
  
  
• Fixed an animation issue causing enemies to sometimes start displaying a crouching animation before dying
  
  
• Fixed a rare case of neutral units walking around during combat
  
  
• Smoke objects will no longer provide a cover spot
  
  
• Infected are no longer incorrectly considered to be in a crouched stance
  
  
• Fixed some attacks being incorrectly labelled as Free Aim in the UI
  
  
• Fixed cases where wrong firing modes would appear for weapons that do not have these modes
  
  
• Made the AI units reload more visible (community suggestion)
  
  
• Fixed the AP costs when using doors and windows
  
  
• Improved performance on combat start
  
  
• Handled cases when entering the overwatch area did not trigger an attack
  
  
• Civilians killed by allies or neutral units no longer incur a loyalty penalty (community suggestion)
  
  
• (Spotter talent) The Marked combat effect is now applied only during combat and on start of combat
  
  
• Combat tasks that require something to happen in the same turn now work correctly when reentering combat
  
  
• The "Put this apple..." and "Make them suffer" combat tasks can no longer appear together
  
  
• Certain Combat tasks objectives (e.g. “Killing Spree”) now properly handle animals
  
  
• The "Knife Juggler" combat task can now be completed only by the merc who has the task
  
  
• Improved the logic for civilian units cowering during combat
  
  
• Aim effects from weapon mods are now applied to overwatch and interrupt actions (community suggestion)
  
  
• Fixed a case where applied wounds did not lower the max health
  
  
• When using the Revenge perk, the damage is checked for the whole attack and not for each separate shot
  
  
• Tired and Exhausted voice responses will no longer play during combat
  
  
• Fixed some cases when prone units faced the wrong way
  
  
• Fixed some cases where a merc will get stuck in an aiming pose when interrupted by another player in multiplayer
  
  
• Improved how some terrain objects affect cover and line of sight
  
  
• Light/darkness indicator is properly updated during deployment
  
  
• Added spark FX when bullets hit hard walls
  
  
• Fixed cases where the flare burning sound was not played
  
  
• Added additional FX on buckshot burst
  
  
• The burning FX on objects will no longer disappear after save/load
  
  
• Visual FX are now properly removed when disarming landmines

Exploration

• The Suppressed combat effect no longer persists out of combat
  
  
• Enemies are more likely to react to their buddies getting shot nearby
  
  
• Fixed some cases where enemies would not redeploy properly when they are attacking a sector
  
  
• Searchlights are turned off when defending a sector to not compromise sneaking mercs
  
  
• Fixed cases where searchlights were not revealing mercs
  
  
• Improvements to how/when mercs stop movement in Exploration mode when seeing mines (community suggestion)
  
  
• Improvements to the Hyena roaming logic
  
  
• Fixed a case causing mercs in Overwatch to teleport at combat start
  
  
• Fixed interactable discovery not working occasionally
  
  
• Handled rare cases where windows and doors became invisible
  
  
• Fixed some appearance issues with electricity wires
  

Inventory

• Some stackable items like knives can now be scrapped (community suggestion)
  
  
• The “Weapon shipment” item can now be opened from the sector stash.
  
  
• Fixed the recipe for disassembling the TNT proximity detonator
  
  
• Mercs no longer lose their special items when their contract expires
  
  
• The “Cash stack” context menu option no longer appears for single items
  
  
• Fixed cases where weapon mods that changed the magazine size did not update the remaining ammo properly
  
  
• Removed the "Equip" option in the context menu for the “Weapon shipment” item
  
  
• Mercs were are no longer able to equip or give items when they are too far away from each other using the context menu

SatView

• Balance changes to shipments and enemy attack frequency
  
  
• Fixed some rare cases when a conflict would break when assigning mercs to squads above and underground
  
  
• Fixed timeline icons for shipments not updating in some cases
  
  
• Fixed a case where defeated enemies were not shown in the auto-resolve UI
  
  
• The route line of highlighted squads can no longer be hidden behind other route lines
  
  
• Fixed rare cases when double-clicking a squad in SatView did not position the camera properly
  
  
• Mercs that are being trained are automatically removed from the operation when they reach the highest possible stat with the current trainer(s)
  
  
• Travelling from an underground sector to the above-ground sector will no longer trigger a voice response
  
  
• Fixed some cases where the Well-Rested status was lost when wounds were healed
  
  
• The R&R operation will no longer trigger a voice response on finish
  
  
• Fixed not being able to un-pause satellite time in some rare cases when pressing multiple buttons at once
  
  
• Opening the SatView when all mercs are dead no longer causes the game to freeze
  
  
• Fixed an infinite money exploit based on starting and cancelling Operations
  
  
• Using herbal medicine to remove the Tired combat effect will now properly update the timeline
  
  
• Fixed incorrect timeline icons remaining in the SatView for aborted or stopped operations
  
  
• Added an icon to distinguish inventory and sector stash items when selecting items for a Repair operation (community suggestion)
  
  
• Repair operations will now also allow repairing items from another squad in the sector (community suggestion)
  
  
• Fixed some cases where the Travelling voice response was played in sectors with enemies
  
  
• Starting an operation will now properly play a sound effect
  
  Quests and scripting (Spoilers)
• Fixed a case where the conflict would not end if Biff was already dead when you enter Hill Station
  
  
• Fixed a case where some of Pierre's banters after the world flip at Fort L'Eau Bleu were not playing
  
  
• Pierre is no longer unarmed when returning to Ernie Island
  
  
• Stopped some of Pierre's banters from playing when the combat at Fort L'Eau Bleu was initiated through stealth
  
  
• Bounce will now play a banter when you interact with him after defeating Siegfried
  
  
• Fixed conversations with too many options causing a freeze (e.g. Emma’s conversation in Port Cacao)
  
  
• Characters killed by overwatch or interrupt attacks are properly counted by quests
  
  
• Fixed a discrepancy between the written and voiced text in the Bounce conversation
  
  
• Bug fixes and improvements to "The Docks" quest
  
  
• Handled a case where the note about the machine gun in the "Helping Ernie village" quest appeared before talking to Basil
  
  
• Fixed some cases where dead NPC would still play banters
  
  
• Minor fixes to the “Twin Manors” quest
  
  
• Fixed multiple problems in the Boss Blaubert conversation regarding Smiley and Luigi
  
  
• Handled some cases where the "Voodoo people" quest would not progress
  
  
• Fixed a note in the "Chalet de la Paix" quest pointing to the wrong NPC
  
  
• Bug fixes and improvements to the "Herman is missing" quest
  
  
• Properly handled the cases with the remaining treasures after the main treasure is found in the "Treasure Hunting" quest
  
  
• Fixed some banters in Ille Morat not playing occasionally
  
  
• Disabled the phrase for reuniting the Coffee Beans if they are already reunited
  
  
• Properly show some disabled phrases in Headshot Hue's conversation
  
  
• Improved the wording of the notes in "The Dead Poachers" quest
  
  
• Several voiced lines are now played correctly instead of being text only
  

UI

• Added a welcome message when starting the game after a new major patch has been released
  
  
• The "Show More" info is now disabled by default
  
  
• Added a different icon for mechanical traps (community suggestion)
  
  
• Added Depth of Field sliders in Photo mode
  
  
• Tutorial popups will no longer appear if the player has no controllable mercs
  
  
• Player badges are now visible in the enemy's turn
  
  
• Added a fade-in to the end turn button at the start of the player turn
  
  
• Fixed cases where quest and item badges would appear over nothing
  
  
• An incorrect warning about multiple allies in danger no longer appears
  
  
• Weapon and grenade damage no longer appears as 0 in the sector stash after auto-resolving conflicts
  
  
• Enemy badges will now update properly when the unit visibility changes
  
  
• Fixed some UIs that were not scaling properly in 4K resolution
  
  
• UI improvements to the Mercs Control menu
  
  
• Improved selection for some interactable objects
  
  
• Typo fixed in the “Ice Storm” talent
  
  
• Fixed a rare case where the melee attack avatar was not in the right place
  
  
• Fixed not being able to get to 0 points in the IMP stats UI when using the arrow keys
  
  
• Restored the Aiming article in the Help section
  
  
• Added "Action Cancelled" notification when an action gets interrupted
  
  
• Fixed shipment badges sometimes missing in tactical view
  
  
• Disable the Next/Finish button when no answer is selected in the IMP test.
  
  
• Stopped displaying scrollbars in the Conflict screen when they are not needed
  
  
• Units will no longer change their color when they die
  
  
• The keyboard shortcut for accessing the inventory works properly in the A.I.M. Evaluation screen
  
  
• Fixed a case where joining a multiplayer game will produce an empty error message
  
  
• Fixed how menus expand when the UI scaling is less than 100%
  
  
• Fixed an issue with mercs appearing twice in the UI when a merc being bandaged dies
  
  
• Fixed some cases where the Snype messages were getting cut off
  
  
• The Outro images are now properly fitted to the screen

General

• Fixed some cases where sounds are still played when the master volume is set to 0
  
  
• The "Modding Expert" achievement will no longer unlock on a failed modification
  
  
• The "Time Is Money" achievement is now unlocked as described
  
  
• Many tweaks and improvements when using a controller including new QoL options
  
  
• Desyncs fixed
  
  
• Various optimizations and stability improvements
  
  
• Added a functionality that checks for keybinding conflicts when new keyboard shortcuts have been added