Vapourware Josh Sawyer wants to make a historical RPG

[Rev]

budget similar to PoE

Considerably less. I seem to recall 1-1.5M being floated.

If he's able to reuse the P2 engine and some of the assets (re-skinned ofc) you can do a quite a lot with that kind of money though. Think Tyranny, but with historical accuracy and without the suck.

Well, I said at most with a budget like PoE, but I agree that it would probably be even lower.

 

[fantadomat]

America is boring...will not be interested in such game. My opinions aside,it will most likely flop.

Completely immaterial to my post, but that's okay. Maybe you can tell us about your local salads for a bunch of posts again. :D

Hahahaha,in which one do you like the most? We could evolve and talk about drinks with salads. Still i am not pushing my country for an rpg game,even if it will be cool game. The westerm genre is more for a action rpg than top down rpg.

 

[pomenitul]

A CRPG set in the Second Bulgarian Empire as it struggles to contain Ottoman incursions would be infinitely more interesting than the industry's prevailing navel-gazing Americanisms.

 

[Deflowerer]

Still waiting for that 19th century Russia game.

 

[Prime Junta]

Still waiting for that 19th century Russia game.

Lots of potential there. I'd go with the Bukharan emirate during the Russian takeover.

 

[santino27]

An RPG needs isles of civilization amid defunct social order. That's how you get premises for quests, character motivations, etc. I don't see these conditions in 19th c. USA except if the game is based during the Civil War, which sounds pretty boring at first glance.

Disagrees with no arguments. Oh, ok.

I disagree you on two fronts.

A RPG doesn't need isles of civilisation amid defunct social order at all. It can have isles of defunct social order amid civilisation for one if we want to go that route, say a RPG concerning criminal underworld in a fairly functional society otherwise. It can have no defunct anything and can have a conflict of interest and interest of conflict between different factions. I could expand on this more but I think you get the idea, to be sure what you purpose is easiest and thus most common way to give player quests and character motivations, especially in fantasy RPG but it's by no means a necessity.

I also disagree that 19th century USA doesn't have isles of civilisation amid defunct social order, especially at frontiers, mid-west, south and northern borders, there is Texan war and Spanish-American war on top for two extremely easy settings.

Maybe make sure you understand what is written before writing in reply that you disagree (or agree)?

In an environment where social order is being enforced, there is no potential for situations that require combat to realistically occur. You need to have areas/spaces/environments where characters have to turn to violence in order to protect themselves.

So you always need a setting-provided excuse for the existance of areas like "wilderness", "dungeons", "infested sewers", "enchanted forests", "dark caverns", etc.

In the majority of RPGs such unsafe areas are the majority, and the safe areas are the minority, hence:

An RPG needs isles of civilization amid defunct social order

I don't understand how 19th century america doesn't fill that requirement though. In addition to 4+ wars (1812, Mexican War, Civil War, Indian War), it had westward expansion, the craziness of the gold rush era and towns springing up in the middle of the wilderness almost over night. Hell, the vast majority of Westerns are set in the 19th century. You could argue some of those are overplayed already, but I find it hard to see how the setting and timeline is poorly suited for an RPG.

I never said it doesn't fill that requirement.

An RPG needs isles of civilization amid defunct social order. That's how you get premises for quests, character motivations, etc. I don't see these conditions in 19th c. USA except if the game is based during the Civil War, which sounds pretty boring at first glance.

Come on, man.

The thing is that the 19th century is a pretty broad period, a d one where big leaps were made in the quality and way of living, so it matters a lot when exactly in the 19th c. are we considering placing the game.

Until the end of the Civil War, yes, there are conditions to set an rpg in this time and place, but once the Reconstruction era, and Gilded age begin, whatever game you set up in the US, will be percieved as "a western setting" by the uninformed public, with all that entails. For a number of reasons, I'm not that keen on an "historical RPG" placed in a setting that is associated with national mythology (this applies to the Civil War as well), and the mass image of which is so contaminated by its portrayal in movies.

IMO, the best settings for historical RPGs are those time periods and locations that are less explored by movies and games. There you would have more freedom to build a world that is true to history, and you are less burdened by having to adhere to mass expectations and pay tribute to "genre" cliches. Because the moment your historical RPG is set in a setting that's associated with a "genre" in cinema (Western), it will have a very hard time remaining historical.

That's a different thing entirely, and one that I agree with to some extent. (Like I said in my post, both westerns and the civil war are somewhat overrepresented in other media, thanks to hollywood). As an American, I'm more than happy to see an RPG screw up the protrayal of a different country or region's history for a change. I was simply objecting to the original statement that 19th century america didn't have "isles of civilization amid defunct social order" outside of the Civil War.

 

[Quillon]

A CRPG set in the Second Bulgarian Empire as it struggles to contain Ottoman incursions would be infinitely more interesting than the industry's prevailing navel-gazing Americanisms.

Set it in Ottoman Empire and scratch industry's prevailing navel-gazing Christianisms also then

 

[fantadomat]

A CRPG set in the Second Bulgarian Empire as it struggles to contain Ottoman incursions would be infinitely more interesting than the industry's prevailing navel-gazing Americanisms.

I would go for the Khans times or something during the time of the first Tzar Simeon.

 

[AwesomeButton]

That's a different thing entirely, and one that I agree with to some extent. (Like I said in my post, both westerns and the civil war are somewhat overrepresented in other media, thanks to hollywood). As an American, I'm more than happy to see an RPG screw up the protrayal of a different country or region's history for a change. I was simply objecting to the original statement that 19th century america didn't have "isles of civilization amid defunct social order" outside of the Civil War.

We were talking about different things then.

fantadomat , when did you get the tags and what for?

 

[AwesomeButton]

A CRPG set in the Second Bulgarian Empire as it struggles to contain Ottoman incursions would be infinitely more interesting than the industry's prevailing navel-gazing Americanisms.

I've said it many times, the medieval history of the South East Europe has more potential for RPGs than can be made in decades if every RPG making company was occupied solely with that location and period. GoT is kindergarten Christmas play compared to medieval SEE.
BTW santino27 , here you go. Defunct social order -> potent soil for an RPG.

Still waiting for that 19th century Russia game.

What period specifically and which part of Russia? I see potential in an RPG set in the winter of 1916 - the winter of 1917, where player actions could affect the fate of the provisional government and whether or not the commies would take power.

 

[fantadomat]

That's a different thing entirely, and one that I agree with to some extent. (Like I said in my post, both westerns and the civil war are somewhat overrepresented in other media, thanks to hollywood). As an American, I'm more than happy to see an RPG screw up the protrayal of a different country or region's history for a change. I was simply objecting to the original statement that 19th century america didn't have "isles of civilization amid defunct social order" outside of the Civil War.

We were talking about different things then.

fantadomat , when did you get the tags and what for?

First two months from what i remember,and i have no idea for what. Maybe for being such a nice charmingly fabulous fucker,who would love to see the world burn,and all those sjw moralist dying out from hunger in some ditch or becoming a sex slaves to a bandit king or warlord. Also my dream is to become a world's dictator!

There will be a lot of chopping if my dream comes true.

 

[fantadomat]

muh americanisms lmao
how about you third worlders actually develop shit on your own instead of tugging daddy Kwa's hand all the time

 

[Deflowerer]

A CRPG set in the Second Bulgarian Empire as it struggles to contain Ottoman incursions would be infinitely more interesting than the industry's prevailing navel-gazing Americanisms.

I've said it many times, the medieval history of the South East Europe has more potential for RPGs than can be made in decades if every RPG making company was occupied solely with that location and period. GoT is kindergarten Christmas play compared to medieval SEE.
BTW santino27 , here you go. Defunct social order -> potent soil for an RPG.

Still waiting for that 19th century Russia game.

What period specifically and which part of Russia? I see potential in an RPG set in the winter of 1916 - the winter of 1917, where player actions could affect the fate of the provisional government and whether or not the commies would take power.

Most likely somewhere between 1860s and 1980s in Saint-Petersburg, or something. Mainly fascinated by the various liberal political ideas and influences coming in from the West, providing a hotbed for all sorts of revolutionaries and in the case of Nechaev, crazy nihilist motherfuckers. I guess the focus would be mainly on the assassination of czar.

 

[fantadomat]

A CRPG set in the Second Bulgarian Empire as it struggles to contain Ottoman incursions would be infinitely more interesting than the industry's prevailing navel-gazing Americanisms.

I've said it many times, the medieval history of the South East Europe has more potential for RPGs than can be made in decades if every RPG making company was occupied solely with that location and period. GoT is kindergarten Christmas play compared to medieval SEE.
BTW santino27 , here you go. Defunct social order -> potent soil for an RPG.

Still waiting for that 19th century Russia game.

What period specifically and which part of Russia? I see potential in an RPG set in the winter of 1916 - the winter of 1917, where player actions could affect the fate of the provisional government and whether or not the commies would take power.

Most likely somewhere between 1860s and 1980s in Saint-Petersburg, or something. Mainly fascinated by the various liberal political ideas and influences coming in from the West, providing a hotbed for all sorts of revolutionaries and in the case of Nechaev, crazy nihilist motherfuckers. I guess the focus would be mainly on the assassination of czar.

Russia vs China in the conquest of Manchuria will be nice. Killing kebab is always nice,or the Napoleonic fail.

 

[Fry]

muh americanisms lmao
how about you third worlders actually develop shit on your own instead of tugging at daddy Kwa's sleeve all the time

Don't worry, Daddy Kwa is rapidly devolving into civil war. That should make the shitkickers feel right at home.

I remain deeply skeptical that Feargus is actually going to green light Sawyer's dream project to begin with. Setting it in an obscure location revolving around even more obscure historical events is a non-starter.

 

[Iznaliu]

Still waiting for that 19th century Russia game.

Lots of potential there. I'd go with the Bukharan emirate during the Russian takeover.

I don't think that setting will have enough marketing potential.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[AwesomeButton]

With the evident success of Kingdom Come Deliverance, Josh's shares in front of Feargus must be through the roof right now :D This historical RPG becomes more and more probable.

 

[Agesilaus]

With the evident success of Kingdom Come Deliverance, Josh's shares in front of Feargus must be through the roof right now :D This historical RPG becomes more and more probable.

but is realism balanced?

 

[FreeKaner]

Realism is a folly, like balance.

 

[fantadomat]

Maybe Darklands 2.....

 

[M. AQVILA]

A SJW making an historical game. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Rev]

Is he truly a SJW, though?
Also, I haven't seen him tweeting about how outraged he was about Kingdom Come or even The Witcher 3's lack of non-whites. Instead he spoke positevely about both of them.

 

[KateMicucci]

Whether Josh personally is or isn't, he brings a crowd with certain attitudes along with him. I worry about how real his historical games might feel now that "deconstruction" of history is the agenda.

One example: KCD had no female soldiers. TW3 had only a handful. In Bioware, Obsidian, Larian, Bethesda games they make up half of armies and gangs. Would this be the case in a historical game? Can Josh or his team tell fantasy from reality? I'm sure you all remember that when PoE was being made there was some kind of controversy about a piece of concept art having boob armor. IIRC Josh blogged something about how his historical advisors told him that boob armor wasn't realistic and he had the concept art badly photoshopped to remove the chest bulge. Something similar happened with Original Sin concept art around the same time involving an exposed midriff. Somewhat missed was the point that the whole concept of "female armor" is fantasy.

Could Josh make a historical game that didn't have women equally represented on the battlefield? Even if he wanted to, could he get away with it? And what other inane discussions would Josh's historical title inspire?

 

[AwesomeButton]

A SJW making an historical game. What could possibly go wrong?

Your mum is a SJ warrior.