KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Dan Vavra's medieval chad simulator

[rusty_shackleford]

The Woman's Lot dlc is particularly full of interesting characters.

"You have to pay extra if you want good characters"

 

[Lord_Potato]

The Woman's Lot dlc is particularly full of interesting characters.

"You have to pay extra if you want good characters"

When discussing a game (especially many years since its release, when you can get the complete edition for pennies) it's good to remember about the dlcs.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The Woman's Lot dlc is particularly full of interesting characters.

"You have to pay extra if you want good characters"

When discussing a game (especially many years since its release, when you can get the complete edition for pennies) it's good to remember about the dlcs.

Would you prefer I blame them for charging for the good characters or blame them for releasing an unfinished game?

 

[Funposter]

the amount of memorable npcs in kcd can be counted on one hand, maybe they should have gone with less

The amount of memorable NPCs isn't really the concern, is it? You play this game for the medieval life simulator aspects and systems, pretty much all of which are enhanced by greater NPC density, scheduling, etc. Plenty of other games have good writing and memorable characters. There's a give and take.

 

[Zlaja]

Plenty of other games have good writing and memorable characters

 

[Lord_Potato]

The Woman's Lot dlc is particularly full of interesting characters.

"You have to pay extra if you want good characters"

When discussing a game (especially many years since its release, when you can get the complete edition for pennies) it's good to remember about the dlcs.

Would you prefer I blame them for charging for the good characters or blame them for releasing an unfinished game?

I would prefer you stopped criticizing KC:D for one of the better aspect of the game: interesting and memorable characters.

But perhaps I'm expecting too much. Maybe for some people Skyrim and Fallout 76 is the pinnacle of modern roleplaying and nothing can change their minds

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The first thing that came to my mind after reading Vávra's tweet about the presentation was that KC2 will have Praha - or some other larger city - and a lot more non-player characters.

IIRC, it's always been known that the sequel will take place in Prague, necessitating certain structural changes to accommodate a much larger urban environment than any existing in KCD. On the plus side, this should result in the sequel being even better as a medieval crime simulator than the original.

 

[Victor1234]

IIRC, it's always been known that the sequel will take place in Prague, necessitating certain structural changes to accommodate a much larger urban environment than any existing in KCD. On the plus side, this should result in the sequel being even better as a medieval crime simulator than the original.

Only for those who those who prefer the highbrow arts. For the plebs, there's always Grand Theft Horse (aka Rustler):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/844260/Rustler_Grand_Theft_Horse/

 

[Funposter]

Plenty of other games have good writing and memorable characters

Six is plenty.

 

[NecroLord]

The first thing that came to my mind after reading Vávra's tweet about the presentation was that KC2 will have Praha - or some other larger city - and a lot more non-player characters.

IIRC, it's always been known that the sequel will take place in Prague, necessitating certain structural changes to accommodate a much larger urban environment than any existing in KCD. On the plus side, this should result in the sequel being even better as a medieval crime simulator than the original.

That sounds really awesome!
I think Prague could definitely work as a setting.

 

[Wunderbar]

Idk what are you talking about. "KC: Prague" was cancelled years ago, Warhorse is currently living off of selling soap.

 

[cvv]

Afaik they said creating larger settlements like Rattay or Sassau with the CryEngine limitations was a pain in the ass. Not sure Prague is even viable in CE3, at least not with the level of detailed simulation KCD has. This engine was made for linear shooters, not sprawling RPGs with thousands of routine-based NPCs. But I'd love to be surprised.

 

[deama]

Afaik they said creating larger settlements like Rattay or Sassau with the CryEngine limitations was a pain in the ass. Not sure Prague is even viable in CE3, at least not with the level of detailed simulation KCD has. This engine was made for linear shooters, not sprawling RPGs with thousands of routine-based NPCs. But I'd love to be surprised.

Maybe that's why it's taking so long? Cause they been working with crytek to extend the engine?
Or maybe coming up with their own ways to fix it themselves, e.g. replace NPC scheduling with machine learning where it doesn't matter if an npc is a minute off his schedule, should reduce CPU processing if done right I think.

 

[fork]

Didn't they announce a switch to UE some time ago?

 

[Paul_cz]

Very much doubt about Prague. Kutná Hora is much more likely.

 

[Wunderbar]

Ah, Kittenburg. That place everyone in KCD kept talking about.

 

[cvv]

Kuttenberg.

 

[moon knight]

Vavra is ambitious, but a medieval city with custom NPCs, each with their own schedule, house and bed, is insane and there's no CPU on the market that could run it.

 

[Wunderbar]

How come a small German studio have managed to pull that off back in the early 00s, despite working with a much slower hardware?

 

[moon knight]

How come a small German studio have managed to pull that off back in the early 00s, despite working with a much slower hardware?

Are you talking aout Gothic?

 

[Victor1234]

I think he means the Guild games? They had medieval towns with NPCs that would go to taverns to drink, home to sleep, go to work during the day, etc.

Not just them either. Gangsters Organized Crime from 1998 also had IIRC a few thousand NPCs moving around the map of a Prohibition era city.

 

[cvv]

How come a small German studio have managed to pull that off back in the early 00s, despite working with a much slower hardware?

You mean Khorinis in G2? There are what, a few dozen NPCs, with vastly simpler routines and reactions than KCD.

What we're talking is Prague, a major medieval metropolis with tens of thousands RL inhabitants. Even with some necessary streamlining, as a concession to gaming, you're looking at a few thousand NPCs.

In comparison there are about 1.5k NPCs in TW3 Novigrad and those are just empty shells with zero routines. If something like that is even possible in any engine it's definitely not CE3.

 

[Wunderbar]

Come on, do you really expect Warhorse to make a city with tens of thousands NPCs each with their own intricate routine? No one needs that.

A combination of different tiers should do the work. Complex AI for plot-relevant characters, less complex Gothic 2-tier AI for merchants, and simplistic AI for extras to fill out the space and make Prague a believeable city.

Now, why Warhorse still reused their CPU-taxing AI for soldiers that appear during setpiece battles such as the siege of Talmberg instead of dumbing it down is a mystery to me.

 

[cvv]

Come on, do you really expect Warhorse to make a city with tens of thousands NPCs each with their own intricate routine? No one needs that.

A combination of different tiers should do the work. Complex AI for plot-relevant characters, less complex Gothic 2-tier AI for merchants, and simplistic AI for extras to fill out the space and make Prague a believeable city.

Now, why Warhorse still reused their CPU-taxing AI for soldiers that appear during setpiece battles such as the siege of Talmberg instead of dumbing it down is a mystery to me.

I specifically said streamlining is necessary. But even cutting it down to a mere 1000 would be likely impossible and any lower you're risking the Whiterun effect from Skyrim - a supposedly majestic metropolis of the empire feeling like a dingy backwater hamlet.

As for the tiers, not sure how much that would help. Even simplistic NPCs still need to react to the PC killing and stealing, still need a day/night cycle and at least some basic routine. Meaning you wouldn't save much.

As for the last point, are you sure that's the case? Citation needed.

 

[Wesp5]

But even cutting it down to a mere 1000 would be likely impossible and any lower you're risking the Whiterun effect from Skyrim - a supposedly majestic metropolis of the empire feeling like a dingy backwater hamlet.

I never really played one, but don't the Assassins Creed game do this all the time? I played the free Paris one for a bit and there were thousands of NPCs running around, don't know if they have schedules though.