KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Dan Vavra's medieval chad simulator

[TedNugent]

I typically detest open world games, but I finally finished the game.

A few things that are remarkable about this one:

1) The armor system is fantastic. Not only is the armor actually well researched to the point where it looks the part of real armor, it interacts with many of the systems and skills in the game.

2) The environment appears to be entirely handcrafted. Each chest, camp, valley, hill, trill, bridge, stream, easter egg, etc. It is a joy to look at and explore, and it helps with the tedium. The game also gives great credit to CryEngine. It's very pretty. Riding horses through handmade valleys and pastoral landscapes is pleasant.

The process of acquiring and equipping armor was much more interesting than any other game that I've played. You begin the game with clothing, and upgrade to a simple gambeson and open bascinet, then add chainmail, vambraces, boots, and eventually mail chausses and plate chausses. Eventually, I added an external arming doublet to give two layers of blunt force protection.

It also has a very good integration with the stealth system and the speech system. Armor has an obvious effect on how you look, how conspicuous/visible you are, and how much noise you make, and the more protective helmets limit your vision. The stealth system is good.

I really like how this game ended up with a more complex and interesting armor system than most games, despite not having any magic or enchantments. I have craved a game like this, a proof of concept that well researched and functional armor can lend itself fully to a complete progression system. They did a sterling job.

Shooting Cumans in the kneecap or nuts with arrows was very satisfying.

The next game should be interesting, as they picked a very good part of Czech history as the setting.

I don't know how on earth such a small team made such a game.

 

[NecroLord]

I don't know how on earth such a small team made such a game.

Passion.
And Vavra.

 

[goregasm]

I typically detest open world games, but I finally finished the game.

A few things that are remarkable about this one:

1) The armor system is fantastic. Not only is the armor actually well researched to the point where it looks the part of real armor, it interacts with many of the systems and skills in the game.

2) The environment appears to be entirely handcrafted. Each chest, camp, valley, hill, trill, bridge, stream, easter egg, etc. It is a joy to look at and explore, and it helps with the tedium. The game also gives great credit to CryEngine. It's very pretty. Riding horses through handmade valleys and pastoral landscapes is pleasant.

The process of acquiring and equipping armor was much more interesting than any other game that I've played. You begin the game with clothing, and upgrade to a simple gambeson and open bascinet, then add chainmail, vambraces, boots, and eventually mail chausses and plate chausses. Eventually, I added an external arming doublet to give two layers of blunt force protection.

It also has a very good integration with the stealth system and the speech system. Armor has an obvious effect on how you look, how conspicuous/visible you are, and how much noise you make, and the more protective helmets limit your vision. The stealth system is good.

I really like how this game ended up with a more complex and interesting armor system than most games, despite not having any magic or enchantments. I have craved a game like this, a proof of concept that well researched and functional armor can lend itself fully to a complete progression system. They did a sterling job.

Shooting Cumans in the kneecap or nuts with arrows was very satisfying.

The next game should be interesting, as they picked a very good part of Czech history as the setting.

I don't know how on earth such a small team made such a game.

It really is a wonderful game. Probably in my top 3 or 5 at least, I have always loved history as well. Being placed in a time I'm fairly familiar with, but a place and political/religious situation I was not aware of, was another treat, and they made it interesting.

I've certainly got criticism of the game for sure, but as a sum of it's parts I think it's one of the most enjoyable experiences I have had in video gaming.

 

[TedNugent]

I have minor critiques, mostly pertaining to the master strike mechanic.

By and large, though, the combat system is good, and it requires you to think systematically about how to take apart multiple opponents. Even at maximum combat skill, and with the finest arms and armor, getting stuck in with multiple heavily armed opponents is usually razor thin at best, and often suicide. It leaves a genuine place for both archery and stealth. Both are nicely done.

One niggling annoyance that stands out for me is the total meaningful absence of the rondel dagger. I would like to see more thought about this implement and how it was used. Daggers in this game are relegated to stealth kills only. In actual fact, a rondel would be the obvious weapon of choice to end a duel between knights.

I was unhappy when the only appearance of the rondel in game was in an anachronism, where a character is holding a rondel to the neck of a hostage as if he was about to slice the hostage's throat. Obviously, a normal bladed dagger would have made more sense in this context.

The rondel was a specialized, stiff dagger, intended and used for puncturing through gaps in armor in the grapple. The idea, as I understand it, is that it would be used to dispatch an entangled or downed opponent with a downward thrust while being held in a hammer grip. Probably, any man at arms would carry one at this period. A rondel can split mail rings quite easily.

It would be nice to see something like this implemented in a sequel with a more thorough grappling system. Even something simple, like using this for stealth kills or a "finishing" move would work fine. These were very common parts of knightly kit, and I think it was for a reason, so it only makes sense to include it.

It certainly makes more sense in my mind than bashing a bandit in full harness repeatedly with an arming sword.



While I was also a little disappointed by the minimal usage of polearms, it kind of brings home why they weren't used outside of deliberate warfare despite their obvious advantages, there is no way to carry it outside of a baggage cart or your hands.

The only other historical absurdity that I detected was when a character was shot in the armpit with an arrow, when he was conspicuously the only person wearing besagews covering the armpit.

 

[SlamDunk]

I don't know how on earth such a small team made such a game.

There's also this:

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I have minor critiques, mostly pertaining to the master strike mechanic.

Did you not follow my modding suggestion to remove master strike entirely (in the Codex review)? If you follow that and a few other ones I made there, KCD combat becomes an absolute HEMA wonderland.

 

[goregasm]

I have a pretty heavily modded playthrough currently installed on my pc, been a few months since I picked it up, but this discussion is probably going to change that.

Think I'm using the no mo slow mo, better combat and immersion comp, harsher economy mods and a few others from nexus and discord like camping, fishing, hud reduction etc.

Again it's been a little while, but I think this playthrough was sort of like an itinerant hunter (poacher) who was just wandering around for a bit living off the land. No horse, no home, no quests.

Was pretty fun just sort of "being" in the game, was also doing some home brew rules like only being able to buy weapons/armor rather than jumping on a rock, killing a bandit with a bow, and donning all of their gear.

 

[TedNugent]

I have minor critiques, mostly pertaining to the master strike mechanic.

Did you not follow my modding suggestion to remove master strike entirely (in the Codex review)? If you follow that and a few other ones I made there, KCD combat becomes an absolute HEMA wonderland.

No, I played it completely vanilla.

Having read your review now, though, I would suggest that there are several other high level combat systems, notably the first proper Chivalry: Medieval Warfare and Mordhau.

Chivalry's combat system was highly abused, but it ironically created additional depth. Mordhau was an attempt by a Chiv competitive player to "fix" the combat system. Both were splendid games in their heydey. High level and competitive players regularly made mincemeat of newbies, which ended up killing the games. The Chivalry devs tried to fix that situation by creating "newbie" servers until you reached a certain player rank, which was abused by sockpuppets going on a rampage and the other problem where once the kiddies left the shallow end of the pool, they got fucking proper murdered. Both witnessing duels between competitive players and occasionally having a duel with one myself in Chivalry were both nosebleed affairs. Some of the most intense combat I've ever seen in a game.

It looks janky and unrealistic as hell, but you can see that one slip and your head exploded. High level Chivalry was glorious.

Manual swing control still gives me a boner. Fuck those direction icons.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Being that those are multiplayer games, it's a pretty different barrel of fish from KCD.

 

[goregasm]

KCD is a bit more of a intentional combat system. Chivalry, Mordhau, hell even Warband is definitely geared more towards pvp duels imo.

I sort of like the system in KCD I certainly don't think it's wonderful or even enjoyable at times, but it's grown on me over the years, and I think while it can be improved in a possible sequel it served it purpose well for a single player game.

I also don't enjoy the sort of twitch reaction in those games mentioned, though it is impressive to me the reaction time these folks have. I play and played warband (mostly VC) for thousands of hours.

Always used attack directions by keyboard movement, but different strokes for different folks.

 

[TedNugent]

Well, regardless, the archery system was on point. I'm not typically one to use a bow and arrow in these sorts of games, but I practically defaulted to it for the most part. I cleared out Vranik on the way out purely by playing hunter and sending extra piercing arrows at bandits. Killed every last one of the sordid little assholes.

One very pleasurable way of dealing with Cumans was to shoot an arrow at their thigh so that their walk speed was reduced. They had a great habit of not wearing armor on their legs.

Side note, I am actually kind of annoyed that not a single enemy in the entire game ever rode a horse. The Cumans in particular should have had some mounted warriors, if not having that be their primary method of combat.

 

[NecroLord]

Kill the Coomans.

 

[agris]

not a single enemy in the entire game

:ackshully: the cumans that chase Henry at the start are on horseback

 

[TedNugent]

not a single enemy in the entire game

:ackshully: the cumans that chase Henry at the start are on horseback

In a scripted event, making it all the more conspicuously absent in the actual game.

IIRC there was event a talent specifically for dismounting opponents, which you never once get to use.

I get it, mounted combat was a thing you could do, without it being actually finished, so they didn't bother scattering mounted bandits in the wild.

But the idea of experiencing a mounted Cuman archer pulling tactics like they did in real life - wheeling around in the saddle at full gallop and landing arrows in feigned retreat. One of the things that I liked about this game is that it pulled no punches in combat. 3 armored bandits ambushing you on a road meant you were probably dead if you didn't bolt on your horse. Horse nomads were brutal fighters in real life and should have been scary as hell. A few warbands roaming in the saddle in the wild conducting swarm and retreat tactics would have presented a real problem.

 

[NecroLord]

not a single enemy in the entire game

:ackshully: the cumans that chase Henry at the start are on horseback

Coomans were about to culturally enrich Theresa.

 

[Jenkem]

Shame we'll never get another one...

 

[Vitruvian Bard]

Some offhand statement months ago said they were "busy" working on "something." Is Vavra even with them anymore?

 

[cvv]

Some offhand statement months ago said they were "busy" working on "something." Is Vavra even with them anymore?

Vavra is still with them, they're working on KCD2 (with 99% certainty) and it'll probably take a while. Even though the first game came out almost 6 years ago, presumably the sequel has been in full production for a much shorter time, so my guess is 2025?

 

[Jenkem]

"something" could be a Netflix television series starring Jaden Smith as Henry

 

[NecroLord]

"something" could be a Netflix television series starring Jaden Smith as Henry

And Zendaya as Theresa!!!

 

[cvv]

"something" could be a Netflix television series starring Jaden Smith as Henry

More likely Jada Pinkett Smith.

 

[SlamDunk]

IIRC there was event a talent specifically for dismounting opponents, which you never once get to use.

I get it, mounted combat was a thing you could do, without it being actually finished, so they didn't bother scattering mounted bandits in the wild.

https://old.reddit.com/r/kingdomcome/comments/15x1575/no_mounted_enemies/jx6l6i0/

Yes, it's true. Mounted combat was planned for NPCs as well, but we were not able to resolve it for the release of Kingdom Come: Deliverance in a satisfying way. The perk is indeed a leftover of it.

 

[NecroLord]

IIRC there was event a talent specifically for dismounting opponents, which you never once get to use.

I get it, mounted combat was a thing you could do, without it being actually finished, so they didn't bother scattering mounted bandits in the wild.

https://old.reddit.com/r/kingdomcome/comments/15x1575/no_mounted_enemies/jx6l6i0/

Yes, it's true. Mounted combat was planned for NPCs as well, but we were not able to resolve it for the release of Kingdom Come: Deliverance in a satisfying way. The perk is indeed a leftover of it.

Am I the only one who already sees tourneys in the game?

 

[VerSacrum]

"something" could be a Netflix television series starring Jaden Smith as Henry

How about Henry starring as Henry instead

 

[NecroLord]

"something" could be a Netflix television series starring Jaden Smith as Henry

How about Henry starring as Henry instead

I remember seeing Tom McKay in some movie set in Ancient Rome. He was pretty good in it, but the movie itself was cringe and ultraviolent almost to the point of parody. Had rape too, so it tried to go full Game of Thrones...