Codex Interview Knights of the Chalice 2 Pre-Kickstarter Interview

[Jvegi]

It looks ok.

I thought KotC1 was a cult classic, at least semi- decently known, but after googling it it doesn't seem to be anywhere close to the popularity level of fucking Grimoire. No reviews, just a few fameplay videos with ~1k views... If that is the case I can see why you people are so bothered about unappealing graphics scaring off customers. They are very few.

I don't like the idea of enemies coming in waves. I hope it will be a rare occurance. It's artificial and turns resource management into guesswork. Probably.

 

[Farewell into the night]

It looks ok.

I thought KotC1 was a cult classic, at least semi- decently known, but after googling it it doesn't seem to be anywhere close to the popularity level of fucking Grimoire.

KotC1 is more like an elitist hidden gem game. It has it's players, but they don't dabble in YouTube videos. This will change in the future.

 

[Strange Fellow]

It looks ok.

I thought KotC1 was a cult classic, at least semi- decently known, but after googling it it doesn't seem to be anywhere close to the popularity level of fucking Grimoire.

KotC1 is more like an elitist hidden gem game. It has it's players, but they don't dabble in YouTube videos. This will change in the future.

The real reason KotC has such a tiny audience even compared to its indie RPG peers is that it's not on Steam or GOG. The sequel won't have that problem, so the potential for massive growth is there. Graphics will play a significant part in that, for better or worse.

 

[Excommunicator]

Definite skyrim killer

 

[cruelio]

There are plenty of great artists out there starving for work, besides if Pierre wasn't such an autist he would be swimming in the dough by now and could afford good artwork and animations that would improve gameplay (that's what we are talking about, improving not replacing).

All the starving artists chomping at the bit to do countless hours of animation and art design work for a game five people on rpg codex have heard of. It’s so easy!

 

[you know what time it is]

There are plenty of great artists out there starving for work, besides if Pierre wasn't such an autist he would be swimming in the dough by now and could afford good artwork and animations that would improve gameplay (that's what we are talking about, improving not replacing).

All the starving artists chomping at the bit to do countless hours of animation and art design work for a game five people on rpg codex have heard of. It’s so easy!

I never said there was a line waiting for Pierre's permission to start slaving away, what I was saying is that there's a lot of good workers out there that are willing to work for cheap, you just have to find them (and it's not that hard). I had a pleasure of outsourcing bunch of shit to freelancers back in the day, specifically in the art department, it's not all unicorns and sunshine of course, but they got the job done.

 

[Trashos]

I don't like the idea of enemies coming in waves. I hope it will be a rare occurance. It's artificial and turns resource management into guesswork. Probably.

Agreed. Why is being able to judge the situation and strategize accordingly a bad thing?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I’ll reread the other thread and watch some vids on this if there are any. I’ve been messing around pulling tilesets from a few appleII and c64 games and Lordy let me tell you they make these look state of the art.

My only concern would be reading the numbers on the tokens. Not everyone has giant screens so if I can’t read data pertinent to the game I’m going to be frustrated. So it’s token. Big deal. I recall Stuart Smith when he designed Fracas for AppleII stating the importance to draw upon your imagination from the text.

People are lacking in imagination as well as math skills these days yet pnp still has a ton of new content coming out. Be glad the game doesn’t have you doing math, grammar, and spelling in it.

 

[Murk]

TBH if he made little figurine style tokens I'd like them more than the pogs, and I don't think the effort would be _radically_ different (assuming he made the art on the tokens now, if it's taken from somewhere else then... well, nevermind).

 

[aratuk]

I don't like the idea of enemies coming in waves. I hope it will be a rare occurance. It's artificial and turns resource management into guesswork. Probably.

Agreed. Why is being able to judge the situation and strategize accordingly a bad thing?

Sometimes you can't predict the intended actions of others, or even their number.

Sometimes you don't know what will happen, and life can be scary.

It might feel very unfair when this also happens in your safe place, in a game, but that is only to help prepare you for the wild and woolly world outside that awaits you, when you're ready.

 

[Excommunicator]

There are plenty of great artists out there starving for work, besides if Pierre wasn't such an autist he would be swimming in the dough by now and could afford good artwork and animations that would improve gameplay (that's what we are talking about, improving not replacing).

All the starving artists chomping at the bit to do countless hours of animation and art design work for a game five people on rpg codex have heard of. It’s so easy!

No one wants to work for someone who doesn't see the point of you doing the work to begin with

 

[Trashos]

I don't like the idea of enemies coming in waves. I hope it will be a rare occurance. It's artificial and turns resource management into guesswork. Probably.

Agreed. Why is being able to judge the situation and strategize accordingly a bad thing?

Sometimes you can't predict the intended actions of others, or even their number.

Sometimes you don't know what will happen, and life can be scary.

It might feel very unfair when this also happens in your safe place, in a game, but that is only to help prepare you for the wild and woolly world outside that awaits you, when you're ready.

Sure. I just don't find it interesting in tactical or strategy games. What I find interesting in games like this is the planning/strategizing I have to do. If I cannot do that, there is nothing for me in the game.

 

[commie]

TBH if he made little figurine style tokens I'd like them more than the pogs, and I don't think the effort would be _radically_ different (assuming he made the art on the tokens now, if it's taken from somewhere else then... well, nevermind).

Exactly..it's so hard to make them icons like from Gold Box?

 

[Mortmal]

I’ll reread the other thread and watch some vids on this if there are any. I’ve been messing around pulling tilesets from a few appleII and c64 games and Lordy let me tell you they make these look state of the art.

My only concern would be reading the numbers on the tokens. Not everyone has giant screens so if I can’t read data pertinent to the game I’m going to be frustrated. So it’s token. Big deal. I recall Stuart Smith when he designed Fracas for AppleII stating the importance to draw upon your imagination from the text.

People are lacking in imagination as well as math skills these days yet pnp still has a ton of new content coming out. Be glad the game doesn’t have you doing math, grammar, and spelling in it.

Nope sorry try harder..1988 pool of radiance still looks better . This was on c64 and apple 2 too.

 

[Mortmal]

Oh my C64 version:

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Since we want to post pictures of comparison.

The last is Fracas and just about = to ASCII. Shit, why not just go back to ascii for all games? No need for artists.

 

[Mortmal]

KeighnMcDeath you dont get the point of it at all , but that's to be expected you are a 2016 newfag. So as an act of pity , i'll explain it to you again. On my pool or radiance screenshot you can identify the baddies 4 gnolls, a 2H fighter a paladin, a cleric a mage, a rogue. As primitive the pixel art is, as old the game is it does a better job than kotc 2 , if you can stomach the view at all , you can identify some monsters some turds and some characters looking beyond retarded .One is charming oldschool pixel art, the other an abomination, something so bad it could only cater to neckbeards with absolutely no taste. Even amongst the rpgcodex crowd, it's very few people, we are neckbeard, autists and incels but with refined gentlemen tastes...

 

[agentorange]

Pierre is someone intent on doing everything by himself, despite the fact that he clearly only has talent in the mechanical design area. Someone who is a complete amateur at something is often blind to just how bad they really are, and the "I can draw anything in photoshop" line that Excom pointed out really underscores this mentality. I can also compose anything I want in Ableton, but at least I can recognize that what I composed sounds like shit, so I would defer to someone who knows what they are doing. Not only are the illustrations aggressively ugly and incompetent, they look like the scribblings of a child, but the style of presentation in general is disjointed and all over the place. It looks like the result of someone planning a game out with placeholder graphics and then they accidentally released the game with those temporary graphics. Mortmal is spot on in what he is saying, that older games might not have had graphics with modern fidelity or any sort of artistry, but at the very least they were clear and consistent, whereas KC2 is neither.

And video games are a visual medium, so ignoring that core component of how they are presented would be asinine.

 

[flushfire]

I never said there was a line waiting for Pierre's permission to start slaving away, what I was saying is that there's a lot of good workers out there that are willing to work for cheap, you just have to find them (and it's not that hard). I had a pleasure of outsourcing bunch of shit to freelancers back in the day, specifically in the art department, it's not all unicorns and sunshine of course, but they got the job done.

Back when flash games were still a thing, I knew someone who at the start made less than $400 a game, and the artist's fee still had to be paid. 'Course those were just small, 1 week armor games fodder. Before officially launching his own studio a couple years ago, I recall a major project by one of their artists whom I also knew, a tower defense game with pixel art and lots of different backgrounds and animated units, took it for what amounts to $5 an hour, 5x the minimum wage in our country at the time. Cmiiw but I think US McDonald's paid twice as much. Also in comparison my gf who was a gradeschool teacher was getting only $300/mo.

Guy just has to hire someone from a thirld-world country.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

KeighnMcDeath you dont get the point of it at all , but that's to be expected you are a 2016 newfag. So as an act of pity , i'll explain it to you again. On my pool or radiance screenshot you can identify the baddies 4 gnolls, a 2H fighter a paladin, a cleric a mage, a rogue. As primitive the pixel art is, as old the game is it does a better job than kotc 2 , if you can stomach the view at all , you can identify some monsters some turds and some characters looking beyond retarded .One is charming oldschool pixel art, the other an abomination, something so bad it could only cater to neckbeards with absolutely no taste. Even amongst the rpgcodex crowd, it's very few people, we are neckbeard, autists and incels but with refined gentlemen tastes...

You must be a motherfucking retarded bitch because I know for a fact that’s 4 orcs in the first pic not 4 gnolls which are 2x1 tall with a fauchard fork looking pole arm. And the c64 is an ogre unless you’re so fucking stupid your brains are up your ass.

No wonder you can’t id shit. You’re a fucking numb nuts faggot who sucks so much cock you became perma jizz blinded.

The only oddity in the 2nd is the orc leaders are displaying as orc. Been a while since I played poolrad but there may be a few mob placements renamed. But gnolls? Oh fucking no. Not even close. And to my knowledge... no fucking paladins in Pool of Radiance. The came in Curse of Azure bonds. Damn... did you even play the game or just wiki/google and post pics to look like you know your shit. Fucking fail retard!

 

[Rpguy]

I think a small change like PC characters are in circles while the monsters are in squares would help make this mess a little bit clearer.

 

[Mortmal]

Shhh.. KeighnMcDeath , embrace the butthurt , let it flow through you ,what wont kill you will make you stronger. You lost an internet argument vs an old guy, that's a shame , a disgrace. The sudden realization came to your mind, mommy was wrong , you are neither the prettiest nor the most clever boy. But dont be too harsh on yourself you are just a 2016 newfag with an undertale avatar you did not start on even ground.

To be honest i am a bit butthurt too, but not for the same reasons. As AO said Pierre is good on the mechanical side of things, really kotc IA was some piece of work. I dont even know where to start to code a D&D IA taking everything into account. He really did the hard part, thats why it's infuriating to ruin such a game with a layer of shit over it. Getting good tokens that's trivial, he probably could negotiate with some guys doing assets for roll 20 or FG2 and get existing work for cheap.

Damn look at the fighter entry for Kotc 2:

First thing i see when i look for a fighter when browsing art forums:




Or if you are less into photorealistic stuff and more into retro, SSI style, you could find good things too like that fearsome halfling warrior:

 

[Farewell into the night]

I prefere KotC2 art, because it leaves an empty space for imagination

 

[Mortmal]

So yes for those wondering first one is Morrayan Avis Cousland art by Anna Helme, second one is Rage of the drunken halfling art by LeStryfe79 .

 

[Mortmal]

Damn pretty good artist that one :

And here's one for jaesun before he gets trigger happy again: