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KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Current optimal party idea, v 4.2:

?Human? Psionicist (stomp feat)
Human Cleric (Celerity and Pandaemonium for OP 1x rest abilities?, Improved Iniative)
Dwarf Gladiator (trip, blinding strike focus)
Half-Giant Barbarian (damage)
Human/Elf Wizard(or Mage Knight) (high Con, Improved Iniative, Raven familiar)
Human Paladin or Death Knight (extra healing to supplement the cleric, good damage against undead/evil/chaos, auras)

Any of the Humans can be Halflings, or possibily a Drake for a class with a lot of downtime.
However, this party might be lacking in skill checks without a Rogue/Bard?
 

Koschey

Arcane
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
622
Location
Germany
Haven't played much yet (basically created my first party and only got in like 10-15 minutes of gameplay), so mostly just some first impressions gleaned from character creation/scouring the options menu:

1. Easy mode toggle as described in the options menu is useless if it really only modifies inflicted damage. Difficulty in DnD based games usually lies in disabling abilities and spells that are completely unaffected by damage modifications. No idea how feasible fundamentally changing it at this stage is, but to actually affect difficulty, you would probably want to lower/increase save DCs and saving throws across the board appropriately.
2. I'm not sure how good an idea it is for the saves to scale of the average of two ability modifiers in the long term. I get that this is probably an attempt to avoid safe dump stats, but now it is twice as costly to increase saving throws than it is to increase save DCs in terms of ability modifiers. I just hope it won't lead to something like weak saves being entirely useless and even strong saves only succeeding <50% of the time at high levels.
3. Rolling for HP. I really liked that KotC offered the option to always take the HD average instead of rolling for HP on levelup. No randomness, but also no HP bloat. So I'm somewhat disappointed to not see this option return for KotC2.
4. Starting equipment: How is the assignment handled internally? In the character creation process or in the initialisation of the respective modules? I see nothing wrong with rolling for coin during character creaton and being given the opportunity to purchase basic equipment and supplies, either during creation as well or in an appropriate starting area in a module. An alternative would be smarter assignment of starting equipment. If I build my mantis gladiator for multi-weapon fighting, feats and all, I probably don't want her to lug around a greatsword.
5. Difficulty in general. As I said, haven't gotten far at all yet, but the couple of tries I had at the second(!) encounter went basically: crash door -> too far away from enemies to use surprise round to disable spellcasters -> majority of party loses initiative, gets webbed, then fireballed flaming sphered -> stragglers finished of by barbarian. Granted, I didn't try that often (like I said, haven't gotten much gameplay in yet), so I'm certain I haven't yet tried all tools at my disposal, in part simply because other games basically never offer those (ready vs spell with ranged weapons to try to interrupt the casting?), but the fact remains that the second encounter already involves going up against at least one 5th level spell caster (not sure about the cleric) 2 3rd level spell casters + melee cronies as a first level party. Edit: Don't crash the door, open normally and bluff with dialogue option of choice.Way more managable.
Skimming the thread, it does seem like this problem exacerbates the further you go in the game. A pity, considering the encounters in KotC were pretty well paced, not every single encounter has to be against the motherfucking Orc Stockade Gnolls.
6. I think it would be preferable to hide unavailable skill checks in dialogue, at least as an option. It's less cluttered and changes the player focus from noticing what his party can't do to what it can do ("Oh nice, my X can do Y here!" instead of "Oh gee, a long list of skill options, all but one or two of them unavailable.")
7. Might be just my first impression, but I get the feeling the game is less transparent about enemy statistics. At least I haven't found a way to access them yet, as you could in KotC. Edit: I am retarded. Press V while hovering over or right-click until cursor turns into a gauntlet and click on respective NPC

Probably won't get a chance to seriously delve in until the next weekend :/
 
Last edited:

VentilatorOfDoom

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1. Easy mode toggle as described in the options menu is useless if it really only modifies inflicted damage. Difficulty in DnD based games usually lies in disabling abilities and spells that are completely unaffected by damage modifications. No idea how feasible fundamentally changing it at this stage is, but to actually affect difficulty, you would probably want to lower/increase save DCs and saving throws across the board appropriately.
easy difficulty give -20% XP, so it's actually the hard difficulty
 

Sergiu64

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,644
Location
Sic semper tyrannis.
Current optimal party idea, v 4.2:

?Human? Psionicist (stomp feat)
Human Cleric (Celerity and Pandaemonium for OP 1x rest abilities?, Improved Iniative)
Dwarf Gladiator (trip, blinding strike focus)
Half-Giant Barbarian (damage)
Human/Elf Wizard(or Mage Knight) (high Con, Improved Iniative, Raven familiar)
Human Paladin or Death Knight (extra healing to supplement the cleric, good damage against undead/evil/chaos, auras)

Any of the Humans can be Halflings, or possibily a Drake for a class with a lot of downtime.
However, this party might be lacking in skill checks without a Rogue/Bard?

I haven't created my party yet, but don't the mantis monks seem overpowered? Seems like they get 5 attacks right off the bat. Other idea was a Half Giant Psychic Warrior with Expand abuse. But not sure how quickly the PP points go.
 

Rpguy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,169
Pathfinder: Wrath
On my second playthrough, I just can't seem to get to the sewers after fighting yanos without crashing, I've done it 5 times already. Think I'll just wait for next week. ( or more... )

Edit: 8 times now.
 
Last edited:

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Haven't played much yet (basically created my first party and only got in like 10-15 minutes of gameplay), so mostly just some first impressions gleaned from character creation/scouring the options menu:

1. Easy mode toggle as described in the options menu is useless if it really only modifies inflicted damage. Difficulty in DnD based games usually lies in disabling abilities and spells that are completely unaffected by damage modifications. No idea how feasible fundamentally changing it at this stage is, but to actually affect difficulty, you would probably want to lower/increase save DCs and saving throws across the board appropriately.
2. I'm not sure how good an idea it is for the saves to scale of the average of two ability modifiers in the long term. I get that this is probably an attempt to avoid safe dump stats, but now it is twice as costly to increase saving throws than it is to increase save DCs in terms of ability modifiers. I just hope it won't lead to something like weak saves being entirely useless and even strong saves only succeeding <50% of the time at high levels.
3. Rolling for HP. I really liked that KotC offered the option to always take the HD average instead of rolling for HP on levelup. No randomness, but also no HP bloat. So I'm somewhat disappointed to not see this option return for KotC2.
4. Starting equipment: How is the assignment handled internally? In the character creation process or in the initialisation of the respective modules? I see nothing wrong with rolling for coin during character creaton and being given the opportunity to purchase basic equipment and supplies, either during creation as well or in an appropriate starting area in a module. An alternative would be smarter assignment of starting equipment. If I build my mantis gladiator for multi-weapon fighting, feats and all, I probably don't want her to lug around a greatsword.
5. Difficulty in general. As I said, haven't gotten far at all yet, but the couple of tries I had at the second(!) encounter went basically: crash door -> too far away from enemies to use surprise round to disable spellcasters -> majority of party loses initiative, gets webbed, then fireballed -> stragglers finished of by barbarian. Granted, I didn't try that often (like I said, haven't gotten much gameplay in yet), so I'm certain I haven't yet tried all tools at my disposal, in part simply because other games basically never offer those (ready vs spell with ranged weapons to try to interrupt the casting?), but the fact remains that the second encounter already involves going up against at least one 5th level spell caster (not sure about the cleric) + melee cronies as a first level party.
Skimming the thread, it does seem like this problem exacerbates the further you go in the game. A pity, considering the encounters in KotC were pretty well paced, not every single encounter has to be against the motherfucking Orc Stockade Gnolls.
6. I think it would be preferable to hide unavailable skill checks in dialogue, at least as an option. It's less cluttered and changes the player focus from noticing what his party can't do to what it can do ("Oh nice, my X can do Y here!" instead of "Oh gee, a long list of skill options, all but one or two of them unavailable.")
7. Might be just my first impression, but I get the feeling the game is less transparent about enemy statistics. At least I haven't found a way to access them yet, as you could in KotC.

Probably won't get a chance to seriously delve in until the next weekend :/

For you and everyone else:

TO SEE AN ENEMY'S FEATS AND GEAR AND ABILITIES AND STATS:
1. Hover over an enemy
2. Press "I" to show his inventory
3. Click on "Character" to see the enemy's character sheet.

Edit:

1. Hover over an enemy
2. Press "V"
 
Last edited:

VentilatorOfDoom

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Staff Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
8,603
Location
Deutschland
what are those checks in the beginning? I have a cleric yet can't use the religion check. Have a wizard but can't use arcana check. Search check 0 vs DC 22. Right at the start of the game.
You need to restart. You probably don't really have all your characters. Cleric can do the religion checks and wizard can do the arcana. It's a bug the first time you start a game that it doesn't include all of your characters. Open the inventory and see how many are in the list on the top-right.
That was the problem, however now i see all my party members up right, cleric still can't do the religion check, warlock can't do arcana, nobody can beat the 22 DC search check.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
On my second playthrough, I just can't seem to get to the sewers after fighting yanos without crashing, I've done it 5 times already. Think I'll just wait for next week. ( or more... )
Same fight is long and hard enough without those crashes
 

Koschey

Arcane
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
622
Location
Germany
For you and everyone else:

TO SEE AN ENEMY'S FEATS AND GEAR AND ABILITIES AND STATS:
1. Hover over an enemy
2. Press "I" to show his inventory
3. Click on "Character" to see the enemy's character sheet.

Thanks! Guess it makes sense (not in the "this is well designed" sense, but the "I could have thought of that" sense). Reminds me of a point I forgot in my list:

8. To switch between different party members' character sheets, you apparently have to take the detour over their inventory sheets.
Edit: I'm a retard, arrow keys work just fine

Also, just to be clear, since I just read about the wave of people demanding refunds: I'm not trying to bash the game and am pretty confident that sooner or probably later, after some rounds of fixing and rebalancing, this will turn out great, like KotC. But it definitely needs a lot of work still. So just have patience. Guess this isn't relevant to the Codex
 
Last edited:

Dyskolos

Cipher
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
571
Location
Eumeswil
4. Starting equipment: How is the assignment handled internally? In the character creation process or in the initialisation of the respective modules? I see nothing wrong with rolling for coin during character creaton and being given the opportunity to purchase basic equipment and supplies, either during creation as well or in an appropriate starting area in a module. An alternative would be smarter assignment of starting equipment. If I build my mantis gladiator for multi-weapon fighting, feats and all, I probably don't want her to lug around a greatsword./

No idea on how it's handled but I just edited the module and placed the starting equipment I wanted for my party on the floor of the opening room. You should be able to place an npc there as well and dump gold on the ground (in case purchasing feels like cheesy to you) but I haven't messed with that functionality yet.

And very much agree on skill check (in)visibility. I already have issues enough wanting to restart based on combat skills, I don't need to know what else I'm missing.
 

Rpguy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,169
Pathfinder: Wrath
Is it actually possible to win the yanos fight and get teleported to the sewers without crashing or do you have to tell him you work for him? did anyone succeed?
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
Current optimal party idea, v 4.2:

?Human? Psionicist (stomp feat)
Human Cleric (Celerity and Pandaemonium for OP 1x rest abilities?, Improved Iniative)
Dwarf Gladiator (trip, blinding strike focus)
Half-Giant Barbarian (damage)
Human/Elf Wizard(or Mage Knight) (high Con, Improved Iniative, Raven familiar)
Human Paladin or Death Knight (extra healing to supplement the cleric, good damage against undead/evil/chaos, auras)

Any of the Humans can be Halflings, or possibily a Drake for a class with a lot of downtime.
However, this party might be lacking in skill checks without a Rogue/Bard?

I haven't created my party yet, but don't the mantis monks seem overpowered? Seems like they get 5 attacks right off the bat. Other idea was a Half Giant Psychic Warrior with Expand abuse. But not sure how quickly the PP points go.
No they miss too much and damage is suboptimal, there's lot of gear in ktoc 2.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
Is it actually possible to win the yanos fight and get teleported to the sewers without crashing or do you have to tell him you work for him? did anyone succeed?
During my first playthrough it worked, now its completely impossible without crashing.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I never got past that fight without using the "we join you" option. By which I mean, I did beat the fight several times, but it always crashed after.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
what are those checks in the beginning? I have a cleric yet can't use the religion check. Have a wizard but can't use arcana check. Search check 0 vs DC 22. Right at the start of the game.
You need to restart. You probably don't really have all your characters. Cleric can do the religion checks and wizard can do the arcana. It's a bug the first time you start a game that it doesn't include all of your characters. Open the inventory and see how many are in the list on the top-right.
That was the problem, however now i see all my party members up right, cleric still can't do the religion check, warlock can't do arcana, nobody can beat the 22 DC search check.
Do not make a party after creating a character. Create them, leave the game , then assemble the party, else its bugged and half skill checks dont work.
 

Noddy

Augur
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
220
Is it actually possible to win the yanos fight and get teleported to the sewers without crashing or do you have to tell him you work for him? did anyone succeed?
Took me 8+ attempts on the first go but yeah it happened eventually.
I was spamming ctrl-s at the time, but this is probably just rainmaking. I was just trying stupid shit and i think i finally got lucky.
 

Tweed

Professional Kobold
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Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
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harsh circumstances
Pathfinder: Wrath
Cleared the 5 crypts and would have killed the baubaus if I hadn't tried to reload my sling and loaded the game instead. What's at the top of the ladder?
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
Oh by the way , diving in the pool. First select a character, then wait 5 sec then select the second else it will crash.
 

cruelio

Augur
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
370
Go to the kickstarter and read this very thread and find plenty of people having the same issues. It's 2020 and cucks still post "Works on My Machine (TM)" to feel good about getting ripped off. Pathetic.
Since saving custom characters certainly has something to do with saving data to the hard disk we can make some guesses as to what is the cause.

- when I started the game the firewall prevented it from running because it isn't signed or whatever, make sure your antivirus/firewall/other security program doesn't prevent the game from writing data to HD
- could be a permission issue as in the folder you installed it to has no write permissions (for your user), to make sure install the game to a custom folder (in my case C:\Games\Knights of the Chalice 2) and make sure in the folder properties that the folder isn't read-only. You could also make your current user the owner of that folder to circumvent most of the win10 related permission crap. Another try might be to run Kotc2.exe as administrator.

Sounds logical, I’ll give it a try when I get home.
 

Noddy

Augur
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
220
You can right-click to cycle through options until you get the hand, then just click on people to see enemy characters sheets too.
 

Rpguy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,169
Pathfinder: Wrath
Is it actually possible to win the yanos fight and get teleported to the sewers without crashing or do you have to tell him you work for him? did anyone succeed?
Took me 8+ attempts on the first go but yeah it happened eventually.
I was spamming ctrl-s at the time, but this is probably just rainmaking. I was just trying stupid shit and i think i finally got lucky.

Holy shit it worked, I don't know if I was lucky as well but spamming ctrl+s worked on first try ( after 10+ tries of crashing )
 

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