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Of curse it will work. Any game played non-ironman can be beaten assuming you play well enough to create the opportunity. It is only a matter of number of reloads. With 100% melee it would be beyond realistic or even mathematical possibility but with two casters and competent play - i am sure it's a matter of patience.
Well thats the issue. Yeah it feasible, just reload until your 2 casters get better initiatives and press the I win button is not really good.
In the end the encounter of KotC2 is fun, but start from middle of the game it largely become whose caster get better initiatives , the issue Reinhardt posted. Having lower amount of caster just basically move the probability of you rolling the I win button to be lower but doesn't really change the fundamental issue when replaying the game as you have to do the win initiatives -> press win button spells.
This is a problem with high level dnd in general. Pierre is making it "worse" by designing a challenging game with competent AI. Easy game, dumb AI that can't select a good spells even if its life depended on it = problem solved.
Just don't do any DnD above level 12, 14 at most. That would alleviate the problem and high level dnd is silly anyway for more reasons than OP spells.
In the end the encounter of KotC2 is fun, but start from middle of the game it largely become whose caster get better initiatives , the issue Reinhardt posted. Having lower amount of caster just basically move the probability of you rolling the I win button to be lower but doesn't really change the fundam
That is why tb early to mid levels dnd > all other dnd.
And not just because of OP spells. Also see above. The fact ID2 is rtwp and supposedly(!) has good high level combat doesn't mean that there is more than a correlation. Throne of Baal was high level and RTwP and bad.
Of curse it will work. Any game played non-ironman can be beaten assuming you play well enough to create the opportunity. It is only a matter of number of reloads. With 100% melee it would be beyond realistic or even mathematical possibility but with two casters and competent play - i am sure it's a matter of patience.
Well thats the issue. Yeah it feasible, just reload until your 2 casters get better initiatives and press the I win button is not really good.
In the end the encounter of KotC2 is fun, but start from middle of the game it largely become whose caster get better initiatives , the issue Reinhardt posted. Having lower amount of caster just basically move the probability of you rolling the I win button to be lower but doesn't really change the fundamental issue when replaying the game as you have to do the win initiatives -> press win button spells.
You're making so many unexamined assumptions. Why do you leave all your non-casters without options to disrupt the enemy? You win initiative with your fourth caster, I win with my Ranger and Ready vs Spell on the enemy dude who got lucky. And my diverse party gets surprise/wins surprise far more often because I've covered skill checks you haven't. For emergencies give your Rogue tons of initiative and make sure she has some items/scrolls to fire off.
The whole reason I'm playing a diverse party is to reduce the variability you take for granted (and to increase my staying power with abilities that don't require rest). You've got it completely backwards.
Lol, then fire off an acorn. Rangers do in fact get some spells too if that's what it takes.
But no he's talking about exactly that scenario if he's talking about having to reload unless my caster gets initiative. My non-(full)-caster(s) disrupts/kills whoever wins over my casters if it's a fight that requires that.
OMG endgame !!111!!!1!!!
Yeah, that's why I'm only running one full martial at most. By then pretty much everyone but full martial has options for mass disruption.
Lol, then fire off an acorn. Rangers do in fact get some spells too if that's what it takes.
But no he's talking about exactly that scenario if he's talking about having to reload unless my caster gets initiative. My non-(full)-caster(s) disrupts/kills whoever wins over my casters if it's a fight that requires that.
OMG endgame !!111!!!1!!!
Yeah, that's why I'm only running one full martial at most. By then pretty much everyone but full martial has options for mass disruption.
There are like 6 different classes of pure martial (no spells, no bard): gladiator, fighter, barbarian, dark knight, samurai, monk, perhaps I forgot something) . If you can't take 3 or 4 in a party of 8 and instead must take casters, full ones or hybrids, then we already have some problem.
In addition if any enemy caster - out of several - rolls very high and go before all your guys, then what?
High level DnD is broken, even without some of the most broken pnp spells, no matter how you twist it.
What equipment for bard for archmage difficulty? It might be hard to make melee viable since you need to max charisma and pump con/int/dex for initiative so bow maybe? But since there seems to be quite many useful bard feats you probably dont have enough spare feats to get most of those.
so just shield + attribute stick?
^trying to summon elemental but game thinks I want flame strike. it fixes itself when I exit out caster window then reopen it, but man, that's annoying.
Lol, then fire off an acorn. Rangers do in fact get some spells too if that's what it takes.
But no he's talking about exactly that scenario if he's talking about having to reload unless my caster gets initiative. My non-(full)-caster(s) disrupts/kills whoever wins over my casters if it's a fight that requires that.
OMG endgame !!111!!!1!!!
Yeah, that's why I'm only running one full martial at most. By then pretty much everyone but full martial has options for mass disruption.
There are like 6 different classes of pure martial (no spells, no bard): gladiator, fighter, barbarian, dark knight, samurai, monk, perhaps I forgot something) . If you can't take 3 or 4 in a party of 8 and instead must take casters, full ones or hybrids, then we already have some problem.
In addition if any enemy caster - out of several - rolls very high and go before all your guys, then what?
High level DnD is broken, even without some of the most broken pnp spells, no matter how you twist it.
Idk man, just because I'm leaning toward hybrids doesn't mean that pure martials can't get there too. I've still got a LOT to learn. Maybe the all-caster people are even right.
The Fighter in the tutorial carried me almost single-handedly in several fights. I'm intrigued by the three Shake it Off feats on Fighter. Seems like you could get to the point where enemy casters going first wouldn't even matter to Fighter. Likewise Monk with the SR and high base saves.
What equipment for bard for archmage difficulty? It might be hard to make melee viable since you need to max charisma and pump con/int/dex for initiative so bow maybe? But since there seems to be quite many useful bard feats you probably dont have enough spare feats to get most of those.
so just shield + attribute stick?
I'm having decent luck with debuffing Bow. Human + bonus Feats is enough to get what you need as long as you're fine with starting with 18 CHR instead of 20. Been dumping INT to get there.
The town is really interesting, as it feels like a more traditional RPG rather than a massive dungeon crawl. Writing is dry but functional like always, but has fun interactions and quests.
Looking at the descriptions Pierre wrote of future KOTC2 modules, would really like if he kept the same quality as the town but using the open-world-ish structure of KOTC1.
Lol, then fire off an acorn. Rangers do in fact get some spells too if that's what it takes.
But no he's talking about exactly that scenario if he's talking about having to reload unless my caster gets initiative. My non-(full)-caster(s) disrupts/kills whoever wins over my casters if it's a fight that requires that.
OMG endgame !!111!!!1!!!
Yeah, that's why I'm only running one full martial at most. By then pretty much everyone but full martial has options for mass disruption.
There are like 6 different classes of pure martial (no spells, no bard): gladiator, fighter, barbarian, dark knight, samurai, monk, perhaps I forgot something) . If you can't take 3 or 4 in a party of 8 and instead must take casters, full ones or hybrids, then we already have some problem.
In addition if any enemy caster - out of several - rolls very high and go before all your guys, then what?
High level DnD is broken, even without some of the most broken pnp spells, no matter how you twist it.
Idk man, just because I'm leaning toward hybrids doesn't mean that pure martials can't get there too. I've still got a LOT to learn. Maybe the all-caster people are even right.
The Fighter in the tutorial carried me almost single-handedly in several fights. I'm intrigued by the three Shake it Off feats on Fighter. Seems like you could get to the point where enemy casters going first wouldn't even matter to Fighter. Likewise Monk with the SR and high base saves.
Some of your favourite theory crafting:
The issue with Shake It Off is that it still requires a dice roll IIRC. This means two things: You need semi-decent saving throws for it to work, fighter is not strong at this; If you are struck with a high DC spell, it is still highly random and can take more than one turn to win the roll and remove the effect. I doubt it will work well enough. I took a level early with some annoying effects included but I hardly saw any practical gain.
I'd say Monk has better chance to become magic-resistant. Make him a Halfling for the +2 saves and take all the feats (=4) for another +3 to all, for a total of +5 on top of monk's saves. He will be half-useless but very resistant :D. As to high SR, already in chapter 2 there is a cloak +28 SR iirc. Costly as f*** but is an option.
End of theory.
Some of your favourite theory crafting:
The issue with Shake It Off is that it still requires a dice roll IIRC. This means two things: You need semi-decent saving throws for it to work, fighter is not strong at this; If you are struck with a high DC spell, it is still highly random and can take more than one turn to win the roll and remove the effect. I doubt it will work well enough. I took a level early with some annoying effects included but I hardly saw any practical gain.
I'd say Monk has better chance to become magic-resistant. Make him a Halfling for the +2 saves and take all the feats (=4) for another +3 to all, for a total of +5 on top of monk's saves. He will be half-useless but very resistant :D. As to high SR, already in chapter 2 there is a cloak +28 SR iirc. Costly as f*** but is an option.
End of theory.
That's interesting. So Fighter has the payoff but needs the engine (high saves via Halfling, +5 Cloak, etc) while Monk has the engine but needs the payoff. I'll take a look at that when I'm done with this party.
Monk already gets SR at lvl +5 that turns on at lvl 12 I think. How does SR stack?
Positive theorycrafting is essential to set up good tests. Negative theorycrafting is useless except in very broad terms. I think it's safe to say half-Sal Warlock isn't a thing.
I've actually been iterating with item sets from different games for a while, though your image certainly confirmed that I was on the right path. I think I'm settling down with the Diablo 2 look, probably pixelize it a bit.
What I've no idea where I'll head next with yet, are the action icons (use/split/forge/etc.).
In any case, I'm stuck in the theme development until I get an answer for some questions I sent Pierre. There's some stuff like those black outline fonts whose source I haven't been able to find. If anyone knows, do tell me.
diablo looks like good source of jewelry pics - that's one field bb lacking. good enough for my melee low magic campaign but for something more traditional it would be a problem.
Of curse it will work. Any game played non-ironman can be beaten assuming you play well enough to create the opportunity. It is only a matter of number of reloads. With 100% melee it would be beyond realistic or even mathematical possibility but with two casters and competent play - i am sure it's a matter of patience.
Well thats the issue. Yeah it feasible, just reload until your 2 casters get better initiatives and press the I win button is not really good.
In the end the encounter of KotC2 is fun, but start from middle of the game it largely become whose caster get better initiatives , the issue Reinhardt posted. Having lower amount of caster just basically move the probability of you rolling the I win button to be lower but doesn't really change the fundamental issue when replaying the game as you have to do the win initiatives -> press win button spells.
At least limited initiative boosting gear means it doesn't hurt the probability as much to have fewer casters since the geared ones are most important.
after all your replays and knowing correct order of fights and locations of key equips you are not even sure it will work.
i'm not saying it's wrong - men in dresses need some campaigns to play too, it's just augury is not module i see myself replaying often just to try different dress.
Of curse it will work. Any game played non-ironman can be beaten assuming you play well enough to create the opportunity. It is only a matter of number of reloads. With 100% melee it would be beyond realistic or even mathematical possibility but with two casters and competent play - i am sure it's a matter of patience.
But I am, I was just asking if you agreed on my definition of non heavy caster party.
Also, you're both wrong from my perspective, beyond the first playthrough, which induced a lot of reloads during the sharkman's druid fight, then the spider queen and a few others requiring way less reloads but reloads nonetheless (salamander, gobs, Pizarra) I don't reload much, that's why I tried and arguably suceeded an Iron man run.
Arguably because if I didn't lose, I didn't win either due to a crash after the castle's first dragon fight.
Some fights could still fuck you over, I guess, Salamander comes to mind or spiders from the cave if you take it on too early.
Sword snare can be tough but soon enough, you'll know how to get through it without reloads.
Just give the skewer sword to your higher THC fighter and put him in front so he can reach the crones fast, first turn even, psionic STR dialog buff also helps. Then, focus on the crones and disable the harpy.
I didn't lose to the Spider Queen in ages.
You just have to prepare while fighting the first spider wave and you can even preemptively build walls with the friendly spiders to protect your casters.
So, there's only 3 fights which can fuck you over.
Salamander (forge), First inner walls fight in the castle and chapter's 3 Pizarra but mostly the Salamander because you can win the other two even when you lose the initiative rolls.
With less casters, you'll require one or two fighters with good reach weapons and rely even more on fighting maneuvers.
Pal
Sorc
Warlock
Storm Warrior
Ranger
Rogue
Bard
Bishop
Top four from companions
Obv been done with 6 Kobold Wizards so pure casters are something that can work, but every class gets abilities that scale to the mid/endgame and that's when the items kick in too.
Depending on your build, the bard, even if it's an hybrid, might be a dedicated caster so it's a 3.5 / 4 caster party Sorc, Warlock, bishop and the bard), the only time I used a bard, he used a reach weapon but barely fought, mostly silencing, buffing and later using aria of chaos.
Well thats the issue. Yeah it feasible, just reload until your 2 casters get better initiatives and press the I win button is not really good.
In the end the encounter of KotC2 is fun, but start from middle of the game it largely become whose caster get better initiatives , the issue Reinhardt posted. Having lower amount of caster just basically move the probability of you rolling the I win button to be lower but doesn't really change the fundamental issue when replaying the game as you have to do the win initiatives -> press win button spells.
No you don't!
It's harder when you don't win the initiative, I give you that but never impossible.
Of course, if you take initiative feats and use initiative equipment, you rarely lose initiative and when you do during tough fights (like ch3 Pizarra) you'll just have to use raise dead scrolls and step up your game.
What equipment for bard for archmage difficulty? It might be hard to make melee viable since you need to max charisma and pump con/int/dex for initiative so bow maybe? But since there seems to be quite many useful bard feats you probably dont have enough spare feats to get most of those.
so just shield + attribute stick?
Melee bard works as long as your bard isn't your front-line fighter, use him to protect your mages and give him a reach weapon.
Bow might work as well and there's some slaying arrows here and there so this + true seeing could work.
Still, a bard requires a lot of feats so I don't think you can spare any for martial feats.
^trying to summon elemental but game thinks I want flame strike. it fixes itself when I exit out caster window then reopen it, but man, that's annoying.
I assume you did you almost-finished-successfully IM run on full Archmage and using Ironman setting? The latter gives you 10% bonus to exp but that's not even near the increase difficulty of playing with only one credit. It's impressive, hats off.
Doesn't change my mind that high level dnd is in not worth it compared to low and mid level one though.
We can agree on this.
I'm not going to lie, it's fun to use prismatic spells on the enemies, even more when you store xp and overleveled the Spider Queen and chapter 4 but level 3-12 is what works the best for me as well, not sure about the upper limit but 15 is already too high.
So, if you prefer lower level d&d, Hearkenwold is what you need, Dorateen even reduced combat xp to slow down leveling progression.
We can agree on this.
I'm not going to lie, it's fun to use prismatic spells on the enemies, even more when you store xp and overleveled the Spider Queen and chapter 4 but level 3-12 is what works the best for me as well, not sure about the upper limit but 15 is already too high.
So, if you prefer lower level d&d, Hearkenwold is what you need, Dorateen even reduced combat xp to slow down leveling progression.
I think it's 12 or 14 due to magic - not the only reason but the most important one. Pure casters at level 15 have access to spells level 8 and that's where the really broken stuff that make non-casters semi useless begins. One may say it's already at spells 7 which leaves us with levels 12 or 14 as the upper level limit.
So basically i agree with you. I don't why i bothered to write this.
About low levels, level 1 and 2 are not that great either. Not many options and very random due to low hp. A single critical can kill (as in dead) a character at level 1 even from full life. Only level 1 spells, very few feats. From level 3 it all gets much better.
give Skewer Sword to Water Elemental - he moves twice as fast in Water and gets five-foot steps. I'm pretty sure I lost some EXP there due to killing Crones too fast before they could summon more Slimes tho.
Web the area where the Slimes spawn they aren't immune to Hampering (Water Elemental is!) and have lousy Reflex. Still don't have perfect plan for Harpy since she flies but she can be silenced unlike Crones.
Bard gets a lot of Bonus Feats and full BAB so can't afford not to do some fighting. And don't need Improved Song Feats for Songs that don't get much use. Reach could work but like to have home for a Heavy Shield. Really just need Point-Blank and Far Shot for most effective archery. Can melee close stuff, even if only setting up flanking early. Human + dumping INT can get Stats/Feats where they need to be to pew pew + Chaos. By Pizarra was using the Heal/encounter Scimitar and exclusively casting/shooting.
It's harder when you don't win the initiative, I give you that but never impossible.
Of course, if you take initiative feats and use initiative equipment, you rarely lose initiative and when you do during tough fights (like ch3 Pizarra) you'll just have to use raise dead scrolls and step up your game.
give Skewer Sword to Water Elemental - he moves twice as fast in Water and gets five-foot steps. I'm pretty sure I lost some EXP there due to killing Crones too fast before they could summon more Slimes tho.
Web the area where the Slimes spawn they aren't immune to Hampering (Water Elemental is!) and have lousy Reflex. Still don't have perfect plan for Harpy since she flies but she can be silenced unlike Crones.
Interesting but I prefer Jorad, with rage, he has very high chances to trigger skewer and last time i picked him, he could reach the eastern crone on his first turn (just put him on the top left spot in the formation panel).
Also, rage bonus stacks with everything...
The harpy can be dealt with with sleep/hypnotic pattern, I think chances are between 50 and 60+%, which is alright.
Also cannot downgrade to last patch. Happens to other people also.
