KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Yosharian]

There is little difference in that case. What difficulties do mostly is changing long term balance, number of feats, having to pay for levelling, etc... Things that make the game easier/harder because your party becomes stronger or weaker. The change in combat itself are the initiative penalty for the AI on Normal and Hard and higher dying threshold - on per level basis on Normal. Let's forget easy. The initiative plays a big role, the bigger the stronger enemy, especially casters get but only Archmage by default doesn't have the penalty for AI. Btw a 25% penalty doesn't guarantee anything, just makes it much more likely.

This isn't true because I have seen a video of someone playing on Normal difficulty and he is hitting / succeeding on spells far more easily than I was. Normal applies a level drain to enemies which makes them weaker, so it doesn't just change long-term difficulty.

 

[plem]

There is a "Zen Archery" feat though, WIS replaces DEX as the stat to give the attack bonus. Included in Hunting domain. Nice for a cleric archer, i would say, and affects ranged touch spells too.

it's also great on a Druid, especially if you take either the Fire sphere for empowered Produce Flame or Earth sphere for empowered Magic Stone

 

[Serus]

There is little difference in that case. What difficulties do mostly is changing long term balance, number of feats, having to pay for levelling, etc... Things that make the game easier/harder because your party becomes stronger or weaker. The change in combat itself are the initiative penalty for the AI on Normal and Hard and higher dying threshold - on per level basis on Normal. Let's forget easy. The initiative plays a big role, the bigger the stronger enemy, especially casters get but only Archmage by default doesn't have the penalty for AI. Btw a 25% penalty doesn't guarantee anything, just makes it much more likely.

This isn't true because I have seen a video of someone playing on Normal difficulty and he is hitting / succeeding on spells far more easily than I was. Normal applies a level drain to enemies which makes them weaker, so it doesn't just change long-term difficulty.

Normal doesn't apply any "level drain" automatically. Level drain is a rare effect from, mostly, higher level spells and a high level, rarely used, weapon enchantment. This is what normal difficulty modifies. The change only affects spells resistance and armour class - at least according to help files. This means that if the video wasn't showing mid game at least AND the players wasn't spamming the effect AND the enemy had SR (in case of spells) to begin with - the option didn't do squat - at least to my knowledge. Also See "observer bias".

So yes, there is a difference between Normal and Hard in combat but it isn't a big one and not early in game at all. The death threshold change is, probably, the bigger one of the two between normal and hard difficulties. The big difference in combat is between normal/hard vs Archmage, namely the initiative.

 

[Serus]

The village is a better tutorial but when you're done with the main game, maybe after playing it twice and after playing Hearkenwold, the tutorial is a nice short module.

Ok, I'm going :

• Kobold Red Wiz
• Human Black Wiz
• Elf Psion
• Drake Fighter
• Mantis Rogue
• Centaur DK

For my Archmage (no gold and more feats) Ironman run.
Probably with fire druid and pizarra or the monk if he's good enough.

I barely used necro spells so far, aside from malison on some tough enemies so i'll try to fix that. I'll miss the Barbarian, he's fucking good early on.

I was just thinking about trying a prismatic wall for the Spider Queen fight since I've never tried it.
Silence + Prismatic wall + fighters behind her and some summons on the other side, probably malison once she spawns, ectoplasmic cocoon worked once so it might work again and there's also the guaranteed 1 level drain aoe (probably if not resisted) which might remove her some spells.

What about healing? Only Psion in main team is capable of healing. Everything else from potions scrolls? You can't even read cleric/druid scrolls. I think you need the one of the two companion druids - or at least the elemental bodyguard of the "good" one. But then i'm a noob in this game compared to you.
Also necro spells on lower levels are mostly crap.

 

[PaquoCastor]

Using v1.29, I was only able to beat the battle on very hard after setting reduced initiative 25%. No one was even unconscious at the end! The negative levels make the fighter less of a problem, that's true. Only him and one of the mummies has that effect, from what I saw in the editor. Either way, it's still one of the best battles I've ever played.

 

[anvi]

I think I'm on the final fight but it keeps crashing -.- I'll try again tomorrow, it's fun though.

 

[Reinhardt]

looked at nexus - it's almost empty. way too early for modules but no one even makes tokens. Pierre really messed launch with starting price. pity.

 

[Fireblade]

Normal doesn't apply any "level drain" automatically. Level drain is a rare effect from, mostly, higher level spells and a high level, rarely used, weapon enchantment. This is what normal difficulty modifies. The change only affects spells resistance and armour class - at least according to help files. This means that if the video wasn't showing mid game at least AND the players wasn't spamming the effect AND the enemy had SR (in case of spells) to begin with - the option didn't do squat - at least to my knowledge. Also See "observer bias".

So yes, there is a difference between Normal and Hard in combat but it isn't a big one and not early in game at all. The death threshold change is, probably, the bigger one of the two between normal and hard difficulties. The big difference in combat is between normal/hard vs Archmage, namely the initiative.

The in-game help says "Negative levels may be assigned to certain opponents, depending on the Difficulty level. Negative levels resulting from the difficulty setting apply a penalty to Armour Class and Spell Resistance, as well as the standard effects of negative levels detailed below". Then it goes on to list Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Hit Points, and Effective Level (affecting spellcasting/psionic powers).

edit: also just pulled up a normal mode save-game I have in chapter 4, got into a fight, examined a Black Wizard, and in the Effects tab it says "Condition: Reduced Difficulty Negative Levels +2". A Warlock in this fight has it, too. Most of the enemies don't though.

 

[Yosharian]

Normal doesn't apply any "level drain" automatically. Level drain is a rare effect from, mostly, higher level spells and a high level, rarely used, weapon enchantment. This is what normal difficulty modifies.

Spoiler

 

[Yosharian]

Using v1.29, I was only able to beat the battle on very hard after setting reduced initiative 25%. No one was even unconscious at the end! The negative levels make the fighter less of a problem, that's true. Only him and one of the mummies has that effect, from what I saw in the editor. Either way, it's still one of the best battles I've ever played.

So you admit that the negative level effect makes the fight easier, and having defeated the encounter before and knowing exactly what to do, you were able to defeat it again on the higher difficulty!

Real big brain moments in this thread

 

[Yosharian]

Normal doesn't apply any "level drain" automatically. Level drain is a rare effect from, mostly, higher level spells and a high level, rarely used, weapon enchantment. This is what normal difficulty modifies. The change only affects spells resistance and armour class - at least according to help files. This means that if the video wasn't showing mid game at least AND the players wasn't spamming the effect AND the enemy had SR (in case of spells) to begin with - the option didn't do squat - at least to my knowledge. Also See "observer bias".

So yes, there is a difference between Normal and Hard in combat but it isn't a big one and not early in game at all. The death threshold change is, probably, the bigger one of the two between normal and hard difficulties. The big difference in combat is between normal/hard vs Archmage, namely the initiative.

The in-game help says "Negative levels may be assigned to certain opponents, depending on the Difficulty level. Negative levels resulting from the difficulty setting apply a penalty to Armour Class and Spell Resistance, as well as the standard effects of negative levels detailed below". Then it goes on to list Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Hit Points, and Effective Level (affecting spellcasting/psionic powers).

Yes and it does make a big difference to the fight.

Anyway my problem isn't with the way the fight is designed, exactly, it's with the number tuning for an early fight in what is meant to be a tutorial module, and also the way the grids are displayed to the player is super frustrating and not at all comparable to the solid design of KOTC1.

I had an issue last night in later fights where I couldn't quite position my fighter correctly so that he could get cleave followups, it seemed like he was in range because he is adjacent, but the game nopes out of it and says no actually he's two squares away, sorry.

Regardless, I am totally addicted and cannot play anything else right now

 

[Fireblade]

Given all the positioning problems you've mentioned...are you using sprites, or tokens? I ended up switching to tokens because it made positioning so much easier, it's like a completely different world. Also when using tokens you can see each unit's health on the token, and you can turn on green/red circles around each token for friendly/hostile.

 

[Sacibengala]

Finally bit the bullet. Month changed, got some to spare, I hope it's worth it. We'll see...

Matt uploaded a long video playthrough, by the way, don't know if it was posted here before.
https://youtu.be/0t6b8Ae6cWQ

 

[Achiman]

I'm up to the spider queen fight and my will to push on is being eroded at just how aids having 0 campfires is in this main sewer. I have found one, which was right after you literally kill 60 mobs waiting for you after your first two steps from the crones.
When you need to cast spells to have a chance at all and there is a fight every 10 metres it'gets a bit old.
There is maybe... just maybe a bit too much combat or the balance with resting needs a tweak imo. Feels like the game cheeses you on some of the rolls as well, the RNGesus for dispelling or avoiding petrification etc is sus it feels.

 

[Darth Roxor]

i hope you realise there are consoomables that can refresh your spell slots and from what i remember they are plenty plentiful

 

[Yosharian]

Given all the positioning problems you've mentioned...are you using sprites, or tokens? I ended up switching to tokens because it made positioning so much easier, it's like a completely different world. Also when using tokens you can see each unit's health on the token, and you can turn on green/red circles around each token for friendly/hostile.

Ahh yeah I might try that, I do like the effect of having sprites though to be fair

 

[Fireblade]

Given all the positioning problems you've mentioned...are you using sprites, or tokens? I ended up switching to tokens because it made positioning so much easier, it's like a completely different world. Also when using tokens you can see each unit's health on the token, and you can turn on green/red circles around each token for friendly/hostile.

Ahh yeah I might try that, I do like the effect of having sprites though to be fair

Give it a try in a few combats, and you may never go back. Also keep in mind you can modify the token that's used for each of your characters at any time (click on their portrait on the char sheet). Set recognizable ones so you know who's where at a glance, that will be a big improvement over the sprites too. Alt+T toggles between the two modes if you don't already know that.

 

[Achiman]

i hope you realise there are consoomables that can refresh your spell slots and from what i remember they are plenty plentiful

Yeah, i probably (definitely) fucked up by not buying them all from teh ratmen when I had the chance. A convenient cave collapse means I can't go back. Oh well... save scumming and RNGesus it is.

 

[Yosharian]

Why the hell does this Gareth chap have 3 domain powers?

 

[Yosharian]

Any thoughts on what the best summoning domain power is?

Spoiler

Seems like the Undead immunities from the ghoul warrior would be pretty sick, but the inevitable's DR could be somewhat useful too I guess.

 

[Fireblade]

Six attacks could be a big benefit at times. Lots of mirror images to burn through in this game.

 

[Trash Player]

bards are a weird in-between of martials, rogues and casters. they get enough feats and weapon proficiencies to be useful in combat but not enough to come close to a real martial. their songs are really useful though, not only the ones that buff but the offensive ones as well. pipes of pain and heavenly song are as good as some control spells, and arcane rhyme is great for magic-centric parties.

Read the rules, man. Pierre removed the rogue out of bard. Full BAB and no rogue skill. Their extra skill is even Nature. They are not much worse than martials with no wade-in if built similarly.
The SLAs that check DC are not bad and come earlier but mind affecting effect isn't worth too much investment. Imo, building them as a martial with choice SLAs is better than going all in SLAs,
seeing the most scalable ability is Arcane Rhyme anyway.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah but I figure that a lot of the time it's going to end up succumbing to AOE stuff or maybe even getting charmed or whatever. I figured an Undead summon is pretty unique and could be immune to a lot of nasty stuff that enemies might throw at me. Plus, it still has two attacks and if any of them land it could paralyse the enemy.

 

[Yosharian]

bards are a weird in-between of martials, rogues and casters. they get enough feats and weapon proficiencies to be useful in combat but not enough to come close to a real martial. their songs are really useful though, not only the ones that buff but the offensive ones as well. pipes of pain and heavenly song are as good as some control spells, and arcane rhyme is great for magic-centric parties.

Read the rules, man. Pierre removed the rogue out of bard. Full BAB and no rogue skill. Their extra skill is even Nature. They are not much worse than martials with no wade-in if built similarly.
The SLAs that check DC are not bad and come earlier but mind affecting effect isn't worth too much investment. Imo, building them as a martial with choice SLAs is better than going all in SLAs,
seeing the most scalable ability is Arcane Rhyme anyway.

How would you build them though? Weapon finesse and rapier your way to some piddling damage? It just seems like it will be really awful.

I am disappointed that he has turned them into martials TBH, I am considering replacing mine with another Wizard, or perhaps a Sorcerer (though Pierre made them weird too), but I dunno I guess the songs are really useful

They seem like they will mostly be useful early game when the songs are quite potent and there is still some utility in being able to give martials small but effective bonuses. Lategame I think I'd rather just have another Wizard flinging around level 9 spells.

But even throughout the game, another Wizard is another source of potent crowd-control, buffs, etc, that are at least comparable to what the Bard brings? In absolute terms the Bard's DC-boosting song can't be replicated, but the presence of another caster flinging even more spells is probably at the very least as powerful as boosting everyone else's spells by +3.

 

[Serus]

Normal doesn't apply any "level drain" automatically. Level drain is a rare effect from, mostly, higher level spells and a high level, rarely used, weapon enchantment. This is what normal difficulty modifies. The change only affects spells resistance and armour class - at least according to help files. This means that if the video wasn't showing mid game at least AND the players wasn't spamming the effect AND the enemy had SR (in case of spells) to begin with - the option didn't do squat - at least to my knowledge. Also See "observer bias".

So yes, there is a difference between Normal and Hard in combat but it isn't a big one and not early in game at all. The death threshold change is, probably, the bigger one of the two between normal and hard difficulties. The big difference in combat is between normal/hard vs Archmage, namely the initiative.

The in-game help says "Negative levels may be assigned to certain opponents, depending on the Difficulty level. Negative levels resulting from the difficulty setting apply a penalty to Armour Class and Spell Resistance, as well as the standard effects of negative levels detailed below". Then it goes on to list Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Hit Points, and Effective Level (affecting spellcasting/psionic powers).

edit: also just pulled up a normal mode save-game I have in chapter 4, got into a fight, examined a Black Wizard, and in the Effects tab it says "Condition: Reduced Difficulty Negative Levels +2". A Warlock in this fight has it, too. Most of the enemies don't though.

Yeah, I checked it as well and i have it on some enemies enemies but not on most. I simply haven't noticed the effect. That was what made me think that it works only with existing negative levels. Maybe that was one of reasons the game felt too easy somehow - at least when you fight those enemies that have it.
How many levels are we talkig about? I only found it at one battle in Chapter 2 and it was 2 levels - which isn't huge but later in game that might be more?

I am now confused completely. What is the logic in this? And why is it not mentioned in the help that only some enemies have it and not others then? Pierre...

I'm sorry if I confused anyone else who read my post. And Yosharian, you were right.

Anyway i don't like it at all as an option - even less its execution. The 25% less initiative i like, it works across the board (i think) and is easier to quantify the effects. The increased death threshold has merits and logic to it as well. But this... meh

Pierre...