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Legends of Amberland II: The Song of Trees

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
416
The Song of Trees. Bloody hell, this is going to be about elves, isn't it.
Why elves? It could also be about songs or bards or trees :)

Note: Nope, it's not about elves :)

Keep this up for the next 30 years and you could be the next Jeff Vogel!
Less than 30. Been an indie dev for 17 years now, so only 13 years to go :D
 

CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,625
I'd just copy exactly what's in M&M 3-4-5, it works in these games with the same premise so it'll work here, for example :

- a cave where the walls fall in the corners as you move around, revealing a eventually larger and larger "arena", this works great in these games
- need to cast a levitate spell and walk of water spell, don't hesitate to double hint that you need those if you feel like it
- you can have an area with diverse NPCs saying something and you need to make something of it, which can for example be a prison where the various prisoners heard some discussions from guards about a code ("first digit is odd" "second digit is lower than first" "second digit is twice the third one" "fourth digit is the highest one" "sum of the digits is the smallest number using two digits").
- big cups, you need to drink them all to open a door but you get sick when doing so anyway
- I can't remember if you have fountains to temporary raise each attribute (spell is fine too anyway), if you do then an attribute test for each, possibly to pay homage to a statue for personal experience,
- you can also have a sword to take with high strength or a glass to break with high strength
- arrows you need to turn so that they all point to a central point
- dungeon with an elevator where you're looking keywords to the different floors
- one place can have cursed fountains but one is blessed, with a hint that they're cursed when you enter and the hint one is not somewhere else
- one dungeon where you need to place 4 orbs to access the main area, the orbs can be either there or spread over the world, in which case someone must give you the information of where each is (both types are satisfying, one dungeon where you do 4 quarters to reach the end is cool)
- one lever puzzle where each lever activates (open if it's closed, close if it's opened) two doors, might also be two wall parts
- one cursed place where taking golds make you lose gold instead
- the thrones where only the right character could sit to gain experience were cool too
- some illusionary walls, I think these you can have from a few to a lot, either way can be cool
- some sparse spinners near the very end of the game
- if you have keys to enter various areas, then you'd better double hint the location of the keys, that's how these games do it
- in the same vein riddles with the word to answer available in the game somewhere is also the way these games do it ; I doubt the game was the first time someone said "The more of it, the less you see." so I would be concerned about it fitting the fantasy theme much more than about trying to come with some super unique one which was never done, if a couple of ones I would definitely mix some where the answer is some actual name from the game and some more general but fantasy ones
- one word to enter a secret cave, written on a paper in a prison or something like that
- statues you need to pay homage to in the right order (for example with colors and RBGPO, something like that), but drums to hit might be more cool than statues in fact
- If you want coded messages, some possibilities are : stuck the words and/or reverse the letters, need to read from top to bottom then left to right instead of left to right then top to bottom, add a word between each two words, just mix the letters of each word, separate the vowels and consonants
- ...

I think these things fit the legacy, premise, difficulty and target of the game, they're all meant to enhance the pace rather than breaking it.
 

Nikanuur

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
1,758
Location
Ngranek
Correct me if I am wrong, but I came to understand that there is little to none of what is generally considered an exploration:
hidden staches, illusionary walls, areas reachable only if side quests are finished, puzzles at least to a degree of five plates to be pressed in a shape (at best described on 4 out of 5 parchments describing the failed attempt of the long-deceased dungeon-crawling predecessor), places to use special items, finding those items, chests unreachable at first only to find out..., etc.
In Amberland 1.
It seems there was an intent, so I must respect that. Then again, the wording "... ... to explore" made me sad because of the above-mentioned. Evidently, there are many people who like the game. I am happy for your success, even though it's not my thing. But please, be more careful about advertising correctly, or better yet, fulfill the advertised term exploration in the sequel. The latter would actually be my suggestion, as many people here have mentioned too.
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,422
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
The over-world exploration is in fact very good, with some of the things mentioned above, including inaccessible areas that need to be unlocked, sea passages requiring to obtain not one, but two types of boats. And lots of quirky NPCs to be found.

It is the dungeon exploration that was a little thin.
 

Nikanuur

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
1,758
Location
Ngranek
The over-world exploration is in fact very good, with some of the things mentioned above, including inaccessible areas that need to be unlocked, sea passages requiring to obtain not one, but two types of boats. And lots of quirky NPCs to be found.

It is the dungeon exploration that was a little thin.
In that case, I humbly step aside.
 

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
416
Will you implement any new mechanics like traps and illusions?
Yes, illusionary walls are implemented already.

I'd just copy exactly what's in M&M 3-4-5, it works in these games with the same premise so it'll work here, for example :
Hmm, interesting ideas... if you have more, drop them my way :)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I came to understand that there is little to none of what is generally considered an exploration:
In addition to what others said, a few more details.

The core of the game is exploration, from a design point of view it's prioritized. So, definitely exploration is one of the strongest points of the game.

The feedback on the first Amberland was that the overworld (outdoors) is awesome while indoors meh or average (surprisingly some people said it was very good, but it's a minority and I would not agree with that statement :D). In the sequel I decided to address this from two angles.
1) Make you spend more time outdoors (the overworld is bigger) and make it even more fun (new fountains mechanic, environmental zones, etc).
2) Improve dungeons by adding more elements (doors locked by keys, illusionary walls, etc) and redesigning existing features (traps made much more meaningful). In addition another approach to designing those will be used (in the first Amberland the focus was to reduce backtracking, in the sequel I will care more about those being simply interesting at the expense of being less convenient to traverse).

Updated trailer:
Yup, just made an official trailer :) Here is the announcement: https://www.silverlemurgames.com/2023/05/25/trailer-for-legends-of-amberland-ii-available/
 

Black_Willow

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
1,866,286
Location
Borderline
Chris Koźmik
Firstly: the first game was very good and oddly addictive, I had much fun with it.

For feedback/request:
Would it be possible to get a paladin kind of class, a warrior with some limited support/healing spellcasting? Yeah, I know there's bard, but something more of a "holy knight" archetype? Or maybe just remove the old "additional damage to spellcasters" ability from champion class and give limited spellcasting instead (and a one-two unique spells, may be available only on higher levels, eg. buff boosting party's damage against certain kinds of enemies, like battlesmith has his unique spell). IMO champion was kinda weak in comparison to ex. barbarian or knight.
 

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
416

I'd just copy exactly what's in M&M 3-4-5, it works in these games with the same premise so it'll work here, for example :
Hmm, interesting ideas... if you have more, drop them my way :)

Just play MM3-5 and make a general copy of it all.

See below.

He can't beat M&M in the art department, so just ripping off the gameplay would make it a second rate M&M. Better to be its own thing

Actually, I use a mix of those two approaches :)
I'm willing to shamelessly borrow things from the games of the '90s era, I loved those games, that's why I make those. If something worked back then (and assuming it still works), why not using it again.
That being said, it applies to the spirit/mood only, there are new things that were invented in the meantime and there are some obvious issues of those old games, there is no point carrying over those. Modern inventions, as long as those fit the grand picture, are to be used instead of the anachronisms (the biggest example is inventory system, and introduction of encumbrance system).

So, I would say I agree with both of you but also disagree with both of you at the same time :D


I would say, my grand idea is to make a game that is in the spirit of what you REMEMBER playing, not how those games ACTUALLY were back then. Which is a subtle but important difference.
 

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
416
It would be nice if their were town zones like in mm3-5
Towns are full locations in LoA II.

Chris Koźmik
Firstly: the first game was very good and oddly addictive, I had much fun with it.

For feedback/request:
Would it be possible to get a paladin kind of class, a warrior with some limited support/healing spellcasting? Yeah, I know there's bard, but something more of a "holy knight" archetype? Or maybe just remove the old "additional damage to spellcasters" ability from champion class and give limited spellcasting instead (and a one-two unique spells, may be available only on higher levels, eg. buff boosting party's damage against certain kinds of enemies, like battlesmith has his unique spell). IMO champion was kinda weak in comparison to ex. barbarian or knight.
Can you write more about it so I can understand it better? What exactly you desire? Like why no Ranger? Or Mage Knight?

Note: Champion is going to be redesigned this way or another, there is a general consensus it was too weak (many people requested it).
 

Black_Willow

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
1,866,286
Location
Borderline
It would be nice if their were town zones like in mm3-5
Towns are full locations in LoA II.

Chris Koźmik
Firstly: the first game was very good and oddly addictive, I had much fun with it.

For feedback/request:
Would it be possible to get a paladin kind of class, a warrior with some limited support/healing spellcasting? Yeah, I know there's bard, but something more of a "holy knight" archetype? Or maybe just remove the old "additional damage to spellcasters" ability from champion class and give limited spellcasting instead (and a one-two unique spells, may be available only on higher levels, eg. buff boosting party's damage against certain kinds of enemies, like battlesmith has his unique spell). IMO champion was kinda weak in comparison to ex. barbarian or knight.
Can you write more about it so I can understand it better? What exactly you desire? Like why no Ranger? Or Mage Knight?

Note: Champion is going to be redesigned this way or another, there is a general consensus it was too weak (many people requested it).
Ranger and Mage Knight are somewhat different archetypes, and AFAIR focused more on offensive, than supportive magic. What I would prefer to have as a paladin/redesigned champion would be a class numerically (encumbrance, health, mana, damage multiplayer) close to Mage Knight, but with some healing/protective/negative status lifting magic instead of fireballs.
Such class would be IMO pretty useful, since apart from doing standard melee stuff, it would be also able to support the dedicated healers and save squishy party members in tougher fights.
 
Last edited:

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
416
Demo for Legends of Amberland II: The Song of Trees is out!

Announcement: https://www.silverlemurgames.com/2023/06/07/legends-of-amberland-ii-demo-is-out/

Demo (Steam): https://store.steampowered.com/app/2110840/Legends_of_Amberland_II_The_Song_of_Trees/

Legends of Amberland II demo is out!​



Demo for the sequel to Legends of Amberland is available on Steam!

Demo for Legends of Amberland II: The Song of Trees is available on Steam starting today. It features the first part of the storyline including the starting continent with the surrounding islands, multiple towns, castles, towers, dungeons, caves and several overland biomes. Our second journey to Amberland also introduces new mechanics and new items. Enjoy and make sure to wishlist!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2110840/Legends_of_Amberland_II_The_Song_of_Trees/
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,622
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Demo for Legends of Amberland II: The Song of Trees is out!

Announcement: https://www.silverlemurgames.com/2023/06/07/legends-of-amberland-ii-demo-is-out/

Demo (Steam): https://store.steampowered.com/app/2110840/Legends_of_Amberland_II_The_Song_of_Trees/

Legends of Amberland II demo is out!​



Demo for the sequel to Legends of Amberland is available on Steam!

Demo for Legends of Amberland II: The Song of Trees is available on Steam starting today. It features the first part of the storyline including the starting continent with the surrounding islands, multiple towns, castles, towers, dungeons, caves and several overland biomes. Our second journey to Amberland also introduces new mechanics and new items. Enjoy and make sure to wishlist!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2110840/Legends_of_Amberland_II_The_Song_of_Trees/

I assume the game will participate on Steam Next Fest in two weeks?
 

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
416
Demo for Legends of Amberland II: The Song of Trees is out!

Announcement: https://www.silverlemurgames.com/2023/06/07/legends-of-amberland-ii-demo-is-out/

Demo (Steam): https://store.steampowered.com/app/2110840/Legends_of_Amberland_II_The_Song_of_Trees/

Legends of Amberland II demo is out!​



Demo for the sequel to Legends of Amberland is available on Steam!

Demo for Legends of Amberland II: The Song of Trees is available on Steam starting today. It features the first part of the storyline including the starting continent with the surrounding islands, multiple towns, castles, towers, dungeons, caves and several overland biomes. Our second journey to Amberland also introduces new mechanics and new items. Enjoy and make sure to wishlist!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2110840/Legends_of_Amberland_II_The_Song_of_Trees/

I assume the game will participate on Steam Next Fest in two weeks?
Yes.
 

Jermu

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,644
Nza00U0.png

can you see anywhere how much arcane is needed to cast specific spells?
 

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
416
can you see anywhere how much arcane is needed to cast specific spells?
Mouse over the "5 pips" just below the icon.

BTW, maybe this information should be doubled somewhere else as well? Like on the right side spell description? (but note that the full stuff from the tooltips would not fit anywhere, because it takes a full screen on some spells...)
 

Jermu

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,644
for me it would make sense that you see arcane requirement + mp without hovering but its not obviously a big deal

for example like this same way its written after character name

pTT5dUG.png
 

Chris Koźmik

Silver Lemur Games
Developer
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
416
for me it would make sense that you see arcane requirement + mp without hovering but its not obviously a big deal
The thing is, there are 5 Arcane requirements (for 5 Spell Mastery levels)... I can not list all of them in that place (could only the first but... overall the lowest (Mastery Level 1) Arcane requirement is not that useful information in the game because you typically strive to reach a higher Arcane than minimum before you want to use that spell extensively).
 

Jermu

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,644
in that case its probably not worth it to add unless it is possible to make arcane requirement number change after spell mastery level. but Im just a retarded consumer so Im not qualified to guess how easy something like that is to implement :lol:
 

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