[LP CYOA] 傳

[asxetos]

Flopping back to A2 then (was A1).

 

[Absinthe]

New voting tally:

Spoiler

Kz3r0 B
Kipeci A1
The Brazilian Slaughter B>A2
ERYFKRAD A1
Akkudakku A2
Smashing Axe A2>B
profreshinal B
Azira A2>A1
asxetos A2
XenomorphII B
LWC1996 A1
Jester A2
Esquilax A1
Baltika9 B
Rex Feral B>A2
Nevill B>A1
Elfberserker B
Tigranes A1>B
ChumBucket A2>A1
Kashmir Slippers B
Tribute A2
Fangshi B
Absinthe A2
Grimgravy A2>B
tropic A2
Kayerts A1
Sunnmøring C>A1
ScubaV A2>A1
m4davis B
Random Word A2
archaen A2
Ganymede B
Zero Credibility B Abstain

A1 - 6
A2 - 13
B - 12
C - 1 (with conditional flop to A1)

After C and A1 flops:
A1 - 6
A2 - 13
B - 13

 

[Kz3r0]

Addendum to my vote: A1>A2, I just don't want B to win. That is the cowards way out, and not a good representation of Man Tiger Pig. Any Pugilist worth his salt would jump at the chance to test his mettle against the best the Shaolin Temple has to offer.

The problem is that we are depending on Xuxian not only our skills.

 

[Absinthe]

Zero Credibility, we have decided on A2. Are you willing to flop to A2 now?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Zero Credibility, we have decided on A2. Are you willing to flop to A2 now?

It's in the majority, will ya take a break?

 

[Absinthe]

Post-flop, B wins and Xuxian becomes a cripple. I'd rather have A2 win so that Xuxian lives, we can get Xuxian's technique, and we get a boost to Shaolin rep.

 

[Baltika9]

Flopping to a solid B to retain blaming rights and because I think A2 is the wrong answer.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Well is B really an automatic failure for the guy? The best argument I heard for that is that one of the A choices leads to failure and we will probably not fail, so alone he has no chance. And have I stated lately how much I dislike OOC arguments like that?

Last time I came in to put my vote at the end without bothering with discuss we ended up reloading again. And I'm still not sold on A. So, I'm I retracting my B vote and abstaining. There - now you can't blame me.

 

[Absinthe]

Zero Credibility:

We have in-character reasons why B will result in Xuxian losing.

“Didn’t you beat the Abbot before? Just go even more lightly on him this time around,” you whisper.

“I am pretty sure he was holding back at the time,” mutters Xuxian nervously. “To take both him and the Eighteen Arhats on without injuring any of them… I don’t know if I can do that.”

Xuxian gives a polite indication here he doesn't think think he's capable of the feat.

You look at the sweating Xuxian. “What do you want to do?”

“I… I’ll give my best and fight, but I cannot expect you to risk your own wugong to assist me, Young Master Xu. Just the help you rendered in providing this chance for a trial by combat is sufficient. Asking you for more help at this point would be improper,” he says.

When we ask him what he wants to do, he reiterates twice over that he could not possibly ask us for help with these risks. Meaning, he wants our help, but he feels he cannot ask for it.

Lastly, treave recently said:

You can expect this trial to be the strictest they've ever conducted in correlation with the danger of the technique.

I won't say how exactly, but they (both Arhats and the Abbot) will be setting the bar pretty high and pushing the limits of what they're allowed to do. Remember, if he succeeds they're basically entrusting him with great power, so they will want to make sure he's responsible enough.

So we know Xuxian's challenge will be extra-hard.

It's pretty much a given at this stage that Xuxian will fail if we vote B.

 

[Rex Feral]

I'll be judging strictly in term of story development.

It's cooler for the story if we help xuxian face his fears (the abbot) while we pick off the unimportant guys highlighting his battle and inner strugle of controling his power rather than fight this battle for him. I judge this from a writer's point of view of how to make a cool story, IMO A1 seems destined to fail.

That is why I am going B>A2.

 

[Rex Feral]

And I also want to remind you that the abbot can probably jingzhongzhao at a level that we can't even scratch him without resorting to truly damaging techniques like the turtoise shell breaker.

 

[Absinthe]

Are you willing to flop to A2 then?

His story comes to a depressing end if we vote B.

 

[Azira]

Whichever choice wins, I'm thoroughly entertained right now.

 

[Nevill]

I'll be judging strictly in term of story development.

That reasoning wouldn't get us far. Xuxian has to face Arhats first and the Abbott later. From a narrative perspective, would it make sense for him to fail on his very first test?

 

[Kayerts]

Based on treave's quest compass (and his comment about rolling in the event of Xuxian's defeat), it seems probable that the game over in Ax is going to come from Xuxian fucking up, specifically by flipping out and killing someone. In particular, he's not going to lose simply by being outplayed; it's character-driven factors that will do him in.

The quest compass comments show Xuxian to be conflicted, and to clearly have a ton of emotions about the Abbot. He's far less conflicted about the formation. Where is he more likely to lose control?

My guess would be that A2 plays out with Xu Jing defeating the formation. In Round 2, Xuxian and the Abbot spar for a while, the Abbot eventually gains the upper hand, and Xuxian panicks and kills him. Monks descend, everybody dies.

 

[Absinthe]

I disagree, Kayerts. First off, Xuxian knows not to do that. He panicked against the abbot last time which was bad enough. This time he absolutely knows he cannot afford to do so. Furthermore:

You track down Xuxian’s path easily: the former Shaolin monk had been moving in a straightforward route from town to town, always towards the temple. It looks like he had been pursued all the way too, but he had constantly managed to defeat his pursuers, leaving them battered but not dead, and ready for another attempt.

Xuxian is not a killer.

Moreover, Xuxian is getting the toughest version of the trial yet. Odds are he cannot defeat either the 18 Bronze Arhats or the Abbot. But at least he doesn't need to beat the abbot. All he has to do is keep proving his restraint by not repeating his mistake and letting loose his power, and he will pass.

 

[Akkudakku]

Xuxian is not a killer.

Tufan prince would dissagree :D

 

[Rex Feral]

Don't get me wrong. I'm going with B not because it would be cool for the story but because of my own philoshopy of not taking unnecesary risks.

Also I remember when treave quoted some important info and Absinthe flopped to A1 and treave was all like:

Besides the formation probably is about not giving their opponent chance to strike back which would cause Xuxian a great deal of frustration possibly unleashing his power and killing some skinny monk because they are more fragile than the abbot. I don't think Xuxian can really kill the abbot. Hurt him, yes, but killing him seems a great task.

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah that flop didn't last once I thought about it some more. Anyway, I like the philosophy of "don't take unnecessary risks" too but the philosophy of "help a bro when he needs you" trumps that for me. And Xuxian desperately needs help. Plus I don't like the thought of Xu Jing bringing Xuxian here and offering to share the trial only to back out at the last moment because he doesn't like risking his own skin. It's not consistent with our character to me.

 

[Rex Feral]

You guys pressume that B is Xuxian getting insta crippled without taking in consideration that he might fail his challenge because of us, if we can't restrain himself and accidentaly hurt somebody. It would truly be ridiculous if he overcomes all odds and gets crippled because we insisted we help him out.

 

[Kayerts]

Abs, I'm also applying some metagaming thoughts here. My guess is that dramatic requirements dictate that the game-over, if it happens, happen in the second round. Moreover, we know that one of the A options is a game over. What sort of progression of events could result in the monks crippling Jing?

If Xuxian goes up against the formation and loses, then the monks don't have an especially strong reason to also cripple Xu Jing, right? He hasn't actually taken part in the trial by combat at that point. They could rule that he said he'd share in Xuxian's fate, and that that pledge is binding even if he doesn't get the chance to actually do the thing that would tie his fate to Xuxian's, but that's far weaker.

If you grant the premises that:

1.) The loss condition is triggered by something Xuxian does, and
2.) The loss condition, if it is triggered, will not happen until Xu Jing takes an action that strongly ties his fate to Xuxian's,

then it seems like the loss condition has to occur after Xu Jing fights. The only scenario with that progression is A2.

edit: Alternatively, Rex could be right, and B could result in a Xuxian acquittal. Which means that Xu Jing would be the one who fucks up in the Ax loss condition, and my entire analysis is wrong.

 

[Absinthe]

Rex Feral, I presume he'd lose in B because he's worried he's not up to it, he would really like our help, and we know his trial is going to be the most difficult version of the trial yet. I just don't think he's that good and neither does he.

Kayerts, I disagree. First, if Xuxian loses immediately, we've already made our pledge so we will also lose. That's the nature of the pledge. Whether or not we got to show off our stuff is irrelevant. You sink or swim together. So yes, Jing would get crippled.

And if you want to talk narrative, only Xuxian's victory needs a strong narrative. If he loses, then he gets to be a loser.

 

[Nevill]

Why is is that Xuxian needs to defeat 18 Arhats, but not the Abbott? Are there any special rules in place?

It was mentioned that beating them is not necessary to prove that one is capable of restraint, but why selectively apply this reasoning to one and not the other?

Also I remember when treave quoted some important info and Absinthe flopped to A1 and treave was all like:

Pretty sure it was because the reasons for flopping missed the mark entirely. :D

 

[treave]

If you guys are referring to this quote of mine:

It actually would, and this is an important point, but it's going to take someone with either a very strong lack of self preservation or immense willpower to win that way.

Yeah, it doesn't apply only to the Abbot fight.

And don't read too much into the smileys.

 

[Absinthe]

Aye, we are referring to that quote.