Mafia: Definitive Edition - remake of Mafia from Hangar 13

[Paul_cz]

I tried this mod. The game looks great, but the loading times are now ridiculous long. Like 10 minutes to load a mission.

That only happened to me on the first load. Every other load has been quick (usually around 30 sec)

 

[OctavianRomulus]

So is this actually worth it or is this one of those games where gameplay is just filler between cutscenes a la Witcher 3?

 

[schru]

So is this actually worth it or is this one of those games where gameplay is just filler between cutscenes a la Witcher 3?

The original is well worth playing. The combat presents a nice degree of challenge.

 

[Quillon]

what a shit, cutscene to cutscene, boring af & changed for some fucked up reason remake, even the devs of this were aware it was shit so they made a beeline to the end campaign, keeping the gameplay to a minimum but even with that I don't have the patience to finish this shit

 

[OctavianRomulus]

what a shit, cutscene to cutscene, boring af & changed for some fucked up reason remake, even the devs of this were aware it was shit so they made a beeline to the end campaign, keeping the gameplay to a minimum but even with that I don't have the patience to finish this shit

Glad I was patient for the crack then. I was looking for some entertainment during the weekend and looks like I found it.

 

[ADL]

I hope you guys are pirating this shit because it ain't worth paying for, as someone that paid for it.

 

[Multidirectional]

I hope you guys are pirating this shit because it ain't worth paying for, as someone that paid for it.

I think I'll "demo" it soon for a while at least, if only to drive around the city with new graphics.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Your post reminds me of a Fallout 3 fan trying to convince people how FO1 surely would've had first-person real-time combat if it wasn't hampered by the technical limitations of the time.

I mean... it's quite likely it would have. Whether modern gaming styles are decline or not, they are the modern gameplay styles.

There were first person games back then (hello Ultima Underworld?). They still chose to go the isometric route. Me thinks this argument is bullshit.

And lol at them changing the story for this shitmaster. Can't wait for the inevitable sequel where we are going to get Mafia: Last of Us 2 edition 'since you know that shit is coming, don't you. Not even going to pirate this fucking shit.

 

[Lemming42]

Decided to give this a try, despite being very disillusioned by watching a full playthrough earlier, because it's on piracy sites now Mafia 1 is still one of my favourite games and playing through a new interpretation of the levels is too big a deal not to try.

Here's my full opinion. No mention of what they've done to the story (they fucked it), just purely a gameplay-based review:

Spoiler

An Offer You Can't Refuse - fucking terrible now. In the original game, one car is after you and it's up to you to use the game's mechanics in any way you can to lose or wreck the car. In this, there's like five cars plus a three-car roadblock on the bridge. Don't worry, though - driving into the special markers on the minimap will cause your pursuers to magically wreck, in a cutscene where you have no control! Fantastic. And if there's no car behind you because you lost them long ago, the game will just teleport one in to get dramatically wrecked. Great.

Running Man - much better, because on Classic difficulty, the driving controls and physics really are great fun, better than the original game's IMO. So driving around the city chilling out is a good experience. The chase at the end is more or less faithful to the original, albeit with the gay parkour shit now. I like that you can still tell the lady that her date is waiting in the opposite alleyway.

Ordinary Routine - gameplay-wise, a faithful remake (story-wise, less said the better). First taste of combat, and I wasn't feeling it at all. The stealth takedowns are utterly ridiculous, but there's an unavoidable gunfight in the bar at the end and my first experience of the combat mechanics was largely positive. Not a fan of cover shooters but this is about as good as they get, honestly. The car chase at the end was fucking dogshit, you can't freely aim at the enemy car and, again, where the original game pitted you against a single opponent, Definitive Edition throws in two or three extra pursuers, just because I guess you'd get bored otherwise?

Fairplay - better than the original. The race is still brutally unfair (I had to turn the difficulty down from Classic just to beat it), but driving the racecar through the city is a lot more fun now, especially when it's been sabotaged and the engine is falling apart. Really pleasingly harsh time limits too.

Sarah - the melee combat is awful, so this one sucks. The original game's melee combat was clunky, but the start of the fight where three guys all start beating the shit out of you at once and you can't even move was wonderfully brutal. Here, Tommy wipes the floor with everyone by spamming shitty little attacks which the opponents have no hope of blocking. They also politely attack one at a time like Bruce Lee's enemies. And the boss fight, just lol.

Better Get Used To It - Complete disaster. More shit melee combat, and then the shootout which was very tense in the original turns into some insane cinematic Saving Private Ryan affair where a warehouse explodes, a sign explodes and electrocutes some guy, five guys rush out guns blazing, a guy with a shotgun kicks down a door in your face, total crap. The chase at the end is ace though because the rain actually has an effect on the car, you go sliding everywhere.

The Saint And The Sinner - two chapters merged. The hotel shootout is pure fun, easily the best combat in the game so far. The church is a little bit shit - the original was great as you're pinned down at the end of the church and have to take out your assailants one-by-one. In this, because everything's got to be melodramatic, it turns into a laughable chase through the church where guys are just popping out of nowhere while not-Tommy yells insane bloodlust threats at some kid.

A Trip To The Country - terrible. Ridiculous battle to Sam's barn and then a completely fucking stupid defence segment where guys line up to walk into the barn and get shot by you. Then the truck chase, christ almighty. As if the original's wasn't bad enough, now it goes on for like 6 fucking hours and has an armoured truck boss fight. Retarded.

Omerta - you can actually ghost through the whole airport without firing a shot! Better than the original, IMO. Not least because the original was one of the game's weak points in encounter design.

Visiting Rich People - comically easily stealth with your stupid Sam Fisher takedowns, and then a forced shootout after the safe. Boring.

Great Deal - not as fun as the original, which was one of the triumphs of the original combat system, but it's decent cover-shooting fun.

Bon Appetit - the restaurant part is better than the original, since there's now enemies covering the exits out back, which of course there would be. The Carlo part sucks.

Happy Birthday - trash. Less freedom than the original, and then an unavoidable massive gunfight to escape the boat.

You Lucky Bastard - trash compared to the original, but more solid cover shooting action at the harbour.

Creme de la Creme - absolutely fucking comical. What the fuck were they thinking with the plane chase.

Election Campaign - really liked what they did with this. The original didn't make much sense, now there's much more detail on who the prison people are, and not all of them attack you. Sort of like a weird haunted house vibe. The forced fight against the cops at the end brings it down.

Just for Relaxation - dogshit.

Moonlighting - pretty much on par with the original.

The Death of Art - solid reinterpretation of the art gallery battle.

So overall, it got some moments right, made a couple of good design choices, but on balance it's generally weaker than the original game. And again, this is just in gameplay/level design. The story loses completely to the original*, to the point where I don't know what they were thinking with some of the changes they made.

*except for Sarah, who is better now, and Election Campaign, which now actually makes sense

 

[Multidirectional]

I've finished "Happy Birthday" just now. Fucking hated how I'm supposed to go along set path through a forced popamole combat after killing the target. The premise of the original mission was more or less realistic. You shoot the guy, then escape after while everyone is losing their heads. No need to engage in any combat, just run straight to the boat. In this there's only one path to it and any other pathways are blocked by objects like furniture and shit. And it's same shit throughout every other mission. Every shootout must be turned up to 11 with way higher body counts now.

The end of "Trip to The Country" pissed me off so much. In original is just few cop cars chasing you, in this one it's fucking waves of them and then that ridiculous armored truck fight at the end too.

"Fairplay" was actually way harder than original for me on Classic, to the point where I gave up and temporarily lowered difficulty to Medium. Cornering in original was way easier, just release the gas and the car makes turns no problem. In this it just controls like shit no matter what and every opponent is faster than you.

"Omerta" was pretty much impossible to do shooting my may through it. Also while in original I could improvise by grabbing a car and running over some enemies in this you can't even get into any cars in airport despite there being plenty of them. They're just scenery decorations. Apparently sneaking through is the way they want you to do it, and it's laughably easy too, making the mission very short.

For the most part this takes a game that was based around realism and immersion as inspiration and makes everything edgier and more "epic".

 

[DalekFlay]

There were first person games back then (hello Ultima Underworld?). They still chose to go the isometric route. Me thinks this argument is bullshit.

I read his post more as denying "if the technology existed to make Fallout 3 then, they would have made Fallout 1 similar to Fallout 3." As in picking up the industry and moving it back 10 years. You're right though, I think he more meant they chose to make it isometric as opposed to something like Daggerfall, which is true enough.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I read his post more as denying "if the technology existed to make Fallout 3 then, they would have made Fallout 1 similar to Fallout 3." As in picking up the industry and moving it back 10 years. You're right though, I think he more meant they chose to make it isometric as opposed to something like Daggerfall, which is true enough.

TES Arena - 1994
Witchaven - 1995
Witchaven 2 and TES Daggerfall - 1996

The technology did exist, it's just that Tim Cain wanted to make RPG instead of an action game.

 

[karoliner]

The game is okay but there is way too much driving around.

 

[jebsmoker]

you realize there's far less driving around than there is in the original mafia, right? you can skip it too

 

[Don Peste]

Why does Tommy look like Bela Lugosi? Also everyone's eyes look dead.

 

[Jugashvili]

I finished playing this on Classic difficulty; it must have taken me 12 or so hours to complete it, and my feelings are mixed. When I first started playing, I was very pleasantly surprised -- the opening cutscene was very faithful to the original, suggesting that it was simply going to be a HD remake that otherwise maintained the underlying structure. As the game progressed, however, it became obvious that the new developers had ideas of their own and that, for better or for worse, they were bent on making Mafia an entirely different game. Little by little, subtle changes are shown to have far-reaching consequences, making Mafia: DE a completely different game than Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven, despite both of them having nearly identical plotlines.

One of the most basic changes is the game design philosophy, and this is apparent from the very first chase. The original game was predicated on building a sandbox and having it be a "third player" you had to contend with in order to succeed. You were free to explore and exploit the world as required to fulfill your goals, namely, in the first mission, to wreck or lose a car full of armed gangsters. How you went about doing this was entirely up to you. In the Definitive Edition, however, the devs have already laid out a path for you -- a series of markers that trigger scripted events in which the pursuing gangsters wreck their cars. Losing them becomes a matter of aligning the dots. Is any of the two better? I think they simply represent changing tastes -- the old game had a more subdued tone but more player freedom, the newer one sacrifices freedom for a more cinematic, Hollywood-esque feel. This becomes more and more apparent as the game progresses, as you are railroaded through a series of linear checkpoints and discouraged from applying creative solutions to problems. Want to jump over the railing behind you after assassinating the governor on the steamboat? Sorry, you can't, the devs have scheduled a gunfight among fireworks on the top deck and you simply have to go through it. The barn in a trip to the country is completely linear. In the end, the game's challenge simply lies in your ability to perform mechanical tasks and overcome scripted waves of enemies. Conversely, events have been made "epic" to suit zoomer tastes. Where there was one car, there now are five; where there were five enemies, there are now 20. Where there was a regular chase, there is now a boss fight against an armored car with improbable Hollywod stunts. I'm not saying the original was "realistic", but it was certainly more down-to-earth.

This leads me to another thing I have noticed about the Definitive Edition: it feels noticeably shorter than the original. Not the original was a long game, but a full playthrough would take more than 10-15 hours. I have noticed this is due to several factors. The first one is that they have, quite simply, cut a lot of content. There were hardly any side quests in the original, but you were encouraged to go hunt for rare cars after missions with the Lucas Bertone quests, and this had a positive impact on the game by unlocking rare and desirable cars for you in later missions. In this game, not only do you get all the cars there are to get in the main quest, you also have your pick of vehicles from the garage a la Mafia II, which eliminates most of the incentive behind learning how to steal cars. In the original, Ralphie taught you how to pick an increasing number of car locks, encouraging you to prowl the streets for one to steal -- this could, in turn, lead to its own emergent mini-story as you escaped from the police, wrecked the car in the process, stole another, etc. and basically gave meaning to the open world. In the DE, however, you leave the garage with the car of your choice and have little or no incentives to switch cars en route. In fact, the new system which spawns omniscient policemen and a bounty even when there are no witnesses actively discourages non-MQ shenanigans. As a result, there are many places you hardly ever visit, as there is no reason to visit them whatsoever. The old open world is there, but it has lost much of its raison d'etre.

Strangely enough, I have found the GPS, which is even present on Classic difficulty, to have a huge effect on the game. Tom is a cabbie, and a cabbie's job is to know how to navigate his city quickly and efficiently. In the original game, you acquired the skills of a cabbie organically -- you had a map and it was up to you to plan and design the best routes from point A to point B. As your knowledge of the city increased, you also learned about viable escape routes, place to lose your pursuers or make them crash, and relied less and less on the map and more and more on your gut feeling. By the end, you felt you had a working knowledge of how to navigate Lost Heaven. This doesn't happen in the DE. I had forgotten most of the layout of the city since I last played the original, and after 12 hours of DE I hardly felt I had learned anything about it. This is because the GPS puts your brain on autopilot -- your brain unconsciously pays more attention to following the line than to the streets themselves. I'm not surprised zoomers feel the driving is an unnecessary chore and want it to be skippable, because driving on autopilot is not engaging; it is a purely mechanical task.

When it comes to the story, several reviewers and the new devs themselves have crowed about how they have "improved" it. I don't think "improve" is the word, even though the voice acting is much more polished than in the original. For starters, there is a generation gap between the writers. The first one seems to have been written by fans of late-20th century gangster flicks like Goodfellas and The Godfather, whereas the Definitive Edition has been written by people raised on The Sopranos and Boardwalk Empire. Even though the structure of the story is the same, the tone has changed. The new Tommy Angelo is a strange bird. In the original, he was obviously meant to be Everyman -- someone you, the player, could identify with, a regular Joe who got roped into the world of organized crime. Nu-Tommy, however, speaks and behaves like a wiseguy from the start, chomping at the bit to attack Morello's bar. They have wanted to make him more "badass", and yet he is a lot more emotional than old Tom, tearing up when he accidentally blows up Sergio Morello's wife, preventing Paulie from shooting a waitress, etc. The other characters have also undergone changes that make them entirely different people. In the original, Paulie is a violent, slightly low-IQ thug in the original whose lack of moral inhibitions end up getting him killed. In the remake, he is a comic relief idiot who is deeply frustrated with his life. In the original, Sam is a cold-blooded killer who values loyalty to the don above friendship, whereas in the remake he is an opportunist with a yellow streak. Don Salieri has been "Sopranoized", for some absurd reason they made Frank talk like Lyric Suite, giving him a FOB Italian accent even though he's been in Burgeristan for over 40 years, and they added some bullshit story about a greyhound so soyboys could empathize with the heckin' doggerino (in order not to upset Reddit, shooting dogs is haram in the DE, btw). The reviewers rave about how Sarah is more relevant now, but they just made her a stock current year Stronk&Independent Wombyn who makes Tommy feel bad for murdering the guy who enacted women's suffrage. And for no reason at all and to no benefit for the gameplay, they made Salvatore only speak Italian, but instead sounding like a terrone he speaks like the voices in a Parla e Scrivi textbook.

I find the ending to be particularly bad. It's amazing how, despite largely following the script, they completely altered the tone -- instead of a gloating, self-sufficient Sam showering you with dirty money as he revels in having manipulated his long-time friend into falling into a trap, we see Sam scared and insecure, despite having somehow had the time to prepare a huge ambush in the gallery even though Tommy only told him to meet him there a few minutes ago (in the original, it was clear he had planned it from the start). The original ending finishes on an anxious note -- rather than beg for his life like in the DE, Sam taunts Tommy, predicting that he will end up killed all the same, revealing Frank and the whore's deaths in an unexpected revelation. Thus, while original Tommy lives in fear for the rest of his days, his distorted face a testament to the fact that crime doesn't pay, nu-Tommy dies smiling, like a philosopher, happy that his family is now "safe" (why? Salieri didn't hesitate to bump Frank's family, why wouldn't he bump his?).

Finally, I would like to add a note on the sound. I appreciate the fact that they wanted to add radio stations, but I felt I enjoyed this game's soundtrack a lot less than the original's. I can do without the fake broadcasts and cigarette advertisements written for zoomers who see the 20th century as a strange and exotic time ("lulz doctors recommended cigarettes they wuz strange amirite") and generic lessons on world history. I'll take some good Django Reinhardt over LARP radio anytime.

So much for the bad things, what about the good ones? Obviously, the graphics look amazing. They have obviously put a lot of work into the city and they were faithful to the spirit of the original by updating its appearance as the years go by (newer cars, liquor advertisements after prohibition). The streets feel crowded and alive. The addition of motorcycles is nice, but a wasted opportunity since you only really have to ride one once. The shooting mechanics are not bad, and the enemy makes a very aggressive use of fire and movement that prevents it from degenerating into static popamole shootouts. Cops reacting to more infractions, such as driving on sidewalks, is a welcome addition to keep you from getting too crazy if you want to go unnoticed. The game was an enjoyable experience overall. However, I do not think these strengths would have been enough to make this game a hit like the original was as there is simply not enough to keep you entertained to make this anything other than a 10-15 hour diversion worth playing out of curiosity or nostalgia.

 

[cretin]

was going to post a review, but Jugashvili covers everything I wanted to say and more.

Don't pay money for this. It's very pretty, but ultimately a hollow experience. I'm 80% through it and I'm thinking about just attempting to get o.g MAFIA working again.

Burgeristan for over 40 years, and they added some bullshit story about a greyhound so soyboys could empathize with the heckin' doggerino (in order not to upset Reddit, shooting dogs is haram in the DE, btw)

This was the most bemusing thing in the game for me. When i first heard in the game, i thought it was some clever allegory about a woman. Nope, turns out the story really is about a fucking dog. I dont think zoomers and redditards realize that a couple of wops who grew up in sicily in the late 1800s would not give a fuck about a dog, probably even ate them on occasion.

 

[cretin]

Also thought this was interesting, someone on youtube translated some of Daniel Vavra's commentary about the remake:

"The worst part about the remake is that I had an idea I wanted to convey, but now the idea is gone and the only thing that remains is just a plain shooter game, just because someone rewrote the script, just because someone didn't put his own idea in it, just like "family is my everything, I would do anything for them" is a sentence you will hear from every guy when he drinks 5 beers, there's nothing more to this... If I was a script doctor, I would tell him to rewrite the whole thing, purely from the professional view, the original script from 18 years ago works better, if someone rewrote the script and didn't understand what the idea was, and ignored the biggest ideas from the first Mafia game, then I'm pretty sad and disappointed because all the effort and ideas we put in the first game are gone and this will be the only thing people will play in the next 10 years. (because of the better graphics) It's missed opportunity, it's pity that most of the magic is gone, don't get me wrong, the graphics are gorgeous, the acting is great, but the philosophy of the realistic game is gone, everything that made the game a classic is gone, now it's just generic third person cover shooter, and there has been lot of these games in the last 15 years. I put a lot of effort, time and a whole part of my life to make this game work, and trust me, it was a hell."

 

[DalekFlay]

I almost bought this in the last Steam sale but I really don't like cover shooters much anymore and also it seems to run like shit on mid-range hardware. Maybe in a few years I'll get it for $5 and see what it's about, like I did Mafia 3.

 

[ADL]

Also thought this was interesting, someone on youtube translated some of Daniel Vavra's commentary about the remake:

"The worst part about the remake is that I had an idea I wanted to convey, but now the idea is gone and the only thing that remains is just a plain shooter game, just because someone rewrote the script, just because someone didn't put his own idea in it, just like "family is my everything, I would do anything for them" is a sentence you will hear from every guy when he drinks 5 beers, there's nothing more to this... If I was a script doctor, I would tell him to rewrite the whole thing, purely from the professional view, the original script from 18 years ago works better, if someone rewrote the script and didn't understand what the idea was, and ignored the biggest ideas from the first Mafia game, then I'm pretty sad and disappointed because all the effort and ideas we put in the first game are gone and this will be the only thing people will play in the next 10 years. (because of the better graphics) It's missed opportunity, it's pity that most of the magic is gone, don't get me wrong, the graphics are gorgeous, the acting is great, but the philosophy of the realistic game is gone, everything that made the game a classic is gone, now it's just generic third person cover shooter, and there has been lot of these games in the last 15 years. I put a lot of effort, time and a whole part of my life to make this game work, and trust me, it was a hell."

Guess it's time for Vavra to make another mobster game to teach everyone how it's done. Preferably from the first person perspective with as many immersive sim elements as Kingdom Come Deliverance.

 

[cretin]

Guess it's time for Vavra to make another mobster game to teach everyone how it's done. Preferably from the first person perspective with as many immersive sim elements as Kingdom Come Deliverance.

Nah, he should move on to whatever is interesting to him. I don't know how much Vavra is into Mafia stuff personally, but as a writer you rarely want to revisit stuff you did decades ago unless you have really fresh ideas. I didn't find the writing in M2 to be particularly inspired.

I mean sure I bet warhorse studios could make a great mobster game, but specific to writing I wouldn't expect Vavra to be particularly interested, and not at all surprised if he let someone else do the writing entirely while he focused on direction.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I love the genre and I've grown up with the best examples of noir and gangster/revisionary gangster movies, but I admit it's limited in the themes you can touch on. As is any genre really, otherwise it wouldn't be a genre. This historical summary confirmed my impressions, may be interesting for you:

 

[J_C]

Vávra should make a 70s-80s gangster game, ala Scarface.

 

[Belegarsson]

I bought the game for 10 bucks due to Humble Bundle's pricing error. Halfway through, and I find it to be an oddly "urgent" game.

Why urgent? Jugashvili made a lot of points about how deeply integrated Tommy's occupation as a cabbie is to the city itself. There's a reason why the OG Mafia had the quasi-official subtitle "The City of Lost Heaven", as LH was like half the protagonist of the game. Here, it acts more like a backdrop in your usual open world game and plays even a more minimal role than Mafia 3. The hand holding waypoint, the lack of natural exploration incentives, the fact that it's really difficult to navigate and learn where you are based on sign posts which feels like the game wasn't designed for no radar experience at all. Even the existence of the optional "skip drive" feature makes me question about the developer's commitment to what Mafia truly is.

In missions, you no longer walk to the garage, get into a car and drive out naturally. Now there's either a pre-picked car waiting for you outside of Vincenzo's quarter, or you can choose it in Mafia 2-esque menu. When you drive back to the bar or to a story location, the game often doesn't really let you physically drive there, but rather skip straight to a cutscene once you're near them. The only exception I've seen so far is in Fairplay when you drive back the sabotaged car.

Tommy's character development feels gone by too quickly too. In OG Running Man, I remember Tommy had to drive 5 passengers before getting attacked by Morello's goons. It served as a kick back to reality after the fast paced introduction earlier, the reality where Tommy was still stuck in a mundane and often looked down job (which was reenacted in M2 with Vito working at Derek's dock). In DE I felt there was very little frustration in him when his car got wrecked, and the cab gameplay was too short to feel any kind of unfulfillment and wish to change from Tommy.

Sarah chapter is another example. You can fight all those punks with 2 buttons on Classic difficulty, and there's a gamey big bad boss with a baseball bat. That's really unnecessary.

It's a cinematic but at the same time is also a very snappy action game. Mafia 3 had a lot of faults but I loved the catharsis killing spree from pure rage that was in line with Lincoln's revenge story. This game, it just feels like the equivalent of a Hollywood's Oldboy remake, one that tried to bring back the soul, the look and the edge of the OG but kinda missed the point entirely. It's the flashy version of Mafia yet it still retains stuffs like gas station, speed limiter, realistic vehicle damage which feel detached to the rest of the game. I can't tell what the hell kind of game it wanted to be exactly.

 

[JDR13]

I bought the game for 10 bucks due to Humble Bundle's pricing error.

You got pretty lucky. I saw that shit and tried to buy it, but they literally corrected the error sometime between me putting it in my shopping cart and hitting the purchase button.

Despite the decline, it sounds like you're enjoying it for the most part.