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KickStarter Mechajammer (formerly Copper Dreams) - cyberpunk RPG from Whalenought Studios

Feyd Rautha

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
1,133
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Hannah and Joe worked on this for so money years, they need some income to keep delivering. Just buy the damned game and rate it positive on Steam. Let them have some income and then hopefully we will get some more games.

e: how will they be able to fix the game if they have no sales?
 
Last edited:

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
8,310
Location
Disco Elysium
Hannah and Joe worked on this for so money years, they need some income to keep delivering. Just buy the damned game and rate it positive on Steam. Let them have some income and then hopefully we will get some more games.
Still you cannot ignore how badly managed it is. Multiple system revamps (remember the grandia system, the tick system, then whatever is in between then and the current) multiple artstyle change etc.


I love their passion still, but like most artists, they need some kinda leash to prevent them from unstoppably adding more stuff or changing stuff. Like how even a brilliant writer need a strong, decisive editor.


I do wish the best of luck for them. I bought the game, but i will play it later when hopefully it is in better condition
 

unseeingeye

Cleric/Mage
Patron
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
199
Strap Yourselves In
What a shame. I bought it yesterday but with no intention of playing it any time soon, as I did with Serpent in the Staglands, and as I do pretty much any of the very few brand new games I find interesting because of the now standardized expectation that games are released unfinished.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
7,823
Why do people keep releasing games in such a state? I just don't understand.
For indies, such a terrible start (50% of the first 40 or so reviews) is nothing you can seriously recover from. People are just going to see it, go "nah" and never look back.
And it's pretty much all just due to bugs - bugs that are so glaringly obvious they must have been aware of them. Lots of people can't finish the tutorial because of bugs - imagine that :lol:

I'm really confused about this.
Worse is reading the dev answers on steam , its as if it just need some tweaking and suggestions...Oh and of course they locked the thread for "insults". This is almost in the scam area.I dont understand either, except completely running out of cash or insanity.
 

Fargus

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
893
Location
Moscow
What a shame. I bought it yesterday but with no intention of playing it any time soon, as I did with Serpent in the Staglands, and as I do pretty much any of the very few brand new games I find interesting because of the now standardized expectation that games are released unfinished.

I've made the same mistake with Serpent of Staglands back then, i think it was shortly before refunds on steam were implemented.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
9,234
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
So, from the first few hours of playing:

- NON-REBINDABLE KEYS. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. WHY?! WHY DO DEVS KEEP DOING THIS. REBINDABLE KEYS ARE LIKE 1 OR 2 DAY OF WORK TO IMPLEMENT!!!!! FFS!!$%!&/(&/!)(&/)(ZHUOHJlkJKBLghdfjklghjhkl
- Default keys are inane. Q for quicksave, right next to the camera movement/driving keys. Oh, and there's only one slot for quicksaves. L to enter the Load menu - which is the only way to get there. Yup, ESC does not let you enter a menu that would let you save/load. Nothing is bound to F1-12 keys... :lol:
- There's quicksave - but not quickload. :lol:
- Not sure what the 2x/4x/8x entries in the menu do. I assume anti-aliasing? Not that it matters, as the game will just reset whatever you select to nothing. :lol:
- Loading a game removes all items from the ground, found that out after throwing a bunch of knives. All knives gone after reload.
- Navigating in the game is an absolute PITA: You cannot click where you cannot see (not even if you've been somewhere already). Click behind a door to walk through it? Nah. Good luck trying to open a window to jump through it without having your char walk around the entire building to go outside the window instead.
- ESC closes menus. Sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't - within the same menu. It's like ESC also needs to roll some dice to work. Very meta :lol:
- Enemies respawn at the speed of light. Don't blink or they'll be back. Makes armor entirely useless as the relentlessly respawning enemies will eventually wear it down.
- You need to roll the dice to repair an item. Which consumes a repair kit - even on failure. Did I mention there's no quickload?
- Tutorial gives misleading advice and tends to bug out.
- There's a map, but it doesn't let you add notes.
- There's a notepad - but no quest log whatsoever.
- Wasn't able to convince a single vagrant to join me or tell me rumors (despite being specced for social).
- Trying to aim at two-pixel-large body parts while enemies walk around in real-time is a wonderful experience - if you enjoy grinding your teeth on sand paper, anyway.
- Art style makes it VERY hard to make anything out. No key to highlight interactable items. Opening lockers and picking up items is SUPER fun - did I mention sand paper already?
- No combat or dice roll log. Why did you fail a hack/lockpick/charm/etc.? Game won't tell you.
- Reload to find your character suddenly surrounded by nobody, by some enemies, by like a hundred vagrants. ???
- Sometimes, your character just stops moving. That's it, time for a reload.
- No telling what chances of success for an action are beforehand. No % indicator, nothing.

About the actual gameplay...
Got no clue whatsoever on how to proceed in the starting area.
I found PC to lower the bridges, but despite a char specializing in hacking, learning & social, I was unable to hack it after multiple attempts. I can only assume you need to find the password. You even need to guess the username in order to attempt hacking...
Searched the entire level for password hints, been in every room, nothing. Although I guess it is possible I missed some rooms as the graphics and map make it barely possible to tell where you can actually go... or that I missed some three-pixel-large items as there's no way to highlight what is interactable. Or that I loaded a save and the game removed some vital item on the ground.
Got to the boss - unkillable, takes no damage from anything. Or my char does not do enough damage. Who knows, the game sure won't tell you... Knockout works every time though, so he's completely harmless :lol: Doesn't matter, as he doesn't have anything useful, either.
As a small bonus: Knock out the boss and reload to have him walk to you, talk to you and initiate combat again - even if you are in another room :lol:

Yeah, I know, Serpent was also obnoxiously opaque in wtf you are supposed to do, but come on, this is the starting area.
People are going to play this, get stuck, downvote and move on to more joyful endeavors...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
42,492
Hannah and Joe worked on this for so money years, they need some income to keep delivering. Just buy the damned game and rate it positive on Steam. Let them have some income and then hopefully we will get some more games.
How much will you pay me to go dig some holes?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
42,492
Hannah and Joe worked on this for so money years, they need some income to keep delivering. Just buy the damned game and rate it positive on Steam. Let them have some income and then hopefully we will get some more games.
How much will you pay me for holes to be dug by an unspecific person while I take credit?
 

sigard

Savant
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
506
Why do people keep releasing games in such a state? I just don't understand.
For indies, such a terrible start (50% of the first 40 or so reviews) is nothing you can seriously recover from. People are just going to see it, go "nah" and never look back.
And it's pretty much all just due to bugs - bugs that are so glaringly obvious they must have been aware of them. Lots of people can't finish the tutorial because of bugs - imagine that :lol:

I'm really confused about this.
Worse is reading the dev answers on steam , its as if it just need some tweaking and suggestions...Oh and of course they locked the thread for "insults". This is almost in the scam area.I dont understand either, except completely running out of cash or insanity.

They are jews.
 

BlackGoat

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
502
Maybe they run out of food
There's always roots

O1lJzkZ.png
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,437
Why do people keep releasing games in such a state? I just don't understand.
For indies, such a terrible start (50% of the first 40 or so reviews) is nothing you can seriously recover from. People are just going to see it, go "nah" and never look back.
And it's pretty much all just due to bugs - bugs that are so glaringly obvious they must have been aware of them. Lots of people can't finish the tutorial because of bugs - imagine that :lol:

I'm really confused about this.

Kind of reminds me of Stygian, where they had a decent foundation but then stumbled right at the finish line. Like you said, it's hard to recover from a bad release (though I suppose more indies could go the "enhanced edition" route).

I love their passion still, but like most artists, they need some kinda leash to prevent them from unstoppably adding more stuff or changing stuff. Like how even a brilliant writer need a strong, decisive editor.

That's why lack of involvement with the backers is a bad sign. Backers can point out mistakes you're in the process of making, or bad directions you're going in. When developers are off on their own, it's easy for them to waste time constantly re-doing systems that are good enough (or even downgrading them with new ideas), add unnecessary systems like vehicles, or just spin their wheels while telling everyone they're working on things. See Barkley 2 for another example of where backers could have really kept the development in check, but silence let all of them burn through everything and then ghost the project.

What was needed was working on and refining what we saw in the Kickstarter pitch 5 years ago, not making a bunch of different games, only one of which was released.

KotC 2 is a good example of how important backer feedback is. Imagine if Pierre released it on Steam in it's initial state. But he took his time, tried to address backer criticism and bug reports, and now he has a game that will be much more solid on release.
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
3,448
Location
Free City of Warsaw
Purchased the game, will play it in 2023 when it (hopefully) gets finished.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
9,234
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Purchased the game, will play it in 2023 when it (hopefully) gets finished.
That's what makes it so terrible, really.
Below all of those issues (of which I'd say 90% are fixable), there is a very interesting game.
And pretty, too - I do like the art style, but the game needs some tools to deal with its drawbacks.

From their replies so far, I get the impression that they were unaware of the issues.
Which I am at a loss of words for. Everyone is bringing up the same points, more or less. There's no way they had testers who did not bring those points up as well.
 

CyberWhale

Arcane
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
5,026
Location
Fortress of Solitude
Worse is reading the dev answers on steam , its as if it just need some tweaking and suggestions...Oh and of course they locked the thread for "insults". This is almost in the scam area.I dont understand either, except completely running out of cash or insanity.

The latter.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
17,955
Location
Jersey for now
Played the tutorial. It needs some further polishing but overall it's not bad. I've played the phase-based TB before with that with Eschalon I and II and I enjoyed it. Combat in a vehicle is NOT recommended in tutorial at ALL because I just kept getting wacked to death. But beyond that, it was good. Overall, I like a lot of it. The look of the game is definitely unique and different from anything else I've played thus far.
 

Lucky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
672
Putting this away for later. lots of bugs. I can forgive a lot of jank as long as what lies underneath it is worth it, but the game does need to at the very least be be playable. Aside from control niggles, it's bugs bugs bugs bugs. The actual game itself isn't hard, the real challenge is figuring out if what you're dealing with is intentional or the game bugging out and whether reloading will make it worse.

Precisely because this is was done by a tiny team I have to wonder whether any benefits gained from the system and art-style reworks outweighed the required time investment. I enjoyed the original art just fine and while the new style has its charm it doesn't feel superior to the original, plus it can obscure important gameplay elements.

There's a potentially good game underneath here, but digging it out is going to take work and I imagine the less than smooth launch will make it hard for them to stay motivated. I'm guessing they might try for an enhanced edition update style rebranding down the line.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,180
So, from the first few hours of playing:

- NON-REBINDABLE KEYS. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. WHY?! WHY DO DEVS KEEP DOING THIS. REBINDABLE KEYS ARE LIKE 1 OR 2 DAY OF WORK TO IMPLEMENT!!!!! FFS!!$%!&/(&/!)(&/)(ZHUOHJlkJKBLghdfjklghjhkl
- Default keys are inane. Q for quicksave, right next to the camera movement/driving keys. Oh, and there's only one slot for quicksaves. L to enter the Load menu - which is the only way to get there. Yup, ESC does not let you enter a menu that would let you save/load. Nothing is bound to F1-12 keys... :lol:
- There's quicksave - but not quickload. :lol:
- Not sure what the 2x/4x/8x entries in the menu do. I assume anti-aliasing? Not that it matters, as the game will just reset whatever you select to nothing. :lol:
- Loading a game removes all items from the ground, found that out after throwing a bunch of knives. All knives gone after reload.
- Navigating in the game is an absolute PITA: You cannot click where you cannot see (not even if you've been somewhere already). Click behind a door to walk through it? Nah. Good luck trying to open a window to jump through it without having your char walk around the entire building to go outside the window instead.
- ESC closes menus. Sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't - within the same menu. It's like ESC also needs to roll some dice to work. Very meta :lol:
- Enemies respawn at the speed of light. Don't blink or they'll be back. Makes armor entirely useless as the relentlessly respawning enemies will eventually wear it down.
- You need to roll the dice to repair an item. Which consumes a repair kit - even on failure. Did I mention there's no quickload?
- Tutorial gives misleading advice and tends to bug out.
- There's a map, but it doesn't let you add notes.
- There's a notepad - but no quest log whatsoever.
- Wasn't able to convince a single vagrant to join me or tell me rumors (despite being specced for social).
- Trying to aim at two-pixel-large body parts while enemies walk around in real-time is a wonderful experience - if you enjoy grinding your teeth on sand paper, anyway.
- Art style makes it VERY hard to make anything out. No key to highlight interactable items. Opening lockers and picking up items is SUPER fun - did I mention sand paper already?
- No combat or dice roll log. Why did you fail a hack/lockpick/charm/etc.? Game won't tell you.
- Reload to find your character suddenly surrounded by nobody, by some enemies, by like a hundred vagrants. ???
- Sometimes, your character just stops moving. That's it, time for a reload.
- No telling what chances of success for an action are beforehand. No % indicator, nothing.

About the actual gameplay...
Got no clue whatsoever on how to proceed in the starting area.
I found PC to lower the bridges, but despite a char specializing in hacking, learning & social, I was unable to hack it after multiple attempts. I can only assume you need to find the password. You even need to guess the username in order to attempt hacking...
Searched the entire level for password hints, been in every room, nothing. Although I guess it is possible I missed some rooms as the graphics and map make it barely possible to tell where you can actually go... or that I missed some three-pixel-large items as there's no way to highlight what is interactable. Or that I loaded a save and the game removed some vital item on the ground.
Got to the boss - unkillable, takes no damage from anything. Or my char does not do enough damage. Who knows, the game sure won't tell you... Knockout works every time though, so he's completely harmless :lol: Doesn't matter, as he doesn't have anything useful, either.
As a small bonus: Knock out the boss and reload to have him walk to you, talk to you and initiate combat again - even if you are in another room :lol:

Yeah, I know, Serpent was also obnoxiously opaque in wtf you are supposed to do, but come on, this is the starting area.
People are going to play this, get stuck, downvote and move on to more joyful endeavors...
Thanks for posting. I was curious as to whether Three Hands is really as hard as he seems. Did you go into the sewery area with the mutant pups?
 

PEACH

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
285
The tutorial is really good at teaching you to never bother with companions, vehicles or guns. The wrench on the other hand hits like a flak cannon, so I built my character around stealth/blunt/hacking to avoid the tedium of companion management and whatever the fuck is going on with gun accuracy.

I'm finding it surprisingly compelling despite a lot of bizarre choices and QOL oversights. To say it's rough around the edges is an understatement, but I think they've got something interesting here and I hope they have the means to continue polishing it. Haven't encountered any bugs yet (and my constitution has been forged by enduring Stygian's day 1 crash bonanza) so I think I'll continue for the time being and see where this goes.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
17,955
Location
Jersey for now
Yep. I won't be a street samurai, because that's horseshit cyberpunk pro-jap garbage, but I will be a melee focused Aztecan Jaguar Guerrero because machetes and jungles bitch.
 
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