KickStarter Mechajammer (formerly Copper Dreams) - cyberpunk RPG from Whalenought Studios

[Mustawd]

Oh right. Ok, no alpha.

 

[conan_edw]

No alpha yet but a minor update

 

[ERYFKRAD]

No alpha yet but a minor update

Hang the update, now I know they are alive.

 

[Diggfinger]

Good to know that only a few micro-issues remain

 

[conan_edw]

 

[buffalo bill]

Looks quite a bit worse than the previous, Moebius-like art iteration imo. Like it went from a 70s/80s sci-fi comic to a 90s marvel comic.

 

[JarlFrank]

So how many artstyles did the game go through now? :D

 

[conan_edw]

I think it's only the depth of field that's making these gifs kinda irritating

 

[Prime Junta]

Oh goody, another art style.

Word to the wise, if you don't have a crystal-clear artistic vision, then stick to the basics. Otherwise it'll just end up looking like gimmicky shit. It takes more than cel-shading to make your shit look like Moebius.

 

[Jimmious]

Imagine what they could've accomplished by now, if they would've spent their time doing all the other stuff other than changing art styles

 

[Zombra]

Imagine what they could've accomplished by now, if they would've spent their time doing all the other stuff other than changing art styles

Eh, it's not like they're burning down the game and starting from scratch every time. You draw something, then you draw something else, then you draw something else. Of course Joe'll want to do a final pass on everything when they settle on a final style, but he would have done that anyway. Plenty of games have a thousand iterations of concept art before the look is finalized. The only difference here is that Joe is iterating in the game engine.

 

[Grotesque]

magine what they could've accomplished by now, if they would've spent their time doing all the other stuff other than changing art styles

bull-shiT.

 

[PEACH]

I get that he's iterating on a concept but they've veered past at least two really fitting looks in the process and somehow landed on the most generic one yet with these latest gifs. Has the gaudy look of a saturday morning cartoon and the contrast between those bright ui / laser colours + the neutral backdrop is really awkward and poorly colour coordinated.

Should've stuck with the look from the original trailer or the last hyperstylized one they showed. If I saw the current visuals on gog/steam and I was unfamiliar with the game/the developer updates I'd think it was shovelware shit. Obviously given the trend of constantly reiterating and upheaving the visuals entirely I'm not convinced this will last more than a month, but it's not a good sign that they seem to be floundering haphazardly in every direction with each subsequent update.

 

[Zombra]

Shrug. For every new screenshot posted, there's going to be someone who points at it and says, "THAT is what you should have made the whole game look like!"

Joe's still trying stuff out. At this point there's no reason to think this latest look is going to be the final result. And despite what you say PEACH, trying wildly different styles is a very profitable way to iterate artistic ideas. Eventually he'll settle on what he likes best. Personally I'm getting plenty of entertainment simply watching the evolution of the thing.

 

[PEACH]

I backed the game based on the proof of concept trailer and I don't think it's ridiculous to expect something at least remotely akin to that in the end, do you? I'm not saying I need a 1;1 representation of that, but as far as I'm concerned you can do your art fag meandering to your heart's content before you sell an idea, not after. Having co-run a record label / having had my music released through multiple I understand your points on the subject of iteration and trying different styles / experimenting and would be the first person to champion it as an integral part of the process, much as you may think I disagree, I just don't think now's the best time.

It's going to be one of my most anticipated games regardless of whether it looks like an episode of the x-men cartoon or not, but I can't help but feel that all this iteration hasn't really gotten them anywhere, while simultaneously they can't meet alpha deadlines and the game never seems to get any closer to being finished despite being well past their predicted release date. I'll live with this, but you can't really fault me for thinking it's a bit of a poorly thought out mess at this point.

 

[Zombra]

I backed the game based on the proof of concept trailer and I don't think it's ridiculous to expect something at least remotely akin to that in the end, do you?

It's not ridiculous. If you wanted to request a refund on that basis, I'd support you.

I'm not saying I need a 1;1 representation of that, but as far as I'm concerned you can do your art fag meandering to your heart's content before you sell an idea, not after. Having co-run a record label / having had my music released through multiple I understand your points on the subject of iteration and trying different styles / experimenting and would be the first person to champion it as an integral part of the process, much as you may think I disagree, I just don't think now's the best time.

Then you're used to a model where you create the product first and then sell it. I get that. But kickstarter is providing support for that very process. If you want the creative process to happen and be done before you put in your $, don't use kickstarter; just sit back and wait for release. It's really that simple.

It's going to be one of my most anticipated games regardless of whether it looks like an episode of the x-men cartoon or not, but I can't help but feel that all this iteration hasn't really gotten them anywhere, while simultaneously they can't meet alpha deadlines and the game never seems to get any closer to being finished despite being well past their predicted release date. I'll live with this, but you can't really fault me for thinking it's a bit of a poorly thought out mess at this point.

As to the release date etc., sure, the project may not have been managed brilliantly. That's not what these guys do. In my opinion that's not a good reason for them to say "Fuck the art, let's stop drawing and just release whatever half-done thing even if we're unsatisfied with it."

As for the iteration not being worthwhile, I completely disagree. Even if the final product ends up not looking like my favorite, hopefully it'll be Joe's favorite and that's what I honestly want when I support an artist in this way: something that reflects what they truly wanted to produce.

 

[PEACH]

Can't argue with any of that. Have to concede that you're probably on the right side of this and my biases and expectations may be unfair when it comes to this specific situation.

I appreciate the level headed perspective and though I admit to still having some issues with the endeavor perhaps I should've taken a step back from what I wanted before being as rough and myopic as I was because reading your rebuttal has made those aspects of my argument more clear to me, especially your point re: the Kickstarter format, wherein my involvement is my choice and that comes with the good and bad of it

Edit: still hate this latest take on the art though

 

[Terra]

We urgently need a 2nd kickstarter to fund additional art styles.

 

[Ninjerk]

How are changes like this implemented? Writing new shaders? Whatever it is, how much does it really take to change? There are some things in life that don't take very long and have a yuuge effect on first impressions when e.g. selling things.

Spoiler

Probably just my backer agenda talking, though

 

[hello friend]

If it's shaders they can make the visuals change depending on the quality and brand of your cybernetic eyes

 

[ERYFKRAD]

If it's shaders they can make the visuals change depending on the quality and brand of your cybernetic eyes

Whalenought_Joe I hope you read this.
Inb4 alpha delayed.

 

[Whalenought_Joe]

How are changes like this implemented? Writing new shaders? Whatever it is, how much does it really take to change? There are some things in life that don't take very long and have a yuuge effect on first impressions when e.g. selling things.

Spoiler

Probably just my backer agenda talking, though

This is the same stuff from around June when we started focusing on the art direction, just color grading and some other tech improvements, so this was pretty easy. Models were getting updated anyway. We have a video for the website prepped talking about gameplay design and also some more of the art stuff.


The Kickstarter update we should be firing off tonight has some footage of some UI, UX, and AI updates we wanted to get in before shipping the alpha, should be up soon!

 

[Whalenought_Joe]

Can't argue with any of that. Have to concede that you're probably on the right side of this and my biases and expectations may be unfair when it comes to this specific situation.

I appreciate the level headed perspective and though I admit to still having some issues with the endeavor perhaps I should've taken a step back from what I wanted before being as rough and myopic as I was because reading your rebuttal has made those aspects of my argument more clear to me, especially your point re: the Kickstarter format, wherein my involvement is my choice and that comes with the good and bad of it

Edit: still hate this latest take on the art though

We'll be doing another detail model pass on the characters after the alpha is out — you might be interested again once that's ready to go! Now that we're doing more finalized art for this style we're actually using most of the same principles we were using when they were more Vagrant Story-esque pixel art, now just high resolution showing them more as a rendered illustration so it isn't so needlessly janky.

 

[Sykar]

Can't argue with any of that. Have to concede that you're probably on the right side of this and my biases and expectations may be unfair when it comes to this specific situation.

I appreciate the level headed perspective and though I admit to still having some issues with the endeavor perhaps I should've taken a step back from what I wanted before being as rough and myopic as I was because reading your rebuttal has made those aspects of my argument more clear to me, especially your point re: the Kickstarter format, wherein my involvement is my choice and that comes with the good and bad of it

Edit: still hate this latest take on the art though

We'll be doing another detail model pass on the characters after the alpha is out — you might be interested again once that's ready to go! Now that we're doing more finalized art for this style we're actually using most of the same principles we were using when they were more Vagrant Story-esque pixel art, now just high resolution showing them more as a rendered illustration so it isn't so needlessly janky.

Why not conduct a poll showing the same screenshot in all the different styles and see what the majority likes most?

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

If it's shaders they can make the visuals change depending on the quality and brand of your cybernetic eyes

Whalenought_Joe I hope you read this.
Inb4 alpha delayed.

Does this system take into account status effects caused by various drugs that PC could use?