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But simply I can't understand why the player should be penalized for fultoning when the game is, partially, about fultoning things to improve the Mother base
Well, because a valid point of view is that it interferes with 'stealth gameplay', and I guess more people play or are interested in playing MGSV for its stealth mechanics rather than its base-improving mechanics.
And those balloons should be easily spotted at least from a couple of miles away, I've seen videos of people fultoning from inside enemy bases/camps with no consequences whatsoever.
The story is an utter fucking mess. Not as bad as MGS4, but it’s a real shambles. Broadly speaking, the first chapter of the game is tedious, poorly paced, lacking proper exposition (I’ll get to this again later), and with a shallow villain
Who’s goals and actions are only fleshed out after he’s already dead, in optional side-content
. The second chapter is basically just a series of epilogues that have great individual moments, but has no real overarching story to link any of them together, with one being left as a pretty huge dangling plot thread, so at best they just feel…random. A lot of the character-specific content of the second chapter could’ve easily been made part of the first chapter, and it would’ve left both parts of the game stronger for it. Yes, I know that the second half was supposed to be resolved and the mission for it was cut, but I can’t give kudos to Kojima for something that ultimately still isn’t in the final game. The final mission isn’t even really an ending, it’s just another plot twist that doesn’t act to tie the whole game up or anything.
I’ll admit, the codec conversations and cutscenes in the prior games were a clumsy way to handle exposition, often resulting in 10-15+ minutes made up of nothing but floating heads talking to one another about shit necessary to make the plot progress, but holy shit is it better than forcing the player to go on binge-listens through mountains of optional audio cassette tapes if they want to understand exactly what the fuck is going on.
If you hated base-building in Peace Walker, then congratulations, because you’re gonna re-live that hatred all over again here! Only real consolation is that staff morale is basically a non-issue now, so you don't have to worry about maintaining a fucking cafeteria anymore.
Basically all the new characters in the game bar Quiet are pretty boring. Skull-Face had the potential to be a proto-Solidus, but his plan is too nonsensical to really take seriously and not enough time is really given to him in the actual game
Re: not in cassette tapes only released after he’s already dead
that he’s really just a waste. Code-Talker’s just dull, really no other way to tell it.
The whole ‘men become demons’ thing is really a great big marketing lie. Big Boss never goes over the deep end in the game,
Yes, I know, I’ll talk about that later
, and with Miller
The worst he really does in the game is to Huey, who is later revealed to be guilty of nearly everything he was accused of and is essentially one of the most despicable, cowardly characters in the whole series, and Quiet, who is eventually revealed to have been exactly what he accused her of, and the only reason she didn’t wipe them all out is because she fell in love with Big Boss.
, other than that, he’s arguably as moral as ever, he’s just a grumpy asshole now instead. Miller has his big spiel about how they’re gonna shove their noses in bloody battlefield dirt and how they’re gonna play every dirty trick in the book and how they’re gonna become damned forever in their drive for revenge, and here’s the grand total of what they do in the game:
· Rescue POW’s
· Aid the Mujahedeen against the Soviets, who’re building a nuclear apocalypse machine
· Save child soldiers and try to reintegrate them into society by giving them a home and free education
· Save the environment
· Try to improve the lives of people in impoverished, third world countries.
· Save the world from a parasite that would’ve killed billions of people
· Saved the world from a nuclear apocalypse
· Murder a man who planned to kill billions and control the world via magic nanomachine shenanigans
· Spare the life of a man who was directly involved with the destruction of the original Mother Base, tried to use his two-year old son as a Guinea pig for his nuclear apocalypse machine, murdered his wife by inaction when she tried to object to this, tried to sell Big Boss out again even after they let him back in, and was directly responsible for the deaths of dozens of Mother Base staff when he tried to kill them all again.
· Try to make the perfect burger
Yeah, real turn to the dark side, there.
A majority of the missions in Chapter 2 are rehashes of the levels from the first chapter. Not DMC4 “same levels, but with different cutscenes and character”, it’s literally the same level with upgraded enemies and modifiers attached. While admittedly some of the modifiers are interesting (for instance, the SUBSISTENCE modifier, which forces you to procure all your equipment on-site), the most commonly used one is the EXTREME modifier, which just buffs the damage of all the enemies because fuck you.
It ain’t a MGS game if there isn’t some kind of retcon, and boy oh boy does this game shovel them on in the final mission.
I was never the fan of the ‘imposter’ theory, so I was surprised when I found out the game handled the twist a whole lot better than I expected, but it still annoyed me somewhat. On top of the stuff I mentioned earlier about Big Boss never truly going over to the dark side, now on top of that this entire adventure was somewhat pointless because it was never even Big Boss to begin with. What should have been an extremely straight-forward turning to the dark side plot is just convoluted by Kojima’s fervent desire to shove a plot-twist in for what feels like the sake of it.
Conclusion: It’s the best, most disappointing game of the year for me. Mostly solid gameplay with a lot of well-done individual moments, that’s brought down by an utter mess of an overarching plot.
twist and how much better the game would be without it + addition of episode 51 (which btw, Venom Snake being BB's double feels so tacked on despite there being obvious points for it in hindsight)
I can't help but disagree because the story as a whole is bad to begin with. Take away that one aspect and you still get the dull characters (some of which are very divorced from the story), a somewhat disjointed narrative, and poor execution. Not to mention it has the same dumb obessive need to explain everything and tie it all to other games from MGS4, except now it is stuff from older games that no one was really asking about.
Solid gameplay for sure, but I feel everything around that groundwork is shaky.
The thing is improving the base allows the player new gear and new posibilites of gameplay, either by stealth gameplay or action gameplay. Although, the player can play the game without fultoning soldiers.
BTW, I don't see a huge difference between fultoning and moving the body into a locker or into a not patrolled zone. The thing that I see that it brings a good reason to knock out enemies instead of killing them. Because now I'm playing MGS2, and I don't see a reason to use the M9 instead of killing them by choking , or using the SOCOM with silencer.
I want to comment about those two things you mentioned here.
I can't get why the Fulton system should have a penalty attached to it besides the GMP that costs. The game partially based on improving the Mother base, and getting soldiers is one of the thing that the player must do if he wants to improve faster. That means that the game must encourage the fultoting if it wants the player wasting his time on fultoning. And which is that incentive? Make the infiltration easier. Its more easier to go in when you haven't to care about those bodies you are leaving sleeping or dead. I think is fine as it is planted.
About the resource management, is true that you haven't to care constantly about your gear (And that's why the subsistence missions feels so special). But the system is planted in a different way that the other MGS games. Now the difficult comes more from the situations themselves instead of the player's gear. For example, in this game you have "unlimited" ammo, and an assault rifle with a red dot sight and silencer will be more usefull that a generic assault rifle, but those things matters little when enemies with helmets and armors appears. Enemies that one shot in their protected parts will alarm the entire base. Even if you use a silencer. That said, the experience that the game wants to bring it's very different that the experience offered by the other MGS games.
The issue I have with the Fulton system is that it doesn't have enough drawbacks in how it fits into the overall game design. Yes, enemies do spot and shoot down careless Fultons, but at around a range of 50m, (which is a short distance in game terms), they become blind to it. Due to their negligible costs and unlimited resupplies, there is hardly any tactical decision involved when using Fultons -- if a Fulton opportunity is available, there is no real con to making use of that opportunity.
Compare that to how it used to work in the earlier trilogy -- MGS2 had guards in the second map who, if taken out through tranquilizers or lethal means, would trigger a patrol to check out their radio absence. In MGS3, suppressors could wear out quite quickly if one went around removing every single guard from the game through lethal or non-lethal means. Also on difficulties above normal, the significantly reduced ammo count in both games make such strategies far less feasible. In comparison, there just are not enough checks and balances to the Fulton system. It feels like the stealth systems were built after the Fulton gameplay mechanic was first established when I'd have preferred it to be the other way around.
The other issue with the Fulton system is how vital it is to base development. I feel that there needs to be atleast double the number of volunteers as a reward on finishing a mission "without a trace" (full ghosting). The number of volunteers during the early to mid game are too low due to the low heroism at that point, and that leads to frustrating roadblocks where I had to revisit those missions that I had already fully ghosted, only to Fulton the entire base to meet those research level requirements. This is equivalent to grinding, and I hated every moment of it. In contrast, the on site procurement of the earlier games sidestepped this issue entirely, and rewarded exploration to boot.
Onto the discussion on the different resource management in this game -- I felt the enemies just didn't pose enough of a challenge even on going the "rambo" route. Even outgunned and outgeared, I hardly feared the AI retaliation because the open world meant the odds were always in my favor. In contrast, the closed off maps of the earlier games meant alerting the guards often resulted in a quick game over screen. Only mission 45 felt like it was balanced around the unlimited supplies and regenerating health of the player, and it did this using cheap shots that could 1-hit kill you in the blink of an eye. (And the easiest way to get through that mission is probably the broken Fulton system again.)
Well, because a valid point of view is that it interferes with 'stealth gameplay', and I guess more people play or are interested in playing MGSV for its stealth mechanics rather than its base-improving mechanics.
And those balloons should be easily spotted at least from a couple of miles away, I've seen videos of people fultoning from inside enemy bases/camps with no consequences whatsoever.
The game doesn't use couple a mile distances tho, and enemy stun/tranq time is shorter than in prior games while the area of operations is always larger.
You can only Fulton up to 24 dudes, which in a long haul will mean you have to picky what you Fulton since you aren't going to Fulton just dudes but containers, vehicles, animals, and all other sorts of shit. By the time you first go to the power plant and main base area in Afghanistan, I was only Fultoning around 10% of the guards I ran across, since it wasn't worth it to constantly resupply when you still had other unused gear for the run. Using them to dispose of sleeping enemies is just pure waste of Fultons, since you want to preserve them for stuff that's worth extracting. A mortar or MG nest is actually worth something unlike a B-or-lower chump and animals help you avoid becoming horny. Either you ghost completely, or you can just shank some people if you don't want to worry about them waking up, and hide the bodies (which is straightforward since carrying a body is faster than earlier dragging).
Also the detection radius for Fulton is somewhere around 40-50 meters. They'll probably see them much farther away in combat alert tho, given that enemies can see hundreds of meters during that.
Past few missions have been disappointing. Feels like the game doesn't want me to stealth any more and throws in things I have to explode my way through. I know there may be stealthy ways to blow up a tank or a helicopter but right now I can't research anything better than ye olde grenade launcher, so I have to go loud on those missions and hope for the best.
If you fire from a distant position and relocate, the enemy is only in search mode since they don't know who shot at them and only have a vague direction. I took out three walkers and a helicopter without combat alert by relocating and picking my firing spots well. C4 is also a way to destroy armoured vehicles (or at least immobilize them), though it requires preparation and observation. Grenade launcher isn't a particularly good choice for the job tho, getting GROM-11 research done ASAP is important (also in the time attack tank busting mission you can pick up a cluster guided missile launcher from the truck they tell you about, which destroys AFVs in one shot). Bear in mind though that if you want to avoid a combat alert, do not shoot from a direction the enemy is looking at, they'll see the rocket ignition and go into combat alert. Later on you'll also gain access to advanced AT mines.
Alternatively once you have enough research you can actually Fulton the entire tank/AFV with its crew (which is fairly hilarious when you think about it) by sneaking up to a stationary vehicle undetected.
If you fire from a distant position and relocate, the enemy is only in search mode since they don't know who shot at them and only have a vague direction. I took out three walkers and a helicopter without combat alert by relocating and picking my firing spots well. C4 is also a way to destroy armoured vehicles (or at least immobilize them), though it requires preparation and observation. Grenade launcher isn't a particularly good choice for the job tho, getting GROM-11 research done ASAP is important (also in the time attack tank busting mission you can pick up a cluster guided missile launcher from the truck they tell you about, which destroys AFVs in one shot). Bear in mind though that if you want to avoid a combat alert, do not shoot from a direction the enemy is looking at, they'll see the rocket ignition and go into combat alert. Later on you'll also gain access to advanced AT mines.
Alternatively once you have enough research you can actually Fulton the entire tank/AFV with its crew (which is fairly hilarious when you think about it) by sneaking up to a stationary vehicle undetected.
Cheers bro, I actually did just that. I also picked up that fucking awesome OP launcher. But then it disappeared as soon as I went into the next mission. FUUUUUUUUU-
Though that's not a thing if you 1) are a cheap bastard like me, or 2) consider calling for supplies for such petty reasons to be tantamount to being a bitch boy.
The way I look at it, it's much better to have the system scaled in this manner, since it'd be much more harmful to more people the other way. Difficulty should always be a matter of personal choice, not something to be enforced so a few folks can swell their e-peen.
Not to mention the whole Metal Gear Fulton: Grand Theft Soldier (kinda funny tho that you steal way more shit in this game than in games where you are supposedly playing as a criminal) thing is not even close to being as much of an issue as the amount of classic MGS things missing from the game (ie, the presentation of the story and Big Boss prequel sequels overarching problem with Koch's Snowflake).
Cheers bro, I actually did just that. I also picked up that fucking awesome OP launcher. But then it disappeared as soon as I went into the next mission. FUUUUUUUUU-
The launcher is CGM, it's a late game research weapon.
Also take note that you can use launchers on horseback, which is very handy in that particular mission. Even openly fighting against tanks is better on horseback since you can dodge their fire more effectively thanks to the speed you can move at, and you can better circle around them (tank armor is much weaker in the rear).
It's a bit of a shame about the shitty Afrikaans. Couldn't they at least have hired an Afrikaans speaking person to tell them that their spoken sentences sound completely unnatural? It sounds like they used Google translate to compose their sentences.
Though I guess it doesn't matter too much to them, seeing as 99.99% of the people playing the game won't understand the language. I wonder if the Russian is any better.
Though that's not a thing if you 1) are a cheap bastard like me, or 2) consider calling for supplies for such petty reasons to be tantamount to being a bitch boy.
Your preference doesn't change the fact that it's a very abusable system. And btw you will also get refund if the supplies exceed your maximun carrying capacity.
The issue I have with the Fulton system is that it doesn't have enough drawbacks in how it fits into the overall game design. Yes, enemies do spot and shoot down careless Fultons, but at around a range of 50m, (which is a short distance in game terms), they become blind to it. Due to their negligible costs and unlimited resupplies, there is hardly any tactical decision involved when using Fultons -- if a Fulton opportunity is available, there is no real con to making use of that opportunity.
Compare that to how it used to work in the earlier trilogy -- MGS2 had guards in the second map who, if taken out through tranquilizers or lethal means, would trigger a patrol to check out their radio absence. In MGS3, suppressors could wear out quite quickly if one went around removing every single guard from the game through lethal or non-lethal means. Also on difficulties above normal, the significantly reduced ammo count in both games make such strategies far less feasible. In comparison, there just are not enough checks and balances to the Fulton system. It feels like the stealth systems were built after the Fulton gameplay mechanic was first established when I'd have preferred it to be the other way around.
The other issue with the Fulton system is how vital it is to base development. I feel that there needs to be atleast double the number of volunteers as a reward on finishing a mission "without a trace" (full ghosting). The number of volunteers during the early to mid game are too low due to the low heroism at that point, and that leads to frustrating roadblocks where I had to revisit those missions that I had already fully ghosted, only to Fulton the entire base to meet those research level requirements. This is equivalent to grinding, and I hated every moment of it. In contrast, the on site procurement of the earlier games sidestepped this issue entirely, and rewarded exploration to boot.
Onto the discussion on the different resource management in this game -- I felt the enemies just didn't pose enough of a challenge even on going the "rambo" route. Even outgunned and outgeared, I hardly feared the AI retaliation because the open world meant the odds were always in my favor. In contrast, the closed off maps of the earlier games meant alerting the guards often resulted in a quick game over screen. Only mission 45 felt like it was balanced around the unlimited supplies and regenerating health of the player, and it did this using cheap shots that could 1-hit kill you in the blink of an eye. (And the easiest way to get through that mission is probably the broken Fulton system again.)
The thing is I don't understand why the fulton should have more drawbacks. As the game is planned, is the no fultoning which should cause problems to the player.
If the player don't use the fulton, then he must eliminate the enemies and take care of the bodies. The good thing is the fastest way to get in, the bad thing is that the player must hide the bodies on not patrolled zones to avoid alert of the other enemies, and take care if those enemies are sleeping. Looking this, there's no reason to use tranquilizer guns instead of a silenced lethal one. If the player decides to fulton, then he must sleep or knock out the guards from behind, which is a more risky strategy. And then fulton taking care that there is no an enemy enough close to see him. Fultoning takes more time and is more boring. So, it must be rewarded somehow, and that somehow is making the infiltration easier and helping to develop the base. Even considering that the range of enemies spotting the fultons is not enough large, I think that is a properly made system.
Also, the fultoning helps a lot, but is not crucial to improve the Mother base. You will receibe volunters after completing the main missions, and with those volunteers you can create the first crucial items (Grenaude launcher for tank missions). During the completition of the main missions you'll receive more volunteer soldiers. In my whole playthrough I never had the need of stop what i'm doing and start to fulton soldiers and take items to improve the mother base. When I saw that I haven't the requesites for an item, I continued playing the main story and latter I could create it. Playing the main story I only fultoned some soldiers, and mostly were the best (The guys with armor). I only taken the resorces that I saw. In other words, I never felt the obligation to grind to upgrade the mother base, mainly because the mother base does everything for you.
About the resource management, I think the game does enough to equilibrate the resource deploy. I always had the sensation that I will need more that ammo and silencers to get in on the bases of the game. The enemies with the special gear make it. Even with the help of Quiet and her silenced sniper rifle, I experienced hard stealth and action situations. As I said before, the experience of the game is completely different in the subsistance missions (Felt like the older MG games). This is not about the lack of resource management is worse, it is about they're two completely different experiences. I understand perfectly you like the infilitration as the older games. Fortunately the game always brings to the player the posibility to play the missions as in the older MG games, excepting some missions like the bosses.
And fact is that because it's not a competetive game it's a non-issue. The only person that loses out is YOU personally, because it's YOUR preference to abuse a system instead of doing things a way you personally enjoy.
Anyway, I know you guys talked about this, but I also would like to reinforce that whoever came up with the idea of hiding the secret objectives, just to reveal them after the mission just to force you repeat the mission is an idiot. And you don't even get clues about them, so you can't figure it out.
I decided to look up the objectives (not the solution, just the name of the objective) on a site, so I will know what to look out for.
Sigh, I have to force more and more self-imposed rule on myself, to unfuck the fucked up parts of the game.
I'm slowly working my way through the game, and I really am enjoying it quite a bit, but I can't help but agree that some of the mechanics end up trivializing others. It's nowhere near as bad as other games with similar "upgrade" systems, but it still goes a little too far in the direction of having upgrades only to make challenging gameplay less so, instead of giving you more options.
Perhaps someone will mod in a "Hardcore" difficulty option. You can't disable Fultons entirely, but limiting them to maybe 3-5 per mission, limiting supply drops to once per mission, and only having Fultoned enemies actually arrive at MB after successfully completing the mission (except those that are part of objectives) would make Fultons a very specific tool for gathering only the most vital stuff or removing the most annoying enemies.
As it is, I still don't Fulton much just because I try to only do it to things I actually want at MB, but I understand the reasoning behind doing it to everything not nailed down.
Edit: Speaking of upgrades, what's the purpose of the lethal ammo upgrade for your tranq pistol? Is there something I'm missing about why you'd want that?
Pro tip: get yourself the Legendary Gunsmith ASAP. If you got that one you can customize your weapons, so you can get stuff like the silenced tranquilizer sniper rifle way early. At this point clearing outposts is only a matter of timing and figuring out the order in which I have to take enemies down, and taking out groups of heavy troopers is just a matter of sneaking up on them and CQCing them into submission one by one.
Well, because a valid point of view is that it interferes with 'stealth gameplay', and I guess more people play or are interested in playing MGSV for its stealth mechanics rather than its base-improving mechanics.
And those balloons should be easily spotted at least from a couple of miles away, I've seen videos of people fultoning from inside enemy bases/camps with no consequences whatsoever.
No, that a stupid point of view because it blatant ignores that knocked down enemies will awake on their own.
Without means to remove enemies from the map, it simply penalizes non-lethal since you cannot tie them up, lock then up or even remove their communication devices, without Fulton non-lethal is penalized to the point were its substantial less viable in stealth that lethal.
The argument against Fulton in stealth is non-existing because its there to provide non-lethal the same viability as lethal, otherwise people would just kill and hide the bodies.
I barely used fulton or even tranquilizers to remove enemies as a factor. Peace Walker taught me well how powerful a hold-up is. Just get behind them, point a gun at them and tell them to lie down. They will never ever get up unless another enemy finds them or you start an alarm phase.
And if you ever need to move them because they're in an inconvenient place, you just need to kick them once to knock them out, relocate them, kick them again to wake them up and immediately point a gun at them once more. I've neutralized entire bases that way.
Am I the only one that "holds up" enemies instead of leaving them knocked out or sleeping. Doesn't the "hold up" last forever and thus pretty much negate the cons of not going lethal/Fulton? In fact I found this to be even easier than Fultoning them out since I don't have to care about the distance to the nearest enemy. Just knock out or tranquilize the enemy with your preferred method, kick the enemy to wake them up and point the gun at their head. They'll never move unless another soldier comes to "rescue" them.
That said, Fultoning out the enemies is pretty ridiculous. It seems that the enemy hears the scream of the one being Fultoned from about 35m or so and sees them from slightly farther (maybe 40-45m at night/in darkness) so you'll only ever have to go like 50m away from the nearest enemy to securely Fulton them out.
MGS is amazingly deep for the military action genre. No other medium has created the same heavy political/philosophical atmosphere and entertainment quality.
(might be wrong, I just havent had an enemy cancel it yet)
