Might and Magic Might & Magic X - Legacy

[Kliwer]

You're saying that as if it makes MMXL any different from the previous MM titles.

Well, maybe I’m a bit to harsh in my statement. However some riddles and puzzles in Isles of Terra and World of Xeen was quite challenging form me. There were some long-term riddles, which forced me to make notes and carefully collecting clues. I miss something like “brother quest” in the third instalment (brothers Alfa, Beta, Gamma…). Event simple word riddles required, form me, a few attempts to answer (in contrast to “chest riddles” in Legacy which are quite obvious, at last for now). All those switches/teleports/pressure plates puzzles was also more complicated. I know I’m not far in to the game so maybe it will become better. But (again – maybe only for me) starting puzzles on the Dark Side of Xeen (for example those with running chest in the very first town) were much more interesting then anything I have already seen in Legacy.

There were almost no puzzles in Might and Magic 6-8, which is one of many reasons why I do not like this sub-series. However even in those games the Obelisk quest was not so obvious – you had to break a code after all. In X it seems that you just have to visit all Obelisks.

 

[Kliwer]

At one point, immunity to debuffs and status effects becomes mandatory, so Burning Determination is a must.

I understand. But is it my dwarfs starting magic value (5?) enough for this purpose?

 

[anvi]

I really liked this game too. But it seemed very low budget. I think forced turn based even outside of combat was maybe a cut corner too far. Not that I cared too much but I think it really limited the appeal (sales) of the game. And yeah, the world and regions were too small. I don't really like exploration unless the game is so big and realistic that it makes it fun, but this game was too small. It didn't seem like a world at all, not much more than a couple of villages and a little wilderness area in between. And as much as I liked the combat, it was a bit too simple. But overall I liked the game enough for 1 play through. I thought LoG 2 had a much better world and design, but this game had better combat. Although LoG2 with the "Magic of Grimrock" mod is one big highlight in gaming for me.

 

[V_K]

Well, maybe I’m a bit to harsh in my statement.

No, I completely agree. I'm saying the opposite - that you're too generous to the previous installments. Bradley's Wizardries they are not.

 

[Lacrymas]

I really liked this game too. But it seemed very low budget. I think forced turn based even outside of combat was maybe a cut corner too far. Not that I cared too much but I think it really limited the appeal (sales) of the game. And yeah, the world and regions were too small. I don't really like exploration unless the game is so big and realistic that it makes it fun, but this game was too small. It didn't seem like a world at all, not much more than a couple of villages and a little wilderness area in between. And as much as I liked the combat, it was a bit too simple. But overall I liked the game enough for 1 play through. I thought LoG 2 had a much better world and design, but this game had better combat. Although LoG2 with the "Magic of Grimrock" mod is one big highlight in gaming for me.

There are no forced turns out of combat, you can spam all the spells you want on a single char, the grid-based map is what "the culprit" is. It just goes back to pre-M&MVI-style movement. I don't think the world is too small, just uninteresting because of the setting; it tries to vary itself, like forests, jungles, cities, pirate stronghold, mountains, some kind of desolate shoreline, shadow temples, but it's all so cliche and done to death, it feels like a Mario world. The combat is the most developed out of all the M&M games, so I don't know what you are comparing it with to say it's simple.

 

[cvv]

Kliwer, the game is certainly less complex, sprawling and epic than previous titles. It's a small-ish indie game, the previous games have been the 1990s version of big budget triple A titles. The engine is an absolute joke and the assets are all lifted from Homam 6. Still I've done already 3 playthroughs and I'm planning more.

You can buy more advanced spells in Craig and later in Karhal. People usually make a beeline for Craing, as soon as they're able to beat 2 or 3 groups of orcs on the way. You get a lot of XP, quests and lewt in Craig. The dangerous caves are best to left for later. Cyclops are one of the toughest mobs in the game, definitely for 20+ lvl parties. Pump your Scout magic a little bit (15 should be enough, plus Novice Fire at the least, you can't play this game without Burning Determination). Destiny is definitely a good stat for any melee class, some people even pump Destiny without putting much points into Strength. Elemental resistances give you a chance to resist control spells and they lower the damage of nuke spells.

 

[Barbalos]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but you can speed up the enemy combat animations in the settings. If you have your basic plan for combat and set that to a good level, combat can become extremely fast; this is something I really like about X.

 

[anvi]

I really liked this game too. But it seemed very low budget. I think forced turn based even outside of combat was maybe a cut corner too far. Not that I cared too much but I think it really limited the appeal (sales) of the game. And yeah, the world and regions were too small. I don't really like exploration unless the game is so big and realistic that it makes it fun, but this game was too small. It didn't seem like a world at all, not much more than a couple of villages and a little wilderness area in between. And as much as I liked the combat, it was a bit too simple. But overall I liked the game enough for 1 play through. I thought LoG 2 had a much better world and design, but this game had better combat. Although LoG2 with the "Magic of Grimrock" mod is one big highlight in gaming for me.

There are no forced turns out of combat, you can spam all the spells you want on a single char, the grid-based map is what "the culprit" is. It just goes back to pre-M&MVI-style movement. I don't think the world is too small, just uninteresting because of the setting; it tries to vary itself, like forests, jungles, cities, pirate stronghold, mountains, some kind of desolate shoreline, shadow temples, but it's all so cliche and done to death, it feels like a Mario world. The combat is the most developed out of all the M&M games, so I don't know what you are comparing it with to say it's simple.

Turns or not, clunking through squares when you are travelling is a huge turn off for a lot of people. It is bad to remove such a key feature that older M&M games had. The world is way too small because those areas you talk about are all about 20 steps wide. Really disappointing. I liked the towns though, but I think the wilderness should have been double the size.

The combat seemed simple compared to almost any cRPG. In most games your casters get so many spells. In this game it was streamlined down to just the basics. I think it is the best M&M though but only because the combat in the other games was abysmal, and this one was ok. But compared to say Kingmaker which I'm playing now, it is super basic. I can't remember it enough to compare but I suspect it was even more basic than Fall of The Dungeon Guardians which I think was made by one guy.

 

[Darth Canoli]

You're saying that as if it makes MMXL any different from the previous MM titles.

It does, there is some interesting riddles & puzzles in M&M 3, 4 and 5.

Edit : V_K just play or replay them, not only there is some challenging riddles and puzzles in these titles but they are interesting, which is more that can be said of some puzzle heavy cRPG.

 

[Lacrymas]

There are some bonkers riddles in 3, like "what is too much for one, enough for two and nothing to three". The answer is "secret". What?

 

[Incendax]

I really liked this game too. But it seemed very low budget. I think forced turn based even outside of combat was maybe a cut corner too far. Not that I cared too much but I think it really limited the appeal (sales) of the game. And yeah, the world and regions were too small. I don't really like exploration unless the game is so big and realistic that it makes it fun, but this game was too small. It didn't seem like a world at all, not much more than a couple of villages and a little wilderness area in between. And as much as I liked the combat, it was a bit too simple. But overall I liked the game enough for 1 play through. I thought LoG 2 had a much better world and design, but this game had better combat. Although LoG2 with the "Magic of Grimrock" mod is one big highlight in gaming for me.

I have to admit, my greatest disappointment with the game was the fact it was Ashan. Ashan has consistently been completely uninspiring to me in every incarnation I've played in. Even Axeoth was better.

The game itself? Fine. But the world was completely forgettable.

 

[V_K]

You're saying that as if it makes MMXL any different from the previous MM titles.

It does, there is some interesting riddles & puzzles in M&M 3, 4 and 5.

Edit : V_K just play or replay them, not only there is some challenging riddles and puzzles in these titles but they are interesting, which is more that can be said of some puzzle heavy cRPG.

I've played Xeen quite recently, got bored halfway through Clouds because of the lack of mental engagement.
But IIRC, you also prefer Quest for Infamy over Heroine's Ques, so I'll diplomatically say that we're unlikely to agree on what constitutes good puzzles.

 

[Incendax]

I've played Xeen quite recently, got bored halfway through Clouds because of the lack of mental engagement.
But IIRC, you also prefer Quest for Infamy over Heroine's Ques, so I'll diplomatically say that we're unlikely to agree on what constitutes good puzzles.

To be fair, much of the love for World of Xeen is because of Darkside.

 

[Dorateen]

"what is too much for one, enough for two and nothing to three". The answer is "secret". What?

A secret, in its most basic form, is generally held to be information shared between two people. Thus, one person keeping a secret that no one else knows about is useless; too much for one. But it is enough for two people, because that is the central characteristic of a secret. And if one person should disclose information to a third party, well, it is no longer a secret: nothing to three.

 

[Lacrymas]

I know what they mean, but you can have a secret nobody knows, or three people know. After you know the answer, you can kinda see the logic, but it's not good.

 

[cvv]

There are some bonkers riddles in 3, like "what is too much for one, enough for two and nothing to three". The answer is "secret". What?

Yeah. But that's still nothing. By far the most insane riddle is in the Lost City:

History is told, forgotten, and can be told again.
What is put on parchment never remains unchanged.
Always truth can be washed away and rewritten, but the spectre of past worlds seldom completely fades.

Answer in the spoiler but don't worry, NOBODY in the world would guess that, mainly because only like 14 people in the Solar System even know this word exists.

Spoiler

Palimpsest.

 

[Lacrymas]

I actually got that one right without looking it up when I played 3, but yeah, it's a somewhat obscure word. The "riddle" is mostly a description of the word itself, so it isn't a logical leap, you just need to have heard it.

 

[cvv]

I actually got that one right without looking it up when I played 3

How did you even know the word?

 

[Lacrymas]

From a friend of mine's doctoral dissertation about 20th century Passions, a musical setting of the trial, torture, and death of Jesus. He likened the Passion as a genre to a palimpsest.

EDIT: I actually remembered I've used this word on this forum -

That's because TNO isn't a character in his mind and I see where he is coming from. TNO is literally a palimpsest that can't have an established character, but in the context of the narrative it works, probably the only example in gaming where a "blank slate" actually makes sense. The mystery of why he is what he is isn't a character trait though, and in terms of *characters* Dakkon is more interesting, so yeah, I know where he is coming from. All the other complaints can be boiled down to "this needs an editor", and yeah, maybe some things can use cleaning or a rewrite.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I know what they mean, but you can have a secret nobody knows, or three people know. After you know the answer, you can kinda see the logic, but it's not good.

It’s also not original to Isles of Terra; it’s a pretty classic riddle that you can find variations of among multiple different cultures. I think you’re just being Lacrymonious on this one, I’ve never heard anyone else complain about that riddle.

 

[Lacrymas]

It defaults to a secret being a thing between only 2 people, which is patently misleading. I can have a secret I tell no-one, or perhaps I and two other friends did a bad thing (tm) and can't tell anyone else. I'm not saying it's a riddle that can't be solved, I remember solving it after trying a few things without looking it up, but it's a strangely worded and biased riddle.

 

[V_K]

How did you even know the word?

It's a fairly common word though, I don't know why it stymied you so much. Google reporst ~2 mil results for it, for example.

 

[Barbalos]

About the palimpsest riddle, there is actually an NPC in Karthal who describes and defines the word exactly, you're meant to talk to them and then be able to solve that riddle (the NPC is in the Slums area of Karthal IIRC).

 

[Darth Roxor]

A secret is "too much for one" because when you know something exclusive you are all eager to spill the beans to someone else. It's too much to handle.

 

[commie]

It defaults to a secret being a thing between only 2 people, which is patently misleading. I can have a secret I tell no-one, or perhaps I and two other friends did a bad thing (tm) and can't tell anyone else. I'm not saying it's a riddle that can't be solved, I remember solving it after trying a few things without looking it up, but it's a strangely worded and biased riddle.

I bet you're the one that has issues with all those classical riddles such as "what has 4 legs in the morning, two at noon, and three in the evening?" whereby you'd howl that not every old person uses a walking stick and the idea that someone can go from toddler to old age in the space of a day, is patently preposterous and how in the hell could anyone guess that??....hurr.....durr.....