Might and Magic Might & Magic X - Legacy

[Arkeus]

Does anyone know which classes eventually get multiple strikes per round? Or is it entirely dependant upon the weapon skill level?

Also, where the hell is the manual?

Dagger gets you two more attacks per equipped daggers (expert and grandmaster).
Dual Wieldings gets you, beside the second attack, also one more attack on your offhand.
Sword gets you another attack when you crit (master).
Evasion gets you an attack when you evade (grandmaster). Not sure if it's just one strike or a full attack though, i need to get it first to check.
Shield gets you an attack when you block (master). Same as with Evasion, not sure if it's the full thing.

Apart from that, you also can get weapons that gives you more attacks. I think that's all.

Mercenary seems to be an evasion tank and little else.

And yeah exci, its spread out at first, but you get enough points to master them all eventually.

Yeah, given how spread out Trainers are, it makes sense to follow multiple schools at once.

Oh, and i envision Mercenary as a shield/evasion whirlwind: He attacks on evade and on block, so on his turn he does the big Master Warfare taunt, and on the enemies' turn he retaliate dozens of times :V

 

[GrimoireFTW]

I'm starting to wonder if a tank character is completely useless and I should just focus on pure deeps.

Crusader's light spells are useful for mitigating damage but ... not sure if worth t.

My Defender is great against bosses and small groups of strong enemies. Buffed up skills like Shatter or Challenge are a big help. And with buffed up Axe skill and a decent axe he's not bad in a large scale free for all either.

OK rerolling. I think I just need to tweak my stat distribution:

Crusader:

1 might
2 viality
1 perception

Blade Dancer:

2 might
1 vitality
1 perception

Free Mage/Druid:

2 magic
2 vitality

why would you put perception on crusader and blade dancer, they are both melee classes and perception is for ranged damage.

 

[veryalien]

It deals p. pathetic damage in my experience though. I think it's the worst you can do with expert warfare in a turn, between armor pen, taunt and the "silence".

2 magic
2 vitality

Oh man you'll regret this too. Enjoy casting 30 mana spells with 100 mana.

I mean spirit. Sorry.

why would you put perception on crusader and blade dancer, they are both melee classes and perception is for ranged damage.

Because perception increases all attack values and my crusader keeps missing.

 

[Crispy]

Just wanted to pop in to say I love this game.

I love it, I love it, I love it! Finally some incline and old-school goodness!

I know everything I'm going to say has already likely been said many times ITT, and to be honest I'm avoiding even reading it to completely shield myself against any kind of spoilers at all (I love discovering EVERYTHING myself), but I had to share.

Once you get this game to run with some stability, which for me has involved basically just backing off on some of the graphical options even though my rig should be able to laugh at it, its subtle genius starts to shine through. There are so many little things that I love seeing. The fact that your characters' voices and "barks" come from the appropriate side of your speakers according to their marching order, the fact that enemies who flank your party get a free shot on that *side* of your party (this is an obvious but easily overlookable thing by the developers). The fact that you can see the outside from inside a castle. The nicely-done little sound effects. Again, too many small things to mention but that all add up. And I'll be willing to bet that even more little touches are going to be added in the coming months, such as maybe more animations, things like that.

But the best thing overall about this game, by far in my mind, is its satisfying combat and the apparent *balance* the game possesses afaict. Obv. I'm playing on Warrior, and fights have been challenging enough but not impossible. I'm actually sitting up a little in my chair during boss fights now, roused from my shoulder-slumping slumber I've been in over the years! I know we're not talking about chess-level tactics here, but it's enough to get me a little excited again. The Mamushi fight, in particular, was great! I actually died several times -- WHATTYA KNOW? Thank you for giving me a little challenge for once! And the "crunchiness" of combat -- the satisfying "feel" and sound of it; arrows sticking out of heads and arms, the excellent flying damage animations, etc. -- really keeps me coming back. Will I grow tired of it by endgame? I don't know. Can any RPG's combat keep you that interested all the way through?

I can handle all these warts like the performance problems. I can handle some missing quality here and there, even the crowdfunded feel of this title. I almost think that Limbic outdid themselves here, though. So much enthusiasm for the future now! No more mushy shit sandwich RPG's! Finally one I can sink my teeth into!

Again I know I'm gushing. Fuck it; I don't care. This is Might & Magic the way I remember it. It's on, baby.

I don't mean to seem arrogant at all, but I really don't want to check back here for any responses. So great is my desire not to read anything that'll spoil me. Please consider PM'ing me if you've got a burning desire to reply to or refute with great anger anything I've said. Or not. Again, I don't care. I've got a really cool game to get back to.

 

[Zeriel]

Haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'm going to mention the most exploitive thing I've seen in this game:

There's nothing stopping you from meta-gaming encounters that you see coming either from Danger Sense, visual cues (i.e you actually see their creature models ahead), or just reloading a saved game. There's additionally nothing stopping you from putting up 15 buffs in a row, and resting afterward to hit full mana to fight them with Celestial Armor, Inner Fire, every spell ward, Fire Shield, Hour of Power, etc. So far, so normal. Cyclone is where things really get funny. It's an air spell that summons a tornado in the tile in front of your party that automatically seeks out enemies for 4 turns. There's no limit on the number of cyclones you can put up, however, and casting cyclone out of combat doesn't end the turn. The result is you can cast 3-4 cyclones, rest, cyclones move forward a tile, cast another 3-4 cyclones, and so on. By the time the first cyclones hit the enemies around the corner, there's another 6-8 barreling down on them.

If there's one thing I hate about MMXL it's this sort of encounter design, where fights boil down to preparation more than anything else. Even cyclone spam aside, Cel. Armor prebuffing is kind of mandatory for a lot of fights on Warrior.

 

[Bubbles]

Mods will fix it.

 

[GrimoireFTW]

It deals p. pathetic damage in my experience though. I think it's the worst you can do with expert warfare in a turn, between armor pen, taunt and the "silence".

2 magic
2 vitality

Oh man you'll regret this too. Enjoy casting 30 mana spells with 100 mana.

I mean spirit. Sorry.

why would you put perception on crusader and blade dancer, they are both melee classes and perception is for ranged damage.

Because perception increases all attack values and my crusader keeps missing.

meh IM sorry but perception on a crusader is just terrible... You need magic and spirit for light magic and mana.

 

[Zeriel]

Perception is okay if you get it from gear, but I would never invest points in it as a non-ranged character.

 

[GrimoireFTW]

also with blade dancer ive put all my points exclusively into might and destiny. Dosent really need vit seeing as he shouldn't be getting hit, and he wont with a good destiny and some points in dodge. my blade dancer hits so fucking hard its crazy, im able to beat some fights I shouldn't be able to because of him.

 

[Raghar]

Rest should end the cyclone.

 

[veryalien]

OK. I'm not touching this until someone has a list of primary stats put together. I'm not looking for exciting risky builds. I'm just looking for some basic types of builds for the classes.

This is why talent trees came into existence. You can quickly put builds together with less degrees of gimpage.

 

[Decado]

If the thought of scary numbers and too much decision making is too rough for you, maybe you should fire up your copy Dragon Age 2.

 

[Monocause]

Haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'm going to mention the most exploitive thing I've seen in this game:

There's nothing stopping you from meta-gaming encounters that you see coming either from Danger Sense, visual cues (i.e you actually see their creature models ahead), or just reloading a saved game. There's additionally nothing stopping you from putting up 15 buffs in a row, and resting afterward to hit full mana to fight them with Celestial Armor, Inner Fire, every spell ward, Fire Shield, Hour of Power, etc. So far, so normal. Cyclone is where things really get funny. It's an air spell that summons a tornado in the tile in front of your party that automatically seeks out enemies for 4 turns. There's no limit on the number of cyclones you can put up, however, and casting cyclone out of combat doesn't end the turn. The result is you can cast 3-4 cyclones, rest, cyclones move forward a tile, cast another 3-4 cyclones, and so on. By the time the first cyclones hit the enemies around the corner, there's another 6-8 barreling down on them.

If there's one thing I hate about MMXL it's this sort of encounter design, where fights boil down to preparation more than anything else. Even cyclone spam aside, Cel. Armor prebuffing is kind of mandatory for a lot of fights on Warrior.

Fact: I'm halfway through act II on warrior now and I prebuffed only before boss fights. It's not encounter design, it's your fucking playstyle.

The thing I like about this game is that it forces you to adapt. If you keep trying the same strategy over and over again, unless it's exploits we're talking about, you'll first become inefficient and then the game slaps you in the face with a kind of an enemy that totally steamrolls you.

Also, a protip: seeing this thread I'm beginning to think that many people don't upgrade their weapons and armor at shops. Well, you don't need to do this but you definitely should do it, gear upgrades are often more important than skill training. That 4 damage of difference or 5 armor value may not seem much - but it does matter a lot.

 

[Zeriel]

Fact: I'm halfway through act II on warrior now and I prebuffed only before boss fights. It's not encounter design, it's your fucking playstyle.

The thing I like about this game is that it forces you to adapt. If you keep trying the same strategy over and over again, unless it's exploits we're talking about, you'll first become inefficient and then the game slaps you in the face with a kind of an enemy that totally steamrolls you.

Also, a protip: seeing this thread I'm beginning to think that many people don't upgrade their weapons and armor at shops. Well, you don't need to do this but you definitely should do it, gear upgrades are often more important than skill training. That 4 damage of difference or 5 armor value may not seem much - but it does matter a lot.

Well, of course you can always not do things that are much more efficient or offer huge advantages. Especially in games with no iron-man mode, pretty much any route can lead to victory, depending on how ballsy you feel like being. But I was mostly talking about boss fights in terms of mandatory--how else to look at encounters where the boss spawns out of thin air and gets an opening AoE salvo on you that does 90% of your HP without Celestial Armor?

Sidenote in case it's not clear: I actually enjoy games that promote or allow creative thinking like this, it's interesting to me to figure out little tricks and ways of going about combat, and I really enjoy that MMXL makes combat hard enough that you are motivated to try different approaches.

It's just probably less interesting for those who start playing months later and don't go through that process of learning first hand, but just read forum posts.

 

[veryalien]

If the thought of scary numbers and too much decision making is too rough for you, maybe you should fire up your copy Dragon Age 2.

I have an issue with five restarts trying to figure out wtf each class should be using as stats. It would have been easy to have a little note somewhere telling me "hey this class' primary attributes are: .. ... ... .. "

 

[Broseph]

If the thought of scary numbers and too much decision making is too rough for you, maybe you should fire up your copy Dragon Age 2.

I have an issue with five restarts trying to figure out wtf each class should be using as stats. It would have been easy to have a little note somewhere telling me "hey this class' primary attributes are: .. ... ... .. "

Did you also need help finding Caius Cosades?

 

[Zed]

Starting attributes is a decent enough indicator of what to spend points in.

 

[Zeriel]

Well, at least this serves as a reminder to us why most games are piss-poor easy. Even glorious Codexia is split down the middle when it encounters legitimate challenges.

 

[veryalien]

Starting attributes is a decent enough indicator of what to spend points in.

I'll have to look again. Thanks.

Honestly, even the original infinity engine games would tell you what primary stats are for specific classes.

 

[GlutenBurger]

I have an issue with five restarts trying to figure out wtf each class should be using as stats. It would have been easy to have a little note somewhere telling me "hey this class' primary attributes are: .. ... ... .. "

Click the "default" button when choosing stats to see what the developers consider the most important stats to pump for that class. Then tweak according to your intended build.

 

[Zeriel]

Starting attributes is a decent enough indicator of what to spend points in.

I'll have to look again. Thanks.

Honestly, even the original infinity engine games would tell you what primary stats are for specific classes.

I honestly found the stat system too straight-forward. You start the game. You level up once. You mouse over the stats, and it shows you exactly what effect they have, for all characters. From there it's a really, really simple leap of logic to figure out what you want to invest in.

Skills are the same way, the only real complaint I can level at the game is that if a skill isn't available to your class, you can't see information on it.

 

[Stabwound]

Haven't seen it mentioned yet, so I'm going to mention the most exploitive thing I've seen in this game:

There's nothing stopping you from meta-gaming encounters that you see coming either from Danger Sense, visual cues (i.e you actually see their creature models ahead), or just reloading a saved game. There's additionally nothing stopping you from putting up 15 buffs in a row, and resting afterward to hit full mana to fight them with Celestial Armor, Inner Fire, every spell ward, Fire Shield, Hour of Power, etc. So far, so normal. Cyclone is where things really get funny. It's an air spell that summons a tornado in the tile in front of your party that automatically seeks out enemies for 4 turns. There's no limit on the number of cyclones you can put up, however, and casting cyclone out of combat doesn't end the turn. The result is you can cast 3-4 cyclones, rest, cyclones move forward a tile, cast another 3-4 cyclones, and so on. By the time the first cyclones hit the enemies around the corner, there's another 6-8 barreling down on them.

If there's one thing I hate about MMXL it's this sort of encounter design, where fights boil down to preparation more than anything else. Even cyclone spam aside, Cel. Armor prebuffing is kind of mandatory for a lot of fights on Warrior.

99% of this could be said the same of earlier MM games. Nothing like setting LLoyd's Beacons near the wells that give temp +50 characater levels, blessings, stats etc and then warping to enemies. MM games are easy to break with meta knowledge, and it's up to the player to not be a fuckhead and avoid doing that.

Earlier games had shit like shooting arrows 1 at a time at enemies that can't hit you back, comparable to the cyclone thing, too. Plus the aforementioned well-buffing shit, too. MM games are made to break and it's hard to avoid that.

This is just nonsense. The game isn't that bad, and using cheese tactics has always been possible in M&M. Even the fucking cuisinart battle from MM2 is there to cheese if you feel like it.

 

[Decado]

If the thought of scary numbers and too much decision making is too rough for you, maybe you should fire up your copy Dragon Age 2.

I have an issue with five restarts trying to figure out wtf each class should be using as stats. It would have been easy to have a little note somewhere telling me "hey this class' primary attributes are: .. ... ... .. "

It is pretty self explanatory. The information provided with the game is thin, and they could have done a better job of telling people some stuff, but the skill/stat descriptions are clear in what they do. If you've played the game for 15 minutes, you would know this.

If you hover your mouse pointer over Might it will tell you what Might does. If you are rolling a Dwarf Defender, might is important. If you are a freemage, might is not important. This is not fucking rocket science. The people making statements like "Why would you give a Crusader perception, that is for ranged damage!!" are simply failing to read the tool tips that quite literally pop up in your goddamn face. Most of the confusion around attributes is because dudes are not reading. There is no cure for that kind of laziness, except for maybe a blow to the head. Or ass.

Anyways, a brief reading of the skills/stats should tell you what you need to concentrate on for each class, within acceptable levels of variation, of course. Part of the fun of games like these is figuring out the skill system, and learning through experience the best ways to do things. If you want everything to be perfect the first time through, and if you want your hand held, you'd best wait a few weeks until the various walkthroughs and guides are released. Meanwhile the rest of us will be enjoying the challenge.

tl;dr it is not that fucking bad, just nut up and do it.

 

[veryalien]

I have an issue with five restarts trying to figure out wtf each class should be using as stats. It would have been easy to have a little note somewhere telling me "hey this class' primary attributes are: .. ... ... .. "

Click the "default" button when choosing stats to see what the developers consider the most important stats to pump for that class. Then tweak according to your intended build.

OK this is good. Only now for my Crusader apparently Destiny and Vitality are main stats. SO CONFUSED

Yep same for Blade Dancer. Not might at all...

EDIT 2:

Free mage is Magic, Destiny, and Spirit

Druid is Magic Spirit (only one that I think is right).

 

[Zed]

Probably because they intend for the Crusader to be a tank when people want to play it as some sort of cleric.