Might and Magic Might & Magic X - Legacy

[Broseph]

Probably because they intend for the Crusader to be a tank when people want to play it as some sort of cleric.

You can actually do both at the same time fairly well. Obviously his mana pool will be more limited than a dedicated healer but his advantage is that he won't go down easily so he'll almost always be around to save your asses.

 

[veryalien]

I'm shelfing this for a couple of weeks and check back on wikis to see if anyone put together builds that make sense.

 

[Excidium]

Why would you want destiny on a tank anyway. if you're a tank you don't need to evade shit, just eat the hits with your heavy armor/ high hp instead of relying on the RNG. if I could respec I'd take all points I put into shield from my defender and put them somewhere else like endurance.

The stat system is just shit imo, I'm not very fond of how it works.

 

[veryalien]

Why would you want destiny on a tank anyway. if you're a tank you don't need to evade shit, just eat the hits with your heavy armor/hp.

The stat system is just shit imo, I'm not very fond of how it works.

Just to be clear the stats I posted were up by using the "default" button on the stat screen at char creation.

Crusader: Destiny, and Vitality.
Blade Dancer: Destiny and Vitality.
Free Mage: Destiny, Magic, Spirit.
Druid: Magic Spirit.

That's what the game seems to recommend at chargen.

 

[Excidium]

That's p. awful.

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah, I don't get the question, honestly. The developers didn't include some secret cheat code in the default stats, and what is a good stat is not hard to figure out. Melee character? Pump might. Spellcaster? Pump Magic with the very occasional point in spirit and vitality so you don't get one shot. Always max weapon skills/main magic skill first. Wow, such complex, much need for guide.

 

[veryalien]

Yeah, I don't get the question, honestly. The developers didn't include some secret cheat code in the default stats, and what is a good stat is not hard to figure out. Melee character? Pump might. Spellcaster? Pump Magic with the very occasional point in spirit and vitality so you don't get one shot. Always max weapon skills/main magic skill first. Wow, such complex, much need for guide.

If this is the case, and it really is this simple, why is the default button a newb would use give them the completely wrong stats?

 

[Zeriel]

Because developers always do that shit? Whether to promote some "intended" notion of "this is what the character is about" LARPing or because the developer who assigned the stats doesn't know better/doesn't care.

I don't doubt Julien could powergame the shit out of this game, but most developers are never particularly good at games, because they spend all day making them, not playing them.

Also, "maximum efficiency" always looks silly. In Path of Exile, "best build" for every character on hardcore basically amounts to "pick every HP node first, ignore everything else", but if the class writeups said "LOLOL JUST PICK HP AND NOTHING ELSE" it would look hella retarded to a new player.

 

[Excidium]

Because devs are dumb. Default parties are generally not well optmized.

 

[Zed]

I'm shelfing this for a couple of weeks and check back on wikis to see if anyone put together builds that make sense.

Alright then.

Here are my characters and a guide to how I played them.

Savat (short for heavy metal band Savatage, I somehow forgot the last 3 letters)
the male Elf Druid, later Druid Elder

Start with Primordial and Earth. Try to get Primordial to Expert as soon as possible to save cash (you can identify items yourself rather than having to pay 300 gold per item) so you can instead spend it on trainers and mana potions.

Earth is the best school of magic in the game in my opinion. Late-game Regeneration in combination with Elder Druid's Nurture will make most encounters a breeze simply because it will bring back any knocked out characters while always topping up the rest. Druids also have Stone Skin, granting the entire party armor equal to that of a plate mail. Early game, I found Remove Poison to be very useful as well.

My other school of choice was water, just to give him some offensive capabilities. In hindsight this doesn't really matter. You could stick to just Earth, because Earth also grants some decent damage-dealing stuff.

Get Mysticism up for some sweet mana, and use Magical Foci weapons.

You will spend most turns casting Regeneration.

I focused on Spirit first to get a better mana pool so that resting is more efficient and you won't have to mana pot as much. First few levels were all Spirit and perhaps a few points in Vitality. Druids have mysticism which increases mana on a percentage-basis, so I later transitioned out of Spirit and focused on Magic. My end-game attributes were 80 Magic, 45 Vitality, 45 Spirit. Rest were base values.


Garm (famous norwegian metal vocalist)
the male Orc Barbarian, later Warmonger

This character could probably be replaced with any other class, as I never really found a good two-handed mace and he never really contributed much damage. His Challenge ability (aka taunt) from Warfare saved me a few times.

Very simple character. Just focus maces, two-handed, warfare and later endurance.

Stats in the end were 107 Might, 20 Perception, 45 Destiny, 45 Vitality.


Ilithia (who the fuck knows)
the female Elf Blade dancer, later Blademaster

Main damage-dealer. You can probably go for daggers with similar result, but I never found any good daggers so I'm glad I went swords.
Swords, dual-wield, warfare and endurance were the main skills. I figured I wouldn't need dodge because I spend so much in Destiny for crit (which also grants evasion).
This character is actually more efficient with warfare abilities than the Barbarian because stuff will hit more often. I mostly just used auto-attacks. Blademaster's area-of-effect damage ability was rarely used as it cost too much mana.

Stats were 83 Might, 52 Destiny, 28 Vitality. I started pumping Destiny with a ratio of 1 might, 2 destiny, 1 vitality every level, then switched to just pumping up might and destiny and later just might.
The Blademaster's passive Cleave ability can be used to dispatch several low HP enemies in a single turn. This character really wrecks faces.


Dhurm (sounded dwarfish, I thought)
the male Dwarf Runepriest, later Runelord

Early game, this is your primary damage-dealer. He will essentially solo the bosses and hard encounters of Act 1 while being healed by the druid. Blade dancer will surpass his damage output in mid-Act 2 or somewhere around then.

This character had two primary roles: Heavy damage crits with Firebolt, and Celestial shield. Celestial shield is very important for this party, and during challenging encounters this will actually be the Runepriest's primary function.

I GM'd Magical Focus and Fire Magic. I only had Light on expert level, even though Celestial shield was so important. Probably because I was focusing on fire damage output. In hindsight, I would max Light and Fire as primary skills. I also maxed (mastered) Mysticism for the mana.
Runelord's special active ability was a disappointment. The fire rune ability will hurt you more than the enemies. Perhaps it synergises better with another party, but not this one.

Stats were similar to the Druid's: 87 Magic, 40 Vitality, 40 Spirit. I also focused on Spirit first and later transitioned into Magic. Note that Dwarves get more HP per Vitality, so I intentionally let it slack behind up until mid-game.


A turn of combat with a more challenging encounter often went something like this:

Pre-buff resistances, if in combat only use if enemies are 2-3 grid away. When enemies are 1 grid away, cast Celestial shield with Runepriest, and if it's Boss or something similar, pre-cast Nourish (if you got Elder Druid – else pre-cast Regeneration).
First round cast poison cloud with druid, get armor debuff up with either fighter, cast Firebolt (or Fireball if it's a cluster of enemies) with Runepriest. If fire is resisted, tell your dwarf to fuck off and only use him for celestial shield for the rest of the fight (or perhaps see if offensive light spells work).
Second round, if Earth is highly skilled, cast the 50% armor reduction (acid splash?), else keep healing if needed. Rest just regularly attack (or taunt if needed) and cast fireball or whatever.
Repeat and refresh buffs. Keep Regeneration up at all time and remember it's not just a heal over time spell but also a direct party-wide heal so you can cast it for a burst heal as well.

This rotation with these characters will beat anything in the game on Warrior difficulty. The druid is by far the most vital character, with the blade dancer being the one actually killing stuff.


TL;DR:
Have a Druid with Earth and Mysticism, and a Blade dancer going for Swords and Dual wield. The two other characters can be whatever as long as you build the Druid to be a Regen/Nurture-spamming bot. (EDIT: oh an have Celestial armor on one of the other characters)

 

[Zeriel]

Only thing I'd add (besides polemic about why daggers are bestbestbest) to Zed's excellent post is something on Celestial Armor.

Think of Celestial Armor as the best heal in the game. It's (effectively) a heal that will never overheal. This makes it incredibly efficient in mana spent per health healed. Every point of damage it absorbs is healing you don't have to do. You can always put it up, or refresh it to prevent one shots. As a result, it makes the actual healing spells Light has seem really janky and hard to use. Any damage that gets through Celestial Armor spam is easier to tick with passive regeneration than big, chunky Light heal spells.

 

[veryalien]

I don't doubt Julien could powergame the shit out of this game, but most developers are never particularly good at games, because they spend all day making them, not playing them.

Sorry but this is a not very intelligent way to think of things. Developers aren't 'bad' at the games they make. At least not if they're making half decent games.

Also, "maximum efficiency" always looks silly. In Path of Exile, "best build" for every character on hardcore basically amounts to "pick every HP node first, ignore everything else", but if the class writeups said "LOLOL JUST PICK HP AND NOTHING ELSE" it would look hella retarded to a new player.

I agree. I'm not looking for min-max. I was looking for some indication on, generally, the default build -- what the class is basically intended to do. Specifically if each level I took four stat points and split them according to a straight forward ratio where would they go?

It's not so hard. Shit man, games like Bard's Tale had random stat gains when you level. Even back in the day it was either automated, or you were given a clear indication that certain builds need certain stats.

 

[Zeriel]

I can give you lots of exact anecdotes about developers being bad at games if you like, but you could also just take my word that it's self-evident that people who spend all day at a job making games are not as good as people spending 10 hours a day playing them.

Anyway, Zed nailed it. I just find it bewildering that people didn't notice when they hover over the stats what's good and what's bad. And sort of depressed, I guess, because it illustrates to me perfectly why we get so many games that don't even bother with systems with any complexity.

 

[Decado]

I just don't get how you'd need to restart the game five times to figure this shit out. Once? Sure. Twice? Alright I guess. Five times? How do you walk around without running into inanimate objects all day long? Oh well, whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[veryalien]

I just don't get how you'd need to restart the game five times to figure this shit out. Once? Sure. Twice? Alright I guess. Five times? How do you walk around without running into inanimate objects all day long? Oh well, whatever floats your boat I guess.

Actually I was doing fine by the third game I'd say. I just never felt right about my stat choices.

 

[Zed]

The game is hard, it will never feel right :D

 

[Aeschylus]

Just picked this up. Man, I forgot how much I loved these games. It's pretty great so far -- decently challenging, with plenty of party/build options, and lots of exploration to be done.

 

[Damned Registrations]

So I've gotten through the lighthouse and thief den shit now with my new party. 1 berserker and 3 rune priests. Been a total cakewalk so far, only time I had any trouble was a stupid elite priestess crit someone for 120 and killed them. Not paying for that shit, just reloaded and raped the second time without any RNG garbage.

Ironically, it's my berserker thats the frail one of the group, I dumped all his points into might and perception (more for the hidden passage checks than accuracy, weapon skill + two hand skill is plenty of attack value) so he's a glass cannon. But he hits a lot harder than the blade dancer did, even after I got her the pair of enchanted daggers. Was hitting for like 40+ right from level 2, at this point he's 60+ and very accurate. Blocks are annoying but I just use the priests to fish for blocks by attacking first. Most enemies I just melee spam and cast regen occasionally. With 3 priests with expert in the mana giving thing, mana isn't an issue at all. Bosses get broiled with firebolts. Mamushi was a joke.

Grandmaster perk for two handed weapons is that they can't be blocked ever, so I think I made the right choice for a single melee class. Maybe if you were going with 2 melee chars I'd make them both blade dancers and hope agony works out or something. And rune priests just have a retardedly good selection of spells, with light, fire, prime, earth and air all grand masterable. I couldn't care less about dark. Water is probably useful but I doubt it's necessary. Plus they're all dwarves so they get 4hp per vit, making them very tanky without actually having any armor or evade or even shields yet.

I'm continually dissapointed by all the fucking immunities in this game though. 'Mind effects' includes shit like taunt and the counter magic spell. What the fuck would I want to use those skills on except for bosses or mages? I mean, the large immunities make sense, since otherwise you'd just infinitely root/knockback an enemy. But even then, why not make them like 75% resistances instead of total immunities?

Also, getting early advantages in this really snowballs. The sooner you get identify the sooner you stop paying out the nose for magic items (most of which are utter shit anyways) which leaves more gold for upgrading skills and buying spells. With better skills and spells, you end fights more easily, and spend less gold on potions and supplies. Which gives you even MORE fucking gold for your skills. With 3 priests in the party I'm usually resting not because I'm low on mana or health, but because my party is getting weak from running around without resting for 24+ hours. Though occasionally I get impatient and just firebolt spam and rest afterwards. It's not like resting is expensive anyways.

 

[sser]

I think the game kinda reverses the trope of mages being late bloomers. Early on, my mages (Shaman, Scout) were the ones doing most of the damage while my melee guys (Crusader, Bladedancer) were pillowpunchers.

Now, later in the game, my Shaman is more utility based (though Cyclone + Chain Lightning is a super effective combo) and the rest of the party is bashing nerds with their melee weapons.

Also, I delved into the Paladin questline and for some reason an enemy in those crypt/ruins hit my Bladedancer for a whopping 338 damage. It was like a crit + many, many added attacks. I'm sure there's much heavier blows out there but damn it sure seemed like a lot for the place where it happened.

Fire Key boss thing...

Spoiler

I don't mean the Fire Shard boss himself, which aced my team repeatedly with uber fireballs, but instead the crystal spider that was guarding the fire key. Was he bugged? At first he seemed extremely difficult, nigh impossible, but he never moved to face my team. Instead, he'd just sit there and every so often teleport around the room. If he trapped me in a crystal, I'd just slowly fight my way out and go back to him all buffed up again. It turned a seemingly impossible fight into a cake walk.

 

[funkadelik]

You guys are really worrying about stats a lot. Just don't dump stats into shit that makes zero sense, like might into a caster, or magic into a barbarian. It's not that hard folks. It's much more based on how you use the abilities each character has for effective crowd and boss control. If you're having a really rough time, you are probably in a zone that you aren't intended to be in. If you're having lots of trouble in the first act, I suggest you rethink what genre of games you ought be playing.

 

[Kruno]

I've been adding stats adhoc and have had no issues. The stat system in this game is very straight forward.

My levelling in this game goes like this:
A char gets 1 hit too frequently = pump vitality.

Eating up mana potions during normal fights = pump spirit.

Need to hit more often = Mitigate armour penalty/increase sword skills. I have not touched perception with any character, it has been unnecessary. Also there are several spells that reduce evasion on enemies.

Need more crits/evasion = Pump Destiny

Don't have any special requirement for the moment = Pump base state (might/magic)

I don't understand how anyone can fuck this up.

 

[Lhynn]

Is there a place where i can read up all the skills and their effects? creating different parties to see it is just fucking stupid, not to mention time consuming.

 

[Excidium]

You can ask on this thread.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Weapon skill levels don't give multiple strikes...at least mace and axe don't.

Dagger gets multiple strikes at higher levels.

 

[Excidium]

Swords too?