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Might and Magic Might & Magic X - Legacy

Donaroriak

Augur
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
101
Project: Eternity
Just wanted to pop in to say that I am having a lot of fun, and that despite the flaws this kind of oldskool gameplay is quote refreshing.
Also, loving the silly humor and pop references shining through the BSB setting: Lost lambs -> Star Wars, Star Trek and Alien; The Crag -> Monkey Island (I'm selling these fine leather armors... ;))
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,874
Divinity: Original Sin
Spell casters have always been weak in M&M. In the old games you rolled for stats. Here you allocate them manually. So if you pump only spirit and magic for your casters, you can make them hard hitting glass cannons that go down easily. But if you boost Vitality they gain survivability.
By weak do you mean they go down quickly? because in terms of raw power and damage they dish out casters followed the traditional RPG/D&D curve, in that by the end they were portable black holes capable of annihilating entire species just by looking at them. This was particularly pronounced in 6-7 but it was also there in 1-5. I think the only game that escapes this is 8, but that's only because dragons are so hilarious OP.

Yes this does pose a problem if you fight way out of your league though, in that casting these protection spells only delays the inevitable.
I would argue this is as it should be. A novice level spell you cast with a level 2 party should NOT allow you to faceroll a enemy meant for a level 20 party.

Another thing I dislike is that there is no cap to attributes. There should be.
MM1-5 had a cap attribute at 255, which was so high you were unlikely to see it without cheesing the fuck out of the game (and in fact I think only MM2's cheeses would allow you to get anywhere close - in MM1 and MM4 it was most certainly impossible to get there without hex editing). I don't remember if MM6-8 had the soft cap still at 255, though I recall that temporary boosts could take you above that cap. Well, you could argue that MM2 had no cap, since going over 255 would reset the attribute to 0 :troll:
Generally, I go with "if the previous games did it and it didn't break them then I don't see the problem" with respect to whether elements in MMX should be limited or removed. Of course, adding things that improve the game (such as bringing the skills from MM6-8 into the MM3-5 formula) is always welcome.

However, elements were borrowed from all M&Ms. Such as the ability to select skills, a larger overland mass, safe towns (with some exceptions like the spiders), more and varied spells
Overland mass was huge in WOX, and in fact I'd argue that it's the largest game in the series, with only MM6 being a possible contender. And the game with the biggest spell variety and selection is MM3. That said, although some elements were indeed borrowed from later M&Ms, the framework was still WOX, and it shows. Though adding some of these elements, especially the skills, was a VERY nice feature and the best example of how you can have the best of both worlds.

Like you could not modify your starting party apart from race and class, as in the Xeen series?
MM1-5 all allowed you to roll for attributes, and even had a very nice option to swap 2 attributes.

Please finish the game before writing your review
:hmmm:

There goes my master plan of writing a review after playing the game for 30 minutes and of using it to get a position at PC Gamer.

On a more serious note, yeah, the game does improve significantlyi n acts 2 ad 3.
 

groke

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
2,395
Location
SAVE THIS CHARACTER? NO.
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera BattleTech I'm very into cock and ball torture
I hope next time Limbic/Ubi has the sense to keep their banal fiction the fuck out of my dungeon crawling.

Guys, where is the deluxe edition dungeon?

I'm pretty sure there isn't one, deluxe edition gets you the first dlc (which is assumedly going to be the "Limbo" dungeon) for free when/if it's released.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,420
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
I hope next time Limbic/Ubi has the sense to keep their banal fiction the fuck out of my dungeon crawling.

Guys, where is the deluxe edition dungeon?

I'm pretty sure there isn't one, deluxe edition gets you the first dlc (which is assumedly going to be the "Limbo" dungeon) for free when/if it's released.

On top of the free DLC there should be a "Dream Shard" dungeon that you probably unlock with the dream shard you found at the Tomb. I would venture to guess it's linked somehow with that old crone in the inn outside Karthal and the non-interactive entrance nearby.
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
I think the only game that escapes this is 8, but that's only because dragons are so hilarious OP.

Liches are much more powerful than Dragons. Dragons are tankier, true, but that's their only advantage - dragons' actual damage dealing capability is kinda meh because of their slow recovery time and, unlike liches, they can't do crap like healing an entire party with souldrinker or damaging all enemies on the map with armageddon. In fact, late game, dragons are not even as powerful as properly built dark elves.

I don't remember if MM6-8 had the soft cap still at 255, though I recall that temporary boosts could take you above that cap.

They was capped at 500, but in a weird way - you can increase the stat further, but you won't get benefits out of doing so. And, actually, you're kinda encouraged to reach that cap because the increase from 350 to 400 gives you +5 to the relevant stat effect and 400 to 500 gives another +5. Mostly irrelevant and unreachable, but that can be important in singleton playthroughs.
 
Unwanted

Captain Crusade

Andhaira
Andhaira
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
69
Location
The (Un)Holy Land of the RPGCodex
Spell casters have always been weak in M&M. In the old games you rolled for stats. Here you allocate them manually. So if you pump only spirit and magic for your casters, you can make them hard hitting glass cannons that go down easily. But if you boost Vitality they gain survivability.
By weak do you mean they go down quickly? because in terms of raw power and damage they dish out casters followed the traditional RPG/D&D curve, in that by the end they were portable black holes capable of annihilating entire species just by looking at them. This was particularly pronounced in 6-7 but it was also there in 1-5. I think the only game that escapes this is 8, but that's only because dragons are so hilarious OP.

Yes this does pose a problem if you fight way out of your league though, in that casting these protection spells only delays the inevitable.
I would argue this is as it should be. A novice level spell you cast with a level 2 party should NOT allow you to faceroll a enemy meant for a level 20 party.

Another thing I dislike is that there is no cap to attributes. There should be.
MM1-5 had a cap attribute at 255, which was so high you were unlikely to see it without cheesing the fuck out of the game (and in fact I think only MM2's cheeses would allow you to get anywhere close - in MM1 and MM4 it was most certainly impossible to get there without hex editing). I don't remember if MM6-8 had the soft cap still at 255, though I recall that temporary boosts could take you above that cap. Well, you could argue that MM2 had no cap, since going over 255 would reset the attribute to 0 :troll:
Generally, I go with "if the previous games did it and it didn't break them then I don't see the problem" with respect to whether elements in MMX should be limited or removed. Of course, adding things that improve the game (such as bringing the skills from MM6-8 into the MM3-5 formula) is always welcome.

However, elements were borrowed from all M&Ms. Such as the ability to select skills, a larger overland mass, safe towns (with some exceptions like the spiders), more and varied spells
Overland mass was huge in WOX, and in fact I'd argue that it's the largest game in the series, with only MM6 being a possible contender. And the game with the biggest spell variety and selection is MM3. That said, although some elements were indeed borrowed from later M&Ms, the framework was still WOX, and it shows. Though adding some of these elements, especially the skills, was a VERY nice feature and the best example of how you can have the best of both worlds.

Like you could not modify your starting party apart from race and class, as in the Xeen series?
MM1-5 all allowed you to roll for attributes, and even had a very nice option to swap 2 attributes.

Please finish the game before writing your review
:hmmm:

There goes my master plan of writing a review after playing the game for 30 minutes and of using it to get a position at PC Gamer.

On a more serious note, yeah, the game does improve significantlyi n acts 2 ad 3.

:bro:

Looking forward to your review. Any chance you could make both a spoiler free review and a spoiler review? Because I have stopped playing the game in Act 2 temporarily until they release a patch. :P
 
Unwanted

Captain Crusade

Andhaira
Andhaira
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
69
Location
The (Un)Holy Land of the RPGCodex
so my game is broken after 57 hours played!

I have the bug where exiting a city places you in combat even though there are no enemies nearby. cant reenter city, talk to anyone, use anything, etc. basically the game places you in combat indefinitely with nothing to fight. dosent matter what city you exit from the result is always the same. I have had no respawns and my world map should pretty much be clear of all enemies. Now from what I have read there may be a monster somewhere on the map that im locked in combat with for whatever reason and I can possibly find them, but I am not willing to walk step by step all over the world map to try to find this enemy that may or may not exist. It is just too much to ask for. Oh well guess its time to hang it up, game was no longer challenging anyways, and with 400k gold with nothing to spend it on.

Either wait for a patch or, better yet IMO, just try to remember where you last cast the Loyds Beacon spell and walk there step by step and kill the monster there. Or just reload from a previous save.

Your hours played is much higher than average, most people capped at around 40 hours. Did you leave the game running while doing something else?
 

GrimoireFTW

Learned
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
192
so my game is broken after 57 hours played!

I have the bug where exiting a city places you in combat even though there are no enemies nearby. cant reenter city, talk to anyone, use anything, etc. basically the game places you in combat indefinitely with nothing to fight. dosent matter what city you exit from the result is always the same. I have had no respawns and my world map should pretty much be clear of all enemies. Now from what I have read there may be a monster somewhere on the map that im locked in combat with for whatever reason and I can possibly find them, but I am not willing to walk step by step all over the world map to try to find this enemy that may or may not exist. It is just too much to ask for. Oh well guess its time to hang it up, game was no longer challenging anyways, and with 400k gold with nothing to spend it on.

Either wait for a patch or, better yet IMO, just try to remember where you last cast the Loyds Beacon spell and walk there step by step and kill the monster there. Or just reload from a previous save.

Your hours played is much higher than average, most people capped at around 40 hours. Did you leave the game running while doing something else?


not rlly I just am kind of OCD and need to uncover every tile, and explore every nook and cranny. I haven't even finished act III and I have all 4 classes promoted and all the blessing from the elemental forge except the light one. I remember using spirit beacon after I cleared sudgerd to ggo back to karthal, then traveled to the crag for archmage promotion. it happened after that, yet im positive there were no more creatures to figh tin vaynr range cause I explored every tile and cleared everything before I ported out..... oh well
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,420
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
I remember using spirit beacon after I cleared sudgerd to ggo back to karthal, then traveled to the crag for archmage promotion. it happened after that, yet im positive there were no more creatures to figh tin vaynr range cause I explored every tile and cleared everything before I ported out..... oh well

Go back and clear the whole mountain area. The second time I got this bug I had also the entire Vantyr range cleared but when I went back, it was repopulated again.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,079
Location
Platypus Planet
So apparently the first time you report back to Jassad after filling up 10 monsters he should give you a Relic Dagger as a reward, but due to a bug he doesn't. But you can go edit the files to fix this. The Dagger had some nice stats and would've been a nice addition for my BD.
 

Arkeus

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,406
So apparently the first time you report back to Jassad after filling up 10 monsters he should give you a Relic Dagger as a reward, but due to a bug he doesn't. But you can go edit the files to fix this. The Dagger had some nice stats and would've been a nice addition for my BD.
Goddamit. So that's where the relic dagger was :(
 

Eyeball

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,541
Guys. This is the most crazily addictive video game I've played in bloody years. 2014 really needs to put out some awesome games or the GOTY 2014 is already decided.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,420
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Guys. This is the most crazily addictive video game I've played in bloody years. 2014 really needs to put out some awesome games or the GOTY 2014 is already decided.

Heh, now hold your horses, there's still W2 and D:OS incoming and maybe even Grimoire (I know).

But I agree the game's great and it has even greater potential. Once the bugs are squashed, performance smoothed out and the content rebalanced and expanded, this will be another classic.

It's a crazy thought but this is really the first proper, full blooded, epic RPG in way over a decade (I think Wizards&Warriors was the last of the Golden Age).

EDIT: stupid me, W8 was released a year later.
 
Last edited:

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,593
MMXL is special to me precisely because it's a different sort of game from all the Infinity Engine successors. While I'm pretty sure D:OS will be great, it is less of a resurgence of something lost and forgotten.
 

undecaf

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
3,517
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
At least we can say 2014 got one hell of a kickstart. Makes the whole year already a notch better than several previous ones even if the rest ends up more or less disappointing.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
After playing Act 2 a bit and getting various issues with performance and quests I've decided to give the game it's Paradox-time and wait a year or so until it will be polished & expanded. While I like the gameplay, the state at which game was "released" is not great, and it's a shame cause I know it turns off potential customers to make genre more popular.

Aside from fixing bugs and performance, I hope for an expanded journal on the level of older M&M's, with rumors and skill teachers being written into it.
I'd also like a Grimoire style automatic travel between tiles using minimap which would help a lot with backtracking.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,874
Divinity: Original Sin
Aside from fixing bugs and performance, I hope for an expanded journal on the level of older M&M's, with rumors and skill teachers being written into it.
I actually like the absence of those. Sure MM6-8 (or did they start it with 7?) had pretty detailed autonotes, but I haven't had to actually take out a notepad (not a post-it) to jot down notes since.... Lazarus I think.

At this point my only major issues with the game are the loading times (which wouldn't even be one if the game continued loading when you alt-tab) and the fact you cannot scroll the fucking map, or zoom it out, or jump to another section, or anything. It's unfortunate too because all of the game's other issues stem from these two, and they seem like pretty easy issues to fix.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
At this point my only major issues with the game are the loading times (which wouldn't even be one if the game continued loading when you alt-tab) and the fact you cannot scroll the fucking map
Better map but not better journal? You are a bit inconsistent in being old-school :M
 

groke

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
2,395
Location
SAVE THIS CHARACTER? NO.
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera BattleTech I'm very into cock and ball torture
I couldn't care less about not being able to move the map (the world isn't so large as to be confusing/couldn't move the map in XEEN, anyway) but HOLY FUCKING SHIT LIMBIC why on earth is the map so unreadable in places like Sacred Grove? This is like not letting the player read the spellbook at night because hurr durr it's dark.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,079
Location
Platypus Planet
So I rerolled a new party: Runepriest (Fire, Light), Druid (Earth, Primordial), Barbarian (2h and Mace) and Defender (Axes, Shields, Warfare). All I can say is wow I sure am missing that sweet, sweet BD. But I forced myself to try something different this time. I know Warfare is here to give melee some flavor and skills to use so that Magic Users don't hog all the glory, but it's kinda bland and meh when you have two pure melee guys. And I honestly think BD benefits the most from it. He could easily shatter anyone, but now I find myself wasting two attacks just to Shatter enemies because of blocks. Gotta level up that Two-Handed skill fast to avoid this problem.

Also, does anyone happen to know what stats the Thunderstaff (Relic weapon that you get with uplay points) will get?
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
Thunderstaff is an air skill booster with lots of +air damage and an AoE on its auto attack. About equivalent to the stuff you find at level 25+
 

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