Pathfinder Monks: A Guide to Punching!

[Pink Eye]

Any gear I should make a beeline for during any specific chapter? I just found some +4 bracers during the troll act.

Maybe a recommended gear update? (I'm gonna try not to cheese and get the stuff from the lich straight away.)

Explore! Explore! EXPLORE! Most of the gear is scattered all over the world map. Most of the things that can be bought can be found by exploring.

 

[Pink Eye]

Someone asked me to cover sensei. I can not do that. I consider the subclass to be the weakest of the bunch. You're giving up flurry of blows, bonus feats(You're only getting two bonus feats, instead of the normal 6), and evasion. There is more to say about the subclass. But in short, I don't like it. It's giving up being a martial to be a support. Which is fine, if that's what you want, but other classes can do what the sensei does, and better.

 

[Desiderius]

Someone asked me to cover sensei. I can not do that. I consider the subclass to be the weakest of the bunch. You're giving up flurry of blows, bonus feats(You're only getting two bonus feats, instead of the normal 6), and evasion. There is more to say about the subclass. But in short, I don't like it. It's giving up being a martial to be a support. Which is fine, if that's what you want, but other classes can do what the sensei does, and better.

Lulz. Incoming!

That was before I knew what I was doing damage-wise. Sensei playthrough coming up next. Frankly best build may actually be ranged using full BAB and WIS to AB to hit with Deadly Aim + Devourer of Metal on all your many iteratives. Then Spit Venom at bosses for no save Blind and ultra high DC poison.

 

[Pink Eye]

Okay. I stand corrected. Care to share your insight for the sensei? It seems like you're better equipped than I, to give advice. Desiderius

 

[Desiderius]

Okay. I stand corrected. Care to share your insight for the sensei? It seems like you're better equipped than I, to give advice. Desiderius

Just on Sensei. It lets you play without a Bard, which is huge value.

 

[amurath]

Someone asked me to cover sensei. I can not do that. I consider the subclass to be the weakest of the bunch. You're giving up flurry of blows, bonus feats(You're only getting two bonus feats, instead of the normal 6), and evasion. There is more to say about the subclass. But in short, I don't like it. It's giving up being a martial to be a support. Which is fine, if that's what you want, but other classes can do what the sensei does, and better.

Doesn't sensei get flurry at level 11? It's also not a bad dip for a solo playthrough since you get the equivalent of Inspire Courage, which stacks with most other bonuses.

 

[Pink Eye]

Someone asked me to cover sensei. I can not do that. I consider the subclass to be the weakest of the bunch. You're giving up flurry of blows, bonus feats(You're only getting two bonus feats, instead of the normal 6), and evasion. There is more to say about the subclass. But in short, I don't like it. It's giving up being a martial to be a support. Which is fine, if that's what you want, but other classes can do what the sensei does, and better.

Doesn't sensei get flurry at level 11? It's also not a bad dip for a solo playthrough since you get the equivalent of Inspire Courage, which stacks with most other bonuses.

>Doesn't sensei get flurry at level 11?
It does not. The subclass loses that ability entirely. Which is a pretty big deal for unarmed users.

 

[Desiderius]

Someone asked me to cover sensei. I can not do that. I consider the subclass to be the weakest of the bunch. You're giving up flurry of blows, bonus feats(You're only getting two bonus feats, instead of the normal 6), and evasion. There is more to say about the subclass. But in short, I don't like it. It's giving up being a martial to be a support. Which is fine, if that's what you want, but other classes can do what the sensei does, and better.

Doesn't sensei get flurry at level 11? It's also not a bad dip for a solo playthrough since you get the equivalent of Inspire Courage, which stacks with most other bonuses.

>Doesn't sensei get flurry at level 11?
It does not. The subclass loses that ability entirely. Which is a pretty big deal for unarmed users.

You're not supposed to I don't think, but you do get it.

For melee Sensei get Pounce via Pummeling and you're the best Tripper in the game with WIS to hit and Mass True Strike.

 

[Desiderius]

>Only recently I started to realise that vivisectionist is so strong that it's stupid, is there a single martial role he can't do ? I think you can even build him as an archer and it would be great.
Yeah, vivi is a meme for a reason in the build making circles for Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The class is stupid.

Not as good as it looks. Awful ranged.

 

[Desiderius]

Any gear I should make a beeline for during any specific chapter? I just found some +4 bracers during the troll act.

Maybe a recommended gear update? (I'm gonna try not to cheese and get the stuff from the lich straight away.)

Get your regions and artisans going ASAP and let the random love flow.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

As an April fools joke, they should remove Alchemist from the game and fix sneak attack mechanics to watch mass munchkin suicide wave around the world. :D

 

[Pink Eye]

As an April fools joke, they should remove Alchemist from the game and fix sneak attack mechanics to watch mass munchkin suicide wave around the world. :D

The "balanced rating" was not meant to insult your post, by the way. I was just amused by the thought of thinking that this was something that balance man would do.

 

[Desiderius]

And we have some Sensei results from respeccing my MC at lvl 11:

(1) Ranged isn't a thing since one of your best features, WIS to AB, doesn't work on non-Monk (i.e. all ranged) weapons.

Melee on the other hand is nuts:

As you can see four attacks unbuffed. One free Trip from Style strike with another coming from Pummeling Bully. But that's just gravy. CMB is base 19 unbuffed already with Fury's Fall to come. True Strike works with CMBs too.

So you can give out Evasion, Expeditious Retreat, or Disease Immunity for almost two hours for one Ki Point. Mass Barkskin is a huge convenience +5 at next level for party for two hours. One Ki Point.

Smilodon Pounce hits home with help from Mass True Strike

Spamming Ki Strike: Spit Venom kept the Linnorm Blind (no save)

The Bull Rush from Battering Blast brought to you by Mass True Strike. Kineticists can use Water to get Greater Bull Rush which triggers AoOs and pushes casters across the battlefield messing up their targeting/pushing them into pits etc...

If you want of group of combat maneuverers, Sensei can get you there.

 

[Pink Eye]

Desiderius Could you go over the specification on how to build a sensei for new players?

 

[Desiderius]

Here's what happened when the Sensei charged in (and Val Wild Shaped into a Shambling Mound):

Too bad Linnorm is immune to Prone. Val follows up with the Grapple!

Smilodon and Sensei just Pummeled that poor Unfair Linnorm to Death before Octavia could even get her spell off.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius Could you go over the specification on how to build a sensei for new players?

It's there in the picture, although I think I did it wrong. Since you're filling the Bard slot it's going to be tougher to get mobs Shaken so Shatter Defenses isn't as good. I'd go for the Trip Feats first instead so you can get Pummeling Bully (free Trip).

 

[Haplo]

>Only recently I started to realise that vivisectionist is so strong that it's stupid, is there a single martial role he can't do ? I think you can even build him as an archer and it would be great.
Yeah, vivi is a meme for a reason in the build making circles for Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The class is stupid.

Not as good as it looks. Awful ranged.

The class is pretty great at most roles... including ranged.

 

[Pink Eye]

>Only recently I started to realise that vivisectionist is so strong that it's stupid, is there a single martial role he can't do ? I think you can even build him as an archer and it would be great.
Yeah, vivi is a meme for a reason in the build making circles for Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The class is stupid.

Not as good as it looks. Awful ranged.

The class is pretty great at most roles... including ranged.

More over Ekun. 20 vivi archer will replace you.

 

[Desiderius]

More over Ekun. 20 vivi archer will replace you.

 

[Desiderius]

Vivi melee lacks Uncanny Dodge and Mirror Image.

Ranged wastes everything good about the class but is decent utility. I prefer Bombs.

3/4 no Vitals.

 

[Pink Eye]

After much deliberations. I think I've come up with a Sensei build. Ladies and Gentlemen. I give to you. The Wonder Punch!
This build is all about maximizing Vital Strike to its full potential; in order to deal the most amount of damage all in one singular punch! However, as you may have noticed. Why Vital Strike? In any other condition I would not recommend vital strike; this is because it cancels out flurry of blows. It's also sub optimal. Unarmed doesn't do enough damage to even justify investing the feats into it. However, since sensei doesn't get access to flurry of blows, you might as well build around that. (I am aware that there is a bug where the class still gets flurry of blows. I won't be exploiting that. Because it might get fixed in the future.)

Specifications of the build:
Race: Human
Class: 16 Sensei /4 Fighter
Alignment: Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil.
Stats:
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 11
INT 7
WIS 18
CHA 7

Class/Feat Progression:
Level 1 - Sensei - Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike), Deflect Arrows (Deflect Arrows is chosen because it's more optimal for the prologue. There are multiple archers in the prologue area. AC can easily be buffed with potions and spells. But being able to completely negate ranged users, is invaluable.) - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 2 - Sensei - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 3 - Sensei(It's very important to get three levels into monk as soon as you can. The reason being is due to KI Strike. The first KI Strike allows unarmed to be treated as magic for the purpose of bypassing Damage Reduction. Which is very important for unarmed users. Once you get three levels into monk, you can then start to multi class at level 4, if you wish.) - Feats: Dragon Style - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 4 + 1 CON - Fighter - Feats: Dodge(Dodge is chosen late because of several reasons 1)Sensei doesn't get an additional feat at level two. 2)Dragon Style is more important in order to increase unarmed damage) - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 5 - Fighter - Feats: Improved Initiative, Outflank (It should go without saying that fellow companions need to have Outflank. Either by level 5 or around level 6-8. You also need someone to be proficient in a high critical weapon in order to provoke Attack of Opportunities) - Skills: Perception, Mobility.

Level 6 - Sensei(You can go fighter or monk here. I like going monk for the KI Powers.) - KI Power: Barkskin - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 7 - Fighter - Feats: Dragon Ferocity - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 8 + 1 STR - Fighter - Feats: Vital Strike - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 9 - Sensei - Feats: Weapon Specialization(Unarmed) - Style Strike: Shattering Punch(This won't work with this build, because it requires flurry of blows. At least that's what it says. Maybe some Pathfinder expert can clue me on the interaction on style strike. As for the in game interpretation, some of the style strikes don't even work. But none of it matters, since Sensei doesn't get flurry.) - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 10 - Sensei - KI Power: True Strike - Skills: Perception, Mobility.

Level 11 - Sensei - Feats: Improved Vital Strike - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 12 + 1 STR - Sensei - KI Powers: Abundant Step - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 13 - Sensei - Feats: Improved Critical(Unarmed) - Style Strike: Hammerblow - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 14 - Sensei - KI Powers: Restoration - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 15 - Sensei - Feats: Critical Focus - Skills Perception, Mobility.

Level 16 + 1 STR - Sensei - KI Power: Diamond Body - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 17 - Sensei - Feats: Greater Vital Strike - Style Strike: Defensive Spin - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 18 - Sensei - KI Power: Diamond Soul - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 19 - Sensei - Skills: Perception, Mobility.
Level 20 + 1 STR - Sensei - Feats: Shake it Off - KI Power: (Pick whichever one you fancy. We already got the best ones) - Skills: Perception, Mobility.

Fun fact, insightful strike will get overrided if your strength bonus is higher than your WIS stat. For example:

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Screenshots of the build in action:
Level 1 to level 5:

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Mid level:

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High level:

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The build was okay. One punching shit was amusing. All in all, I had fun with it. Thanks to Desiderius. If it weren't for him, I'd have never tried the class. Glad I gave it a go, and had fun with it.

 

[Desiderius]

Why are you taking Dodge at all?

The strength of the class is that everything hinges on one stat - WIS. Start it at 20 and focus on it. This is your usual Monk shoehorned into the Sensei class - you're not taking advantage of the unique strengths of the class. For instance you're forcing Dragon here I think, though may be a better fit for the Vital Strike idea.

You are correct that Deflect Arrows is very solid.

Spit Venom is no save Blind + Poison vs save. Your to hit and DC should be through the roof if you focus on Sensei levels and WIS.

 

[Desiderius]

Next (and final unmodded) playthrough will be MC Sensei with all Combat Maneuver team. So we'll compare notes after that.

I guess the thinking is that Style Strikes only trigger on full attacks so you want to focus on getting full attacks so that means (a) no Vital Strike/Cleave and (b) Pounce to get full attack on Charge, which leads to Pummeling Style.

 

[Pink Eye]

I'll go back and try a different build. Thanks. I am so used to taking dodge. I'll try taking something else.

 

[Pink Eye]

Why are you taking Dodge at all?

The strength of the class is that everything hinges on one stat - WIS. Start it at 20 and focus on it. This is your usual Monk shoehorned into the Sensei class - you're not taking advantage of the unique strengths of the class. For instance you're forcing Dragon here I think, though may be a better fit for the Vital Strike idea.

You are correct that Deflect Arrows is very solid.

Spit Venom is no save Blind + Poison vs save. Your to hit and DC should be through the roof if you focus on Sensei levels and WIS.

I'll try out the pummeling style build. Get WIS to 20, and see how that goes.