Morrowind vs Neverwinter nights

[MerchantKing]

I'd love to hear more about how Neverwinter Night's six second rounds for combat makes it a terrible game.

It makes the game unnecessarily slow. However, when you pair it with the overall jankyness of the character controls, the shitty wheel menu, the fact that you really only directly control one character and if you have a henchmen they are a detriment to themselves even if you give them commands they do poorly in following them thanks to their AI, and with having to wait to cast and do other things OUTSIDE of combat based on that timer makes NWN absolute dogshit to play.

 

[Butter]

elder scrolls and nu fallout do objectively play better on a controller

Not a single game in the world plays objectively better on a controller. Not one.

Mostly true, but anything that involves driving plays better on a controller.

 

[JarlFrank]

I'd love to hear more about how Neverwinter Night's six second rounds for combat makes it a terrible game.

It makes the game unnecessarily slow. However, when you pair it with the overall jankyness of the character controls, the shitty wheel menu, the fact that you really only directly control one character and if you have a henchmen they are a detriment to themselves even if you give them commands they do poorly in following them thanks to their AI, and with having to wait to cast and do other things OUTSIDE of combat based on that timer makes NWN absolute dogshit to play.

I kinda liked A Dance With Rogues because it focuses on intrigue rather than combat (which is NWN's weakest element due to the issues you described).

But as you play a rogue, there's a couple of quests where you have to use thief skills like opening locks and disarming traps.

Remember how in Baldur's Gate those actions were pretty much instant?
In NWN you have to watch a 6 second timer go down every single time you use these skills.

Complete fucking trash, NWN has tedium hardcoded into its most basic gameplay systems so even good modules that should be fun to play become an absolute chore.

There are plenty of NWN user modules I appreciate for their design, but actually playing them is terrible. They would be excellent 10/10 games if they ran in any other engine than the irredeemable piece of shit that is NWN1.
But as is, their actual fun factor never manages to surpass a meager 4/10. That's how horrendously NWN plays. It manages to drag down absolute masterpiece 10/10 content like the Swordflight series to the gutter. Its very core is designed to be anti-fun.

 

[EtcEtcEtc]

elder scrolls and nu fallout do objectively play better on a controller

Not a single game in the world plays objectively better on a controller. Not one.

Every 2d platformer. Every fighting game?

 

[JarlFrank]

elder scrolls and nu fallout do objectively play better on a controller

Not a single game in the world plays objectively better on a controller. Not one.

Every 2d platformer. Every fighting game?

2D platformers objectively play best with keyboard only.
Same with fighting games.

 

[ind33d]

elder scrolls and nu fallout do objectively play better on a controller

Not a single game in the world plays objectively better on a controller. Not one.

Every 2d platformer. Every fighting game?

2D platformers objectively play best with keyboard only.
Same with fighting games.

fighting games on keyboard are cheating, hitbox enables illegal inputs

 

[janior]

both

 

[Laz Sundays]

Fighting games soushite platforms are indeed better on controller. But those are usually console exclusives or made primarily to be played on console using controller. Or on old arcade machine setup, I guess. This ain't a site dedicated to those games, so I agree on the M&KB superiority

 

[Laz Sundays]

Speaking of whitch, I have a weakness towards arcade issues of The Punisher and Caddillacs & Dinosaurs. To the point I'd call them ARPG without even blinking

 

[Laz Sundays]

I AM THE WHITE NICK FURY I HAVE THE POWER

 

[d1nolore]

Neverwinter Nights is also a butt ugly game, but it at least has a competent 3D engine that doesn't require a fog 3 inches from your character's face because Bioware programmers understood backface-culling, at least.

>NWN
>competent 3D engine

Bro the engine is barely 3D in practice, it's extremely blocky in layout and doesn't even support slanted floors and walls. Every angle is 90 degrees, hills are always separated from the lower level by a cliff rather than having smooth transitions, etc.

It's really, really bad for a 3D engine.

they have had these sort of tilesets for quite awhile.

 

[Gargaune]

>NWN
>competent 3D engine

Bro the engine is barely 3D in practice, it's extremely blocky in layout and doesn't even support slanted floors and walls. Every angle is 90 degrees, hills are always separated from the lower level by a cliff rather than having smooth transitions, etc.

It's really, really bad for a 3D engine.

they have had these sort of tilesets for quite awhile.

They've had sloped elevation since Hordes of the Underdark with the Frozen Wastes tileset. It's not actual heightmap terrain, but it was a nice cosmetic improvement over the prior "canyon" approach to elevation. Even at release, it was quickly apparent that BioWare had been unnecessarily conservative with the polycounts (maybe because they wanted to keep things low-end for online play, or maybe just because of the long 5-year dev cycle), so they gave themselves a higher budget for some bits and bobs that followed, like that tileset and the new HotU head parts. By 1.69, they'd also integrated the much more sophisticated Castle Exterior, Rural and Fort Interior tilesets which featured in the Wyvern Crown of Cormyr PM. And now the EE's also included a handful of superb community tilesets by Zwerkules which featured in Tyrants of the Moonsea.

As far as the engine itself is concerned, check out these example screenshots below from Merricksdad's Deep Caverns, Crumbling Crypt and Red Desert tilesets on the Vault. Normal and specular support is an EE feature, of course, but the geometry is perfectly fine on the DE.

As for the 90° layouts, it's not a technical constraint but a design factor in a platform purpose-built for solo content creation among its selling points. The Fort Interior tileset actually does have oblique angle connectors, but it's also trickier to use as a result. And of all the things to whine about in a D&D-based cRPG... I've got a copy of Curse of the Azure Bonds sitting on my shelf, anyone care to guess how many of its dungeons aren't on a square fucking grid?

NWN could've looked better, sure, but some of the things people gripe about (like the grid design and segmented characters) were legitimate tradeoffs with solid rationales behind them.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Controllers are such clunky pieces of shit that even Dark Souls despite its trash-tier M&KB responsiveness plays better on M&KB.

I just completed a playthrough of Demon's Souls (2009) on PC, at first using mouse & keyboard, but I switched to a PS3 controller after completing the first level because the M&KB controls were so janky that they almost caused me to die a few times. With a PS3 controller, I was able to complete the rest of the game without dying once (I've beaten it three times on the PS3 itself, which helps, though the last occasion would be 7 or 8 years ago).

 

[Vic]

Controllers are such clunky pieces of shit that even Dark Souls despite its trash-tier M&KB responsiveness plays better on M&KB.

I just completed a playthrough of Demon's Souls (2009) on PC, at first using mouse & keyboard, but I switched to a PS3 controller after completing the first level because the M&KB controls were so janky that they almost caused me to die a few times. With a PS3 controller, I was able to complete the rest of the game without dying once (I've beaten it three times on the PS3 itself, which helps, though the last occasion would be 7 or 8 years ago).

that just means you have more practice playing with a controller. a mouse will always be superior to a joystick because you have greater input control

 

[quixotic]

Analog movement is a godsend in a lot of games. Controllers have their uses.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

that just means you have more practice playing with a controller. a mouse will always be superior to a joystick because you have greater input control

Amount of time spent playing games on PC with M&KB is vastly greater than playing games with a controller, whether on a console or a PC, and I've completed some physically-demanding action-oriented games, such as Hollow Knight, with M&KB.

 

[Funposter]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/why-does-everyone-hate-morrowind.10050/ -> This one has a poll, where a majority of people say they like morrowind but virtually every post is anti morrowind, so I'm assuming morrowind/TES fans went back and voted in it years later.

conspiratorial mindset of the average morrowind disliker

 

[Harthwain]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/why-does-everyone-hate-morrowind.10050/ -> This one has a poll, where a majority of people say they like morrowind but virtually every post is anti morrowind, so I'm assuming morrowind/TES fans went back and voted in it years later.

conspiratorial mindset of the average morrowind disliker

Yeah. People are much more likely to voice their dislikes than their likes.

 

[Vic]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/why-does-everyone-hate-morrowind.10050/ -> This one has a poll, where a majority of people say they like morrowind but virtually every post is anti morrowind, so I'm assuming morrowind/TES fans went back and voted in it years later.

conspiratorial mindset of the average morrowind disliker

Yeah. People are much more likely to voice their dislikes than their likes.

except for morrowind fanboys, like Funposter he only pops up when there is a thread about morrowind.

 

[Percolator Fish]

had to vote for elder scrolls even though its a reminder of the time i left the morrowindow open all night and the breeze flowed in to dry out my hamburger penis. NWN was boring and annoying

 

[Beans00]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/why-does-everyone-hate-morrowind.10050/ -> This one has a poll, where a majority of people say they like morrowind but virtually every post is anti morrowind, so I'm assuming morrowind/TES fans went back and voted in it years later.

conspiratorial mindset of the average morrowind disliker

 

[Beans00]

elder scrolls and nu fallout do objectively play better on a controller

Not a single game in the world plays objectively better on a controller. Not one.

Sports games and racing games.

Trying to play nhl,fifa,madden,ncaa on keyboard/mouse would be/is like a cerebral palsy simulator, not fun for anyone.
Racing games are more doable but I prefer controller.



Some people can do 2d platformers on keyboard, I can't but maybe thats because I had an SNES before I had a pc.

 

[Levenmouth]

We know which gaem is the real wiener of that era.

 

[Eirinjas]

I'd love to hear more about how Neverwinter Night's six second rounds for combat makes it a terrible game.

It makes the game unnecessarily slow. However, when you pair it with the overall jankyness of the character controls, the shitty wheel menu, the fact that you really only directly control one character and if you have a henchmen they are a detriment to themselves even if you give them commands they do poorly in following them thanks to their AI, and with having to wait to cast and do other things OUTSIDE of combat based on that timer makes NWN absolute dogshit to play.

I kinda liked A Dance With Rogues because it focuses on intrigue rather than combat (which is NWN's weakest element due to the issues you described).

But as you play a rogue, there's a couple of quests where you have to use thief skills like opening locks and disarming traps.

Remember how in Baldur's Gate those actions were pretty much instant?
In NWN you have to watch a 6 second timer go down every single time you use these skills.

Complete fucking trash, NWN has tedium hardcoded into its most basic gameplay systems so even good modules that should be fun to play become an absolute chore.

There are plenty of NWN user modules I appreciate for their design, but actually playing them is terrible. They would be excellent 10/10 games if they ran in any other engine than the irredeemable piece of shit that is NWN1.
But as is, their actual fun factor never manages to surpass a meager 4/10. That's how horrendously NWN plays. It manages to drag down absolute masterpiece 10/10 content like the Swordflight series to the gutter. Its very core is designed to be anti-fun.

You're right. This is so much better. And not tedious at all.

 

[JarlFrank]

Oh wow I wonder what you could do to make it better. I dunno, maybe... improve your fucking lockpicking skill?

In NWN you can also fail your lockpick attempts, but instead of a half second animation of pushing your hand forward and twisting the pick, it takes SIX seconds for every attempt.