NWN Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition - Beamdog's final enhancement - now with new premium modules

[Cael]

As a spellcaster, XP is more valuable than gold. Higher levels means more spells and more powerful spells. One character level can make a tremendous difference. After some initial roughness, solo actually makes thing easier. Your henchmen, while initially a crunch, become a restraint. This is all the more true since resting in the OC is nearly without restriction.

I went through the magic-dead zone in HotU with a Druid and a Sorcerer. It can be done. Just a bit harder.

That said, I think there is a bug in the OC where you get more XP as Cleric or Druid than any other class. Run through the intro or Chapter 1 with a Cleric and then some other class. You will notice a big difference.

In AD&D 2nd edition clerics levelled quicker

This is 3.0.

Yeah I know that maybe its similar quick leveling? Its been ages since I have read 3.0 rule set.

No. 3.x all have the same levelling scheme. Which is why they fucked up the balance between classes so badly.

I wonder if someone fucked up and used the 2nd edition xp table.

If that is the case, the Rogue would be zipping through levels like mad.

But no, that is not how XP and levelling is coded in NWN.

 

[Sarathiour]

I'm quite surprised that an henchman could explain 4 level of difference, due to the way xp scaling work.

 

[Infinitron]

One of them won the competition and I think is considered a semi-official bridge module, but I don't remember which. Shadohaunt maybe?

https://web.archive.org/web/20040402034526/http://nwn.bioware.com/builders/bridgemodule.html

Bridge Module Winner

We Have a Winner!
First of all, on behalf of everyone at BioWare I would like to thank all of community members who entered modules to bridge the gap between Shadows of Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark. We were very impressed with the entries and the obvious care that was shown to forge a new chapter in the Neverwinter universe that fit so seamlessly into the established world. BioWare is well aware of the time, effort and sweat required to craft an adventure and we thank all of you for taking the time to help further embellish this story.

The final two modules came down to Papermonk’s adventure "The Nether Scrolls" and Xxtayce’s "Shadohaunt." Both authors will receive a cool assortment of BioSwag for their entries.

Jay Watamaniuk
BioWare Community Manager

And the winner is...
Papermonk’s adventure ‘The Nether Scrolls’ just nudged out the competition. In addition to the fine swag, Papermonk will receive a copy of the collector’s edition signed by the BioWare Neverwinter Nights development team. Congrats’ Papermonk!

 

[Cael]

I'm quite surprised that an henchman could explain 4 level of difference, due to the way xp scaling work.

The difference is pretty substantial. It basically puts you 2 CR over your current level, I think, which, if you look at the XP tables, will bone you for 30+% XP. I can't recall the exact numbers, but I dimly recall going from 42XP to 27 or something similar. It was high enough that I noticed it straight away and from then on, the henchmen stay in the tavern and only gets put into the party for quest xp and items

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

It's an odd design choice because from the very beginning when Tommi becomes available, it's clear the game wants you to have a companion with you at all times. It never discourages you in character for doing so, but then penalizes you for it in xp gain, even though the penalty itself basically doesn't even matter.

 

[Cael]

It is only in the OC, IIRC. The other two campaigns don't have the Cleric/Druid XP glitch. They still have the henchmen/summons one.

 

[rogueknight333]

In the OC (and only the OC, the feature was removed in the expansions) Bioware deliberately arranged for certain classes to get bonus XP and level up faster. The point was to give certain classes, typically casters, that in the (questionable) judgment of the Bioware devs would be more difficult for noobs to play competently, a little extra help.

 

[Sarathiour]

In the OC (and only the OC, the feature was removed in the expansions) Bioware deliberately arranged for certain classes to get bonus XP and level up faster. The point was to give certain classes, typically casters, that in the (questionable) judgment of the Bioware devs would be more difficult for noobs to play competently, a little extra help.

Yeah, I was confused, because I'm pretty sure my sorcerer/rdd was one level ahead of my paladin despite being multiclassed. Might also be due to the henchman dying more often and me can't being arsed to bring them back.

 

[Cael]

I am 100% certain that only Cleric and Druids get that buff. Wizards, bards and sorcerers don't get it.

 

[Sarathiour]

Well might be something else, but I certainly won't inflict this upon myself what caused that, the system is pretty bad in the first place. Having a system that punish multiclass and henchman while simultaneously gutting the xp of everything under your level could never lead to a coherent design.

 

[Cael]

Well might be something else, but I certainly won't inflict this upon myself what caused that, the system is pretty bad in the first place. Having a system that punish multiclass and henchman while simultaneously gutting the xp of everything under your level could never lead to a coherent design.

The whole idea was to punish multiclass. That was the basic premise of 3.x, and was brought about by dramaqueens crying about how "unrealistic and OP" multiclass is.

 

[Sarathiour]

Yeah my point is it's not very effective, as leveling up is even more punishing in term of xp lost than multiclassing.

 

[Cael]

Yeah my point is it's not very effective, as leveling up is even more punishing in term of xp lost than multiclassing.

3.x is very effective at it. Try to make even a common fighter/mage multi-class in 3.x without prestige classes. You'd be at half levels, whereas in 2nd Ed, you'd be 2-3 levels behind, maybe, until you hit its equivalent of epic levels.

 

[Sarathiour]

That's not a very fair comparaison, thaco isn't additive compared to baba, and that's the most flagrant example.

 

[Cael]

That's not a very fair comparaison, thaco isn't additive compared to baba, and that's the most flagrant example.

No. 2nd Ed just took the higher of the two, which means you get full BAB instead of the additive one.

 

[Sykar]

2nd Ed. was my favorite overall. Especially the HP vs damage balance was better imo.

 

[Cael]

2nd Ed. was my favorite overall. Especially the HP vs damage balance was better imo.

Only thing I didn't like about 2nd Ed is how they stopped the crazy combos you could do with Human dual classing. No more Paladin/Mages or Ranger/Mages. I miss those.

 

[Don Peste]

Anybody got to play this? I've just found out it existed: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/cant-get-enough-of-nwn-now-its-wireless.5247/

 

[Cael]

Anybody got to play this? I've just found out it existed: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/cant-get-enough-of-nwn-now-its-wireless.5247/

"Mob-"
"Fuck off!"

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

So, I finished HotU and I'm not yet sure if I want to go back and resolve the Sleeping Man's True Love quest differently. The RNG gods gave him the Sensei, but she just seems to freak out and run away from him after she wakes him up. I don't get it, am I missing something here? Did I pick the wrong dialogue options? I googled it and certain ancient forum posts seem to indicate that there is a way to unite them somehow, but damned if randos from the mid 2000s are specific. Is this just one of those quests where there is no happy ending? Would the result be happier if the Knower of Names is his True Love? If it just ends in some variant of disappointment no matter who is chosen or what is said, I won't bother but I'd appreciate the Codex's insight here.

I'll post again in a day or so with my overall thoughts on the Expansion regardless. Thanks.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

So, I finished HotU and I'm not yet sure if I want to go back and resolve the Sleeping Man's True Love quest differently. The RNG gods gave him the Sensei, but she just seems to freak out and run away from him after she wakes him up. I don't get it, am I missing something here? Did I pick the wrong dialogue options? I googled it and certain ancient forum posts seem to indicate that there is a way to unite them somehow, but damned if randos from the mid 2000s are specific. Is this just one of those quests where there is no happy ending? Would the result be happier if the Knower of Names is his True Love? If it just ends in some variant of disappointment no matter who is chosen or what is said, I won't bother but I'd appreciate the Codex's insight here.

I'll post again in a day or so with my overall thoughts on the Expansion regardless. Thanks.

Nah he'll chase her and she'll run happily ever after.

 

[Zeriel]

2nd Ed. was my favorite overall. Especially the HP vs damage balance was better imo.

It's got that kino simulationism where everything is supposed to correlate to real things. No applying random stats to your rolls that don't make sense, it's fully logical and focused on verisimilitude. 3e began the decline into gamey design. The rot wasn't necessarily evident at first, but now with the hindsight of years you can see that's where it all began.

I said this elsewhere in relation to Pathfinder, but 3e is also where you get the hugely inflated list of prestige classes & especially magical variant classes. 2e is the last time I feel like magical classes are special and being a "Wizard" or "Cleric" or "Druid" is actually cool, and not just a shittier or more bland version of a prestige class or exotic spell-based variant starting class. Less is more afterall.

 

[Sykar]

2nd ED did have kits so there was expansion on the classes in that Edition optinally. Personally I did not like the attribute system's rigidity much and neither did I like the special rule for strength. Also it is a myth that swords and most other melee weapons need much strength and bows dexterity, it is more of the other way around. Most powerful bows needed tremendous strength to draw, while swords were ineffective against armor regardless of strength.
So there were some small flaws with 2nd ED, but overall I still like it more.

 

[Zeriel]

Of course, 2E had the famous back catalogue of splats and settings that adds a metric fuckton of random bullshit if you use it all. But just in terms of "overall feeling" of 2e, those are the themes I tend to boil it down to. If you just say "well its more classical", people just call you an old man. I do think there is a common verisimilitude/simulationism kick that early TRPGs are after, perhaps coming from their Wargaming roots, and you can see that reflected in the PC games too. Daggerfall is a totally different beast in its approach to design than Morrowind, for instance, and I find Daggerfall very D&D/2E in its style.

 

[gerey]

while swords were ineffective against armor regardless of strength

Are we talking about IRL swords?

Because claiming they were ineffective against armor is a big caveat, and depends wholly on the time period, type of sword and armor they are pitted against. Also, it needs to be mentioned that for most of history swords were not the primary weapon of any serious combatant, but a tertiary sidearm you used when you had nothing else. Granted, there have also existed edge cases like the Roman Gladius.

Even the samurai, with all the memes about them and swords, used bows and polearms primarily when fighting in actual war.

Swords pitted against chainmail can overwhelm the armor itself if enough force is put into the blow. Alternatively if you manage to get the tip into one of the rings there's a very high chance you can pierce through the armor.

When it came to plate armor swords generally tended to be ineffective, but if you were going to use one against someone clad in plate you best bet was to either aim for the gaps and slits, or turn the sword around and hit them with the pommel/guard.

Alternatively, a strong enough hit could deliver enough force to cause damage through the plate and padding underneath, even if it failed to penetrate.

Then there's swords that were specifically designed to pierce through armor, like various "mail breakers". And finally, you need to take into account the longevity of the sword itself - if it was truly an ineffective weapon it wouldn't have been used for as long as it has been.

Also, you did need a lot of strength to wield a sword, or any melee weapon really. They might not feel that heavy initially, but after an hour of wielding them you're going to start to feel their weight.