No Man's Sky

[Makabb]

How exactly does this mean that? They have some templates for trees, animals, surfaces, etc they fill in with randomized data according to the seed value for a particular planet. So what makes an algorithm "real"?

Because it will influence the shapes and forms of animals and vegetation, they don't randomize the data seed, it would make everything random.

 

[jcd]

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[agentorange]

Elite, a game made in 1984: "The Elite universe contains eight galaxies, each with 256 planets to explore. Due to the limited capabilities of 8-bit computers, these worlds are procedurally generated. A single seed number is run through a fixed algorithm the appropriate number of times and creates a sequence of numbers determining each planet's complete composition (position in the galaxy, prices of commodities, and name and local details; text strings are chosen numerically from a lookup table and assembled to produce unique descriptions, such as a planet with "carnivorous arts graduates"). This means that no extra memory is needed to store the characteristics of each planet, yet each is unique and has fixed properties. Each galaxy is also procedurally generated from the first."

Elite 2, 1993: "Frontier built on Elite in other aspects as well. It is possible to freeform seamlessly land on planets"

Don't act like NMS is anything more than a new coat of paint, and matter of fact improvements due to advances in technology, on a decades old framework.

 

[buzz]

Planets in Frontier were pretty much glorified parking lots tho. Not the same thing.

I'm not sure I understand why you assholes need to put down the potential of No Man's Sky. If the game is shit, it's shit no matter how you spin it. But if it's good and impressive, then it's nothing but a massive incline for everyone involved. Considering the most technological development we get nowadays is "how that microscopic blur on a texture is less blurry now", having a proper procedural game of this scale would be quite a big step, no matter what. Of course, assuming what they say is true and not just bullshit hype.

 

[dumdum]

Planets in Frontier were pretty much glorified parking lots tho. Not the same thing.

I'm not sure I understand why you assholes need to put down the potential of No Man's Sky. If the game is shit, it's shit no matter how you spin it. But if it's good and impressive, then it's nothing but a massive incline for everyone involved. Considering the most technological development we get nowadays is "how that microscopic blur on a texture is less blurry now", having a proper procedural game of this scale would be quite a big step, no matter what. Of course, assuming what they say is true and not just bullshit hype.

teenagers.

 

[Makabb]

Because they paid 50$ for elite dangerous and 1200 $ to chris roberts and another 2000$ for dat cruiser.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I'm not sure I understand why you assholes need to put down the potential of No Man's Sky. If the game is shit, it's shit no matter how you spin it. But if it's good and impressive, then it's nothing but a massive incline for everyone involved. Considering the most technological development we get nowadays is "how that microscopic blur on a texture is less blurry now", having a proper procedural game of this scale would be quite a big step, no matter what. Of course, assuming what they say is true and not just bullshit hype.

It's actually the other way around. If the game is cool there is no need for you assholes to tell us what it is even though you don't fully understand it.
What they show in the videos is primitive shit. The same idea was just recently proposed in a beginners thread "Trying to learn programming from ~0, realistic goals naturally help needed.", in fact it comes up in the majoritiy of beginner's games. When people realize how much work they are facing, they try to randomize large parts of their game and pray for the best. It doesn't work of course. The C64 "games" I designed in the late 80s were mostly based on the same principles, randomize everything that I couldn't / wouldn't do, the results always terrible. Elite was a blast in 1985 but today it would not even get 10,000$ kickstarted.

How exactly does this mean that? They have some templates for trees, animals, surfaces, etc they fill in with randomized data according to the seed value for a particular planet. So what makes an algorithm "real"?

Probably their functions just break down when x approaches zero.

 

[Makabb]

randomize everything that I couldn't / wouldn't do, the results always terrible.

Where as they clearly stated that nothing in NMS is randomized but have set algorithms to make it work as they have planned it. For example if a planet is close enough to the sun it will have water and if it has water it will create rivers, lakes, oceans and this will create moisture in the atmosphere and that moisture will affect the color of the sky. If a planet is far away it will not have water and none of this will be in effect. Nothing is random there.

 

[Makabb]

Some new gamescom screens, this game gunna be fudgin epix

 

[jcd]

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[Makabb]

Does spore have procedural audio ?


If everything what they say is true, NMS will be the most impressive technologically game to date, and yes games like Elite might have done that before, but NMS pushes it a few steps forward with everything and you can't argue with facts, because facts are true, and truth is that there was nor is a full commercial game engine like NMS.

 

[jcd]

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[Makabb]

yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHCRzAcGS0Y

music maybe but not audio

 

[jcd]

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[Makabb]

the only fact here is that you don't understand what they're saying or what's going on in the game or even what procedural generation involves because you're technologically illiterate

Ok pls show me a game with 18 quintillion real life size planets where you can seamlessly transition from planet to space

 

[vonAchdorf]

If everything what they say is true, NMS will be the most impressive technologically game to date, and yes games like Elite might have done that before, but NMS pushes it a few steps forward with everything and you can't argue with facts, because facts are true, and truth is that there was nor is a full commercial game engine like NMS.

The technology is certainly interesting, the question is will be if the game is fun. And I don't see that, unless there is some interesting emergent gameplay I described before.

The snowy mountains scene is really pretty though.

For some interesting procedurally generated "game" look here: A procedurally generated FPS game in 96kb. Gameplay starts at about 1:10.

 

[jcd]

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[Makabb]

The planets are created by formulas that always remain constant. Sean likened the formulas to what you get when calculating a sine wave function. The sine wave already exists theoretically, but upon calculating the formula and drawing it on two axes, it becomes real. If I stop observing the sine wave, it doesn't cease to exist. It still exists in it's purely mathematical form, rather than visual. Upon calculating the same function with the same variables, anyone can see the same sine wave.

In NMS, the formulas that determine everything in the game never change. They remain constant with the same variables, so they never really stop existing. They just stop being observed visually.

So if you go deeper by this, it's like having 18 quintillion planets made by hand and not by a random seed as you refer to, as the formulas and algorithms are hand made and they always exist and are the same, they just go out of view when you are not looking at them.

 

[agentorange]

 

[jcd]

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[Raapys]

That's why it's called procedural generation rather than random generation.

And I can make one that outputs 18quintillion * 18 quintillion planets by using 2 64-bit( max value 18446744073709551616) seeds instead of one.

 

[Makabb]

so in other words, same thing as in elite from the 80s?

Can you land on planets in elite?

And I can make one that outputs 18quintillion * 18 quintillion planets by using 2 64-bit( max value 18446744073709551616) seeds instead of one.

So why won't make you?

 

[jcd]

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[theSavant]

Why do you get stuck on single elements? The sum of all parts make it new.

 

[buzz]

Because