Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[Wunderbar]

At least they are getting some good hires for a change instead of just bleeding talent left and right.

but most of these new hires are tech specialists (graphics/sound), not writers or designers.

 

[Flou]

but most of these new hires are tech specialists (graphics/sound), not writers or designers.

Really good writers are not easy to find. Look at Hollywood, most of the writers there are bunch of hacks. You need to grow those writers yourself like they did earlier. Now they have backing to keep their writers, unless Feargus goes and fucks up something. They need those tech specialists as well. I don't think any of their game so far has been technically really good. All those writers would go to waste, if the game still played and looked like shit.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

but most of these new hires are tech specialists (graphics/sound), not writers or designers.

Really good writers are not easy to find. Look at Hollywood, most of the writers there are bunch of hacks. You need to grow those writers yourself like they did earlier. Now they have backing to keep their writers, unless Feargus goes and fucks up something. They need those tech specialists as well. I don't think any of their game so far has been technically really good. All those writers would go to waste, if the game still played and looked like shit.

Disagree. Hollywood has bad writers because:

- nepotism
- people who make decisions can't spot good writing
- people who make decisions think audience is stupid, so they want a dumpdowned story
- people who make decisions are afraid of taking risks, so they naturally prefer mediocrity
- people who make decisions don't care about good writing
- focus groups influencing creative decisions
- rewrites which lead to mishmash of different ideas, which may have worked separately, but end up creating a mess
- there is not a lot of time to write a script

 

[Flou]

Disagree. Hollywood has bad writers because:

- nepotism
- people who make decisions can't spot good writing
- people who make decisions think audience is stupid, so they want a dumpdowned story
- people who make decisions are afraid of taking risks, so they naturally prefer mediocrity
- people who make decisions don't care about good writing
- focus groups influencing creative decisions
- rewrites which lead to mishmash of different ideas, which may have worked separately, but end up creating a mess
- there is not a lot of time to write a script

Doesn't everything you just said ring true to the gaming industry as well?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I would say that gaming industry respect writing even less than Hollywood.

 

[RepHope]

At least they are getting some good hires for a change instead of just bleeding talent left and right.

but most of these new hires are tech specialists (graphics/sound), not writers or designers.

They’re probably prioritizing the areas Obsidian has traditionally struggled with, the broken gameplay and ugly graphics. I don’t really know where they should be looking to find new writing talent to be honest, certainly not in fucking Cali that’s for sure.

 

[KVVRR]

At least they are getting some good hires for a change instead of just bleeding talent left and right.

but most of these new hires are tech specialists (graphics/sound), not writers or designers.

They’re probably prioritizing the areas Obsidian has traditionally struggled with, the broken gameplay and ugly graphics. I don’t really know where they should be looking to find new writing talent to be honest, certainly not in fucking Cali that’s for sure.

Well, Avellon's free to work on whatever now.

 

[Flou]

Another hire from Gearbox. Seth May, he worked on Borderlands 3. Will be doing some Area Design at Obsidian

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethlevels/

One more addition to their audio team as well. Jeshua Whitaker as a Senior Sound Designer. Worked previously on Elder Scrolls: Online

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeshua-whitaker/

 

[Ging_Sama]

Look like Chris Parker games will be showed the 23 July

 

[Infinitron]

Some quotes from Feargus in article about Microsoft's studio acquisitions: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...aft-and-mojang-taught-xbox-how-to-buy-studios

Obsidian head Feargus Urquhart says: "Around spring or summer last year, I had a number of employees who were super disappointed because they thought it was going to be more different [laughs]. Not from the standpoint of us not being supported, but because they felt we were becoming part of this 'big Microsoft'.

"The only really different aspect of my day-to-day is not having to be the guy getting the money from the publishers. That has also changed how we approach development. A lot of times as an independent, how you develop games is dictated by the partner, because it's their money and they have a way they want you to make a game. It's been cool to apply those years of experience, and say 'hey, we can make the games the way we want to make them'."

For Obsidian, it's less about expansion, and more about making the most of Microsoft's other divisions, including user research labs, tech teams and, most of all, other studios.

"One of the most important things is just access to experience," Urquhart says. "Matt has got us altogether, and we're a cranky group and we don't always like to go somewhere because we've got all this other stuff going on. But whenever we do get together, it's great because we forged friendships.

"It sounds weird, but running an independent studio can be a lonely thing. We know each other, but we're all usually so engrossed in what we're doing. But now we're here, we are all up on Teams together, so it's very easy for me to send a thing to Alan at Turn 10 and go 'hey, how do we blah blah blah blah', and we either chat via text or we get on a call."

And Urquhart feels that the benefit of limited integration works both ways, as it allows Microsoft to learn from how these previously independent teams operate.

"The established Microsoft studios, they have another way of looking at development. I am going to be hyperbolic, but you have the limited resources versus infinite resources, and how do different groups deal with that? To be honest, a lot of what I've had to do with Microsoft is back off saying 'we can only spend 17 cents on that'. Not that we should spend 17,000 cents on that, but I need to think longer term. And sometimes being an independent studio involves thinking shorter term.

"And I also think it's interesting -- not to toot our horns, but you've got Brian Fargo, and me, and Tim Schafer and Nina [Kristensen, Ninja Theory], and all these people with lots of experience making games, and we have an effect on the organisation. This idea of the limited integration studio was the best idea. Maybe it was intended or unintended, but by letting us be who we are, we then have a positive effect on Microsoft."

 

[Butter]

Feargus and Nina are on a first-name basis, eh?

 

[Roguey]

I had a number of employees who were super disappointed because they thought it was going to be more different [laughs]. Not from the standpoint of us not being supported, but because they felt we were becoming part of this 'big Microsoft'.

Optimistic Obsidianites thought MS was going to fix their management problems, huh.

 

[Quillon]

Management problems mattered when there were talent to be utilized.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, there are more of these articles. More from Feargus: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...-could-never-pitch-these-ideas-to-a-publisher

Echoing Schafer's comments about opening that folder of crazy ideas, Obsidian boss Feargus Urquhart feels that Game Pass will enable the RPG studio [which Microsoft acquired in 2018] to create things that wouldn't get approved otherwise. Such as its upcoming survival game, Grounded.

"This isn't anti-publisher, but try to sell a publisher on something strange, and they're like 'if we put money in this, how are we going to make that back?' Which is absolutely the right way to look at it. Game Pass emboldens us to go 'we think this could be super cool', and there's people who can just try it.

"I read this book [Free: The Future of a Radical Price], and they did some study where they offered chocolate on a campus. It was 11 cents for a nice piece of chocolate and one cent for an average piece. And they got a good smattering of people across both price ranges. They then lowered both by one cent, and everybody just took the free chocolate. Even though it was just a penny different. [Game Pass] gives us the opportunity to make things that are new, and people will try them because they're not making a judgement call. They're not spending that penny. That absolutely has changed how we look at different conceptual stuff, which are not 100-person teams working on things.

"That helps us internally as well, as we have this idea where people can rotate between the products. They can go and do something different, and then go back to a big RPG."

Fargo touches upon a recent debate that has flared up in the games space, which is whether modern AAA games need to be as long as they are. There's a notion that developers feel obligated to make their games longer to ensure they are successful. Does Game Pass perhaps relieve that issue?

Urquhart isn't convinced. He points to the fact Obsidian has made big RPGs like Fallout, and shorter ones like South Park. And the deciding factor for the length of these titles was the game and its audience, more than anything else.

"A 60-hour South Park game didn't seem appropriate," he says. "But then you look at Fallout: New Vegas, and the intent there is to let people live in that world for a really long time.

"As it relates to Game Pass, you'll love this answer, but I don't know. You could do something episodic like The Walking Dead, but I don't want to play Fallout: New Vegas for 10 hours and then wait for the next 10 hours. I want to go around this world. We are going to figure out how you apply gameplay hours to what is on Game Pass. But you need to be cognisant of the player and the type of game.

"Now I do think in the long term that some people don't have an appetite for as long games. There is a group. But that's not about Game Pass."

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ries-x-developers-being-held-back-by-xbox-one

Obsidian boss Feargus Urquhart says that from the perspective of building RPGs, new hardware doesn't change the company's priorities.

"Of course technology is important to RPGs, but for us it is about characters, story, reactivity and player agency," he says. "I was playing an Apple 1.5-plus -- it wasn't really an Apple 2 because my friend's dad had cobbled it together -- and we were playing Wizardry in like 1980. And here we are 40 years later, and Obsidian is still making RPGs. So what makes an RPG is not the technology.

"Now our job is to put people into worlds, and technology does afford us to make a world more believable... I've been asked before what's the most important thing about future generations? And I'm like 'RAM', the least sexy thing out of all of it. But more RAM means more NPCs, more trees... Your streaming point is out a little farther and all these little things.

"Can we do more with technology? Absolutely. But it still always has to go back to characters, story, reactivity and agency. And that has to be irrespective of technology.

He continues: "I think it's super important to those who are going out and getting new consoles, that they feel good about the games that they are buying on them. When we are eventually working on those, we will look at how to balance between the different generations of hardware. But what is super important to me is that it is not a different experience. It's not a case of you get half the quests. The idea is that it has to be that same Obsidian experience no matter what platform it is on."

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

 

[Quillon]

Josh can't see this approach doesn't improve anything. What good it did for Eora that making its map upside-down/right side left? No one made 1 positive comment about it like "Ooh murica-equivalent continent is on the east side! how original and cool!", all it amounted to was unnecessary inconvenience for our brains that leads nowhere. And don't get me started on "27 hours days" again

 

[Latro]

but for us it is about characters, story, reactivity and player agency," he says. "I was playing an Apple 1.5-plus -- it wasn't really an Apple 2 because my friend's dad had cobbled it together -- and we were playing Wizardry in like 1980.

what does wizardry have to do with characters, story, reactivity, and player agency?

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Josh can't see this approach doesn't improve anything. What good it did for Eora that making its map upside-down/right side left? No one made 1 positive comment about it like "Ooh murica-equivalent continent is on the east side! how original and cool!", all it amounted to was unnecessary inconvenience for our brains that leads nowhere. And don't get me started on "27 hours days" again

What annoys me is that he think it's this new quirky original approach to design, while he's actually super late to the party. Watchmen (the movie) popularized subversion in the comic book genre back in 2009, and then Magicians the book came out in 2009 and put subversion into fantasy like no one before, and then it hit everyone - OH, SUBVERSION! And then it started everywhere. And while it was new back in 2009, you could be one of the first to copy it and be cool. But now??

I was reading a book recently, where the unicorns are these ripped horses with a long sharp horn that they impale people with. And instead of "being pure", they're obsessed with virginal purity, so they grab little girls and drag them into the forest, where they can protect their virginity. And I thought "oh great,.. subversion *yawn*".

Josh thinks it's cool to do NOW? Eleven years later?

He's like gramps discovering twitter and tweeting his breakfast, thinking he's original.

 

[FeelTheRads]

"me, subversive designer". What a pompous cocksucker.

 

[Infinitron]

itt people who don't recognize self-deprecatory irony

 

[pomenitul]

itt people who don't recognize self-deprecatory irony

When the hate boner devolves into ischemic priapism.

 

[fantadomat]

"me, subversive designer". What a pompous cocksucker.

Just go and kill yourself already! Fucking annoying cunt.

 

[wahrk]

This doesn’t read like Sawyer is being serious about actually designing this way, if anything he’s mocking this kind of approach.

 

[FeelTheRads]

itt people who don't recognize self-deprecatory irony

Of course, it is. And this is what then?

you, gamer: FU-! *cut off as pants immediately fill with feces, head explodes*

Deep understanding of your customers?

Just go and kill yourself already! Fucking annoying cunt.

Still butthurt, shitbrain? Still ranting in every thread about things you have no clue about and failing to understand even basic human communication?

 

[Infinitron]

itt people who don't recognize self-deprecatory irony

Of course, it is. And this is what then?

you, gamer: FU-! *cut off as pants immediately fill with feces, head explodes*

Deep understanding of your customers?

It's a comically exaggerated scene. Sawyer suggests that black be associated with good and the imaginary gamer is so SHOCKED by the originality of it that he shits his pants and his head explodes. He is, if anything, making fun of his own penchant for subversion.

The man said last year that he'd failed with POE and was out of touch with what gamers wanted, and now you think he's bragging about how awesome his ideas are? That makes no sense.