Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Captain Shrek]

I believe people focus on Obsidian's bugs more because the gameplay isn't fun enough to distract them. Bioware and Bethesda actually make games that are fun for them to play.

that tells us something about people, does it not?

 

[suejak]

Yeah, that makes sense and would explain why I'm the opposite. I literally have never complained about an Obsidian game... especially New Vegas. Even when it trapped me in Camp McCarran with a CTD savegame bug.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Bioware and Bethesda actually make games that are fun for them to play.

You think Bethesda and Bioware games are actually fun to play? Really?

 

[Mrowak]

Bioware and Bethesda actually make games that are fun for them to play.

You think Bethesda and Bioware games are actually fun to play? Really?

But they are... Sure it's cheap fun, and what fun there is, is is diluted by pandering and incompetence, but there are some fun elements in there - be it Skyrim or Dragon Age 1. For the love of God, gameplaywise I cannot really tell what is good about, say Alpha Protocol, or NWN 2 OC, or Dungeon Siege 3.

 

[suejak]

LAWLLLLL, I just watched the video for the first time. That was really really really amusing.

Anyway, it's true that Obsidian makes buggy games, yeah. It's true they have some slipshod design mishaps. It's easier to make linear or repetitive games, but Obsidian handcrafts everything so meticulously, offers so much choice, that it's simply a bitch to playtest and patch up.

Bethesda makes complex, open games. But there's a lot of repetitiveness in them too. We all know this -- how many undead dungeons were there in Skyrim? You just do a coupla quests to become archmage, right? Anybody else chitchat with a personality-less elf in the first town and then suddenly he's following you to the ends of the earth for no clear reason? There aren't any interesting followers in the game at all. The quests offer so little choice, so little to actually do!

Bioware basically makes linear shooters these days. Those things aren't hard on QA.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Guy makes some decent points tbh

He misses the most important and obvious point. Unlike turd companies like Bethesda, Obsidian actually tries to put real content in their games. Making sure your game has a good story and good writing with lots of C&C and shit like that obviously takes a lot of time and developing resources that aren't going to be used to polish the product. With Bethesda, the content doesn't matter because they know their fans will lap their shit up anyway, so its infinitely easier to develop their games. He speaks of deceit but really, it is not Obsidian who is being dishonest, but shit companies like Bethesda who have conned millions in thinking their games are real masterpieces while putting almost no effort whatsoever in developing quality content of any kind. Then there's that little thing about Bethesda screwing Obsidian out of deserved royalties, which again shows where the real deceit lies.

 

[Mrowak]

Guy makes some decent points tbh

He misses the most important and obvious point. Unlike turd companies like Bethesda, Obsidian actually tries to put real content in their games. Making sure your game has a good story and good writing with lots of C&C and shit like that obviously takes a lot of time and developing resources that aren't going to be used to polish the product.

Excuses, excuses...

With Bethesda, the content doesn't matter because they know their fans will lap their shit up anyway, so its infinitely easier to develop their games. He speaks of deceit but really, it is not Obsidian who is being dishonest, but shit companies like Bethesda who have conned millions in thinking their games are real masterpieces while putting almost no effort whatsoever in developing quality content of any kind.

And yet, despite Codex proclaiming otherwise, the *is* quality content in them still. The problem is there's less of it with each iteration.

Then there's that little thing about Bethesda screwing Obsidian out of deserved royalties, which again shows where the real deceit lies.

It's hard to argue with that. But that's beside the point.

And I completely disagree about Obsidian's approach to bugs - they should have had time to test that shit. To even test their games as early as possible. That they do not bother working on their most glaring flaw exhibits some degree of short-sightedness. Hence, I started to think they deserve the flak they are getting.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

That they do not bother working on their most glaring flaw exhibits some degree of short-sightedness.

But they do?

Also why doesn't Bethesda in your example. PS3 versions of their games all had glaring, game breaking issues and they never bothered to fix them. DESPITE the only port they outsourced (Oblivion) working *fine* (Except for all the other Bethesda bugs)

Also ITT people are defending Bethesda

 

[Lyric Suite]

the *is* quality content in them still.

Ho? Like what?

 

[Mrowak]

the *is* quality content in them still.

Ho? Like what?

Like the motherfucking gameplay, pretty nice character builds, lot's of skills and abilities, a large world to explore (which does get samey rather fast, but then again, I can say the same about every other sandbox RPG in recent memory). Shit like that is blissfully lacking in most Obsidian games.

I think we are varbalizing wrong things in what we despise in Bethesda and Bioware. The facts are that both companies:

a) offer more simplistic games in relation to what was before
b) focus on visceral 'feel'

However, I have to say they are at least competent at creating entertainment.

It's easy to complain about everything using absolutes. Recently I started to actually play Codex "black-listed" games I'd been warned against, and I cannot really say they are utter garbage, except for extreme cases where rush-job is evident (Dragon Age 2). For the most part they are solid pieces offering lots of amusement. For this reason I find all the talk about Obisdian "fighting a good fight" and the rest delivering "decline" quite delusional.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Like the motherfucking gameplay, pretty nice character builds, lot's of skills and abilities, a large world to explore

All of which is done so poorly in Bethesda games the only explanation for them still being in business is that they have a monopoly on a genre (LARPing simulators) a lot of people just seem to want to play, no matter what.

Shit like that is blissfully lacking in most Obsidian games.

Is blissfully lacking because Bioware killed that shit off in the first place. From KOTOR to KOTOR2, from NWN to NWN2, from Mass Effect to Alpha Protocol. Spot the trend here?

 

[Mrowak]

the *is* quality content in them still.

Ho? Like what?

Like the motherfucking gameplay, pretty nice character builds, lot's of skills and abilities, a large world to explore (which does get samey rather fast, but then again, I can say the same about every other sandbox RPG in recent memory). Shit like that is blissfully lacking in most Obsidian games.

I think we are varbalizing wrong things in what we despise in Bethesda and Bioware. The facts are that both companies:

a) offer more simplistic games in relation to what was before
b) focus on visceral 'feel'

However, I have to say they are at least competent at creating entertainment.

It's easy to complain about everything using absolutes. Recently I started to actually play Codex "black-listed" games I'd been warned against, and I cannot really say they are utter garbage, except for extreme cases where rush-job is evident (Dragon Age 2). For the most part they are solid pieces offering lots of amusement. For this reason I find all the talk about Obisdian "fighting a good fight" and the rest delivering "decline" quite delusional.

That argument would have worked if it it was well done at all (NOT Morrowind). Tell you what. I wanted to like Skyrim. I really really did. I was hoping that Bathesda learned something from FNV and really went for cooler dungeons and interesting charecters.

What we get are linear dungeons with ALMOST exactly ONE path through it and characters who are generic adventures turned guards who got shot with an arrow in the knee.

Bad for you. But I think you attribute to much value in the "fluff" that distracted you from the overal picture. The stuff you mention isn't that important in the larger scheme of things.

Not saying that Skyrim is a superb game - it's a huge step back behind, say Morrowind. But's not the destroyer of worlds others painted it to be. I fail to see how it is much worse than, anything made by Obsidian.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Bad for you. But I think you attribute to much value in the "fluff" that distracted you from the overal picture.

Overall picture being you fap to LARPing simulators and don't give a shit how bad the actual games are as long as you can get your fix. Typical Bethesda whore basically.

 

[Mrowak]

Like the motherfucking gameplay, pretty nice character builds, lot's of skills and abilities, a large world to explore

All of which is done so poorly in Bethesda games the only explanation for them still being in business is that they have a monopoly on a genre (LARPing simulators) a lot of people just seem to want to play, no matter what.

Then how is it possible that Fallout:NV had such a lukewarm reception. Did Bethesda use their magical powers to undermine Obsidian's efforts?

Shit like that is blissfully lacking in most Obsidian games.

Is blissfully lacking because Bioware killed that shit off in the first place. From KOTOR to KOTOR2, from NWN to NWN2, from Mass Effect to Alpha Protocol. Spot the trend here?[/quote]

Yes, I see that Obsidian takes work of others, improves on it and still manages to release deeply flawed games. Yes, I like the improvements bit but the hack-job of bugginess, and clunckiness really got on my nerves.

 

[Mrowak]

Bad for you. But I think you attribute to much value in the "fluff" that distracted you from the overal picture.

Overall picture being you fap to LARPing simulators and don't give a shit how bad the actual games are as long as you can get your fix. Typical Bethesda whore basically.

This is the sort of argument I should handwave with typical: "it's just your opinion man.jpg"

They are not (so) bad. Your turn: what is so bad in them that is not present in a corresponding Codex approved title.

 

[suejak]

Like the motherfucking gameplay, pretty nice character builds, lot's of skills and abilities, a large world to explore

All of which is done so poorly in Bethesda games the only explanation for them still being in business is that they have a monopoly on a genre (LARPing simulators) a lot of people just seem to want to play, no matter what.

Then how is it possible that Fallout:NV had such a lukewarm reception. Did Bethesda use their magical powers to undermine Obsidian's efforts?

This is something I will never understand. Maybe it was the bugs, but I guess the majority of people are not looking for the same things in games that I am.

Fallout: New Vegas is a beautiful work of art, easily everything Fallout 3 should have been and more. It's a first-person Fallout 2 with incredible, deep content and a rich, reactive world full of substantive choices and feedback. It has sharp, mature writing and a world that feels alive around you.

Bethesda has never done that for me. Bethesda makes pretty games you walk around in aimlessly.

 

[Broseph]

Then how is it possible that Fallout:NV had such a lukewarm reception.

It was not a Bethesda game.

 

[tuluse]

Didn't FNV outsell F3?

 

[Lyric Suite]

Shh, according to gaming journalists and bloggers it was a total flop.

 

[Infinitron]

Didn't FNV outsell F3?

Yep.

 

[Mrowak]

Then how is it possible that Fallout:NV had such a lukewarm reception.

It was not a Bethesda game.

I know. So you are suggesting it was all because it was not made by Bethesda it "flopped"... Or that Bethesda made it "flop"... Ehm... Codex and its conspirational theories.

I would look for reasons elsewhere - poor marketing by Obsidian for one thing, It's obvious that all games by that studio ride on the fame on the original titles, and *nothing* else - which has been the studio's undoing for a long time. Maybe it's time to learn the lesson.

F:NV did enjoy better "word of mouth" recommendations - so in the long run it turned out quite nicely for Obsidian.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Or would have if Bethesda didn't screw Obsidian out of their money.

 

[Broseph]

We all know why it "flopped" - it simply was not as consoletard friendly as FO3 was.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Or would have if Bethesda didn't screw Obsidian out of their money.

 

[Alex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6KxCSWGRu4

Brought to you by a guy who doesn't consider skyrim a bad game

Well, on Obsidian's defense, the consolidation of publishing houses to the current low number did match with the overall low quality of games everywhere. So even if publishers aren't the sole fault for all their games, they probably still share a large blame.