Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Incline Of the Big Three, which is your favorite? (Fallout, PS:T, Arcanum)

Which one is the greatest (listed in chronological order of release)?

  • Fallout

  • Planescape: Torment

  • Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magicka Obscura


Results are only viewable after voting.
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
44,261
Codex Year of the Donut
The idea that Fallout is the opposite of PST has an obvious implication. PST is a great ...something... but the one thing I can say it's not is a great computer RPG. It's a great experience, for sure.
And it's not about combat, as I know someone will bring it up. How you interact with the world... how you represent yourself in the world, is fundamentally opposite in PST and Fallout.

To put it more succinctly: You are the Vault Dweller. You are not The Nameless One. In Fallout, you are exploring and interacting with the world. Heck, the game even begins with a mcguffin, because it's all about the journey not the destination. Although Fallout having an excellent destination is simply icing on top of that cake.
In PST, you are on TNO's journey and everything else simply serves as a vehicle for this narrative. As a simple example: How many side quests can you remember from PST if you haven't replayed it recently? I remember enjoying them, but if I was forced to name some at gunpoint, I'd be fucked.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
2,801
Location
Nedderlent
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
1,346
Location
Israel
Arcanum is not RTwP. It is either Real time or Turnbased. Spacebar can be used to switch between the TB and RT modes. The TB mode is pretty much just Fallout's combat system with a different action point system, magic, and
Still shit.
And yet it's still just Fallout with more stuff.
By that logic, a pizza is just bread with more stuff on it. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and your crude reductionist bullshit isn't going to fly here just because you want to disingenuously pretend that FO's combat is in the same ballpark as Underrail. You're such a dipshit it's hilarious.

And? Then again, I can take a certain trait and only have about 4 perks before finishing. But the number of perks is just how far the game extends the leveling system and it's length. Kinda like what Fallout 2 did. Longer game with more levels = more perks. Also the apt comparison is pathfinder 1e to D&D 3.0. Pf1e is just D&D3.5. Except the classes have a few more bells and whistles on top of the classes taken directly from D&D3.5 and you get a feat ever second level instead of every third regardless of class. So with a non-fighter, you cap out at about 7-8 feats given a generic class while you have more like 10-11 in Pf1e.
The point is that Underrail has many different "builds" that are possible as a result of the sheer number of feats in the game that have a significant impact. Do you want to play a glass cannon psyker? Go right ahead, and while you do so, feel free to choose between the countless different psychic archetypes that range from using melting people's brains with your mind to launching balls of fire and ice with your thermic control. Do you want to play a stealthy sniper rifle, where you set up traps on the battlefield to stack the deck more favorably for yourself, while also manuevering to the perfect position so you can pick your enemies off one by one, retreating tactically until they are all dead without even laying a finger on you? You can do that. Heavily armored, sledgehammer wielding tank that throws grenades at his feet? Check. Agile hoplite that can throw his spear over long distances for extra range and massive damage, while also being relatively tanky? Check. Chemical weapon specialist, with the ability to fill a battlefield full of noxious gas? Check. Spec ops commando, mowing enemies down room by room with none the wiser? Check. The list really goes on.

Contrast this with fallout? Where the builds can literally be summed up as melee, sniper, or heavy gunner. Combat is also braindead easy, so it's not like any of these choices are actually meaningful. Underrail dwarfs FO in terms of the sheer amount of builds you can play that are actually good at doing the thing you set out to do with them, versus just being some niche meme build. It also offers countless different encounters and enemy types that are made possible due to the sheer amount of these feats, which could never happen in FO.
Rather than having the ability to target specific parts of the body in the beginning like Fallout, Underrail instead allows certain things like Beheading with the Sword or Dirty only when you take the feat.
Have you even played the fucking game? Beheading doesn't work anything like FO's targeting system. You really don't have any idea what the fuck you're talking about?
The rest is mostly cooldown reduction, ap reduction, damage increase, number increases, etc. kinda like FO
This is such a gross mischaracterization and simplification of Underrail's feats. The difference between FO's feats and Underrail's feats is that while FO's feats are like you described, simple improvements to numbers and stats, Underrail's feats take this to a whole new level by making feats very specific and requiring a certain set of conditions to be met so that the great benefits can be felt. Take a feat such as survival instincts, which increases crit chance when below thirty percent health. While yes, this involves "number increases", it implements them in such a way that instantly changes how your character is going to be played. It adds a whole new dimension to a build, and forces you to either spec into extreme damage resistance and tankiness to compensate for the low health, or forms of crowd control/damage avoidance. What about ambush, which increases accuracy and crit chance when attacking a target that is illuminated while you are in the shadows. Once again, a "number increase", but done in a way that dramatically changes how you play your character and how you approach different fights. Or, we can talk about Thermodynamicity, which gives an ap reduction when alternating between hot and cold metathermic psionic abilities. If you really can't see the difference between FO's implementations of perks and Underrail's feats, you're a lost cause.
Fallout also did this with certain thinks like implants or the "childkiller" trait.
Childkiller is a reputation that you get, not a trait, and it literally just effects reaction and spawns in bounty hunters. This has nothing to do with in game feats that effect how a build is played and/or the types of damage you deal. Implants are literally just +1 stat bonuses, which again has nothing to do with feats/perks. You're retarded.
Like Fallout which has skill and attribute requirements for feats, weapons, and skill checks (dialogue checks are not advertised in dialogue). Besides, where did you think Styg got the idea from? Not Neverwinter Nights. He got it from Fallout because he wanted to make a game like Fallout with more stuff in it. The game plays like Fallout. But with more bells and whistles. It would be retarded to deny this.
I never said Styg didn't get many ideas from FO. Underrail's system was inspired by FO and I never denied this. What I said was.
I'm not going to let you get away with grossly simplifying Underrail's combat system in so many ways so that you can claim it is functionally the same as FO's combat system. Anyone who has played these two games can see the much higher levels of depth and complexity that are present in Underrail versus FO
Something can be inspired by something else, but then proceed to improve upon it and add so many different things to it that it reaches a new level of depth and complexity that the original did not have. Underrail does everything FO does, but better. And it does them significantly better in meaningful ways. You're a faggot ass fanboy however, so you pretend that it's just a few "bells and whistles", when in reality the two games play very differently.

These newfags get worse and worse every year. This dumbass has NMA reject written all over him.
You've provided no counterarguments. You've only agreed with what I already said and at best nitpicked over what a specific perk/trait is labeled as. Enjoy being retarded.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
2,437
Fallout, never actually played Planscape, maybe only D&D game I have never played. Hate the planscape setting, don't care about the 'planes' or gods or any of that shit, bores me to tears, and the stupid looking talking skull character just made it even easier to avoid all these years.
 

Ladonna

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
7,016
Almost an impossible thing to answer.

I love all three, but with that said, I remember loving Fallout, but thinking after I had finished it, that it was like a souped up but heavily shortened Wasteland. The story had a similar arc, but the game and locations seemed much smaller to me, and the game seemed too short. Now I just think it was a good thing that I was left thirsting for more, but that is just how I felt at the time. I didn't replay the game many times because of the severe effort it took to keep damn Dogmeat alive. It still chills me every time I think of replaying it.

Torment was a wildcard purchase. I still remember the totally crazy video about the game that piqued my interest while installing the Baldur's Gate expansion pack.



The game itself blew me away. What a great, but strange, experience. Most of the combat was largely forgettable, but the story and locations made up for it. I did replay the game once, optimizing my character so that I could complete things like Dak'kons circles, and other obscure things I heard about after completing it the first time (I never found the Modron guy the first time either). I will have to play it through again one day.

Out of the three, I have replayed Arcanum the most. The first time was a very buggy experience, but I pushed on, missing a lot of content I found in later playthroughs. I loved having the different ways of accomplishing things, through magic or tech (or the brute force "idiot" run, which while short, was hilarious). I loved finding new ways to use skills, spells and items. Finding all sorts of odd things off the beaten track. And turning the whole "chosen one" story on it's head. The ending did also genuinely throw me off the first time, finding out I was chasing a Red Herring (again), something that CRPG's don't normally succeed in doing for me.

So, out of the three, I would have to pick Arcanum. It isn't easy, because all three are part of the magic I had finding worthy games after a lot of the 90's were, to me, terrible. But Arcanum was the high point (a clunky highpoint in some ways, with some regression from the slick interfaces that came before) and, unfortunately, also the start point of the "Decline" that was to come about after it's release. Black Isle died, Bioware became Biowhore, and Troika, after releasing two more great but flawed games, fell off a cliff, with Arcanum: Journey to the centre of the Earth never to be seen.
 

Humanophage

Arcane
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
3,676
I'm very into cock and ball torture
In PST, you are on TNO's journey and everything else simply serves as a vehicle for this narrative. As a simple example: How many side quests can you remember from PST if you haven't replayed it recently? I remember enjoying them, but if I was forced to name some at gunpoint, I'd be fucked.
I probably liked P:T even more for showcasing the setting. It is also one of the rare RPGs in an almost entirely urban setting, and an inventive one at that.

With regards to side quests, the division into the main quest and the side quests was less strict in P:T. You don't really separate the main story from the rest, and the reward is often some additional spin on the story. For example, I am not sure if the Siege Tower is an obligatory location. The bit where you acquire Nordom is sort of a side quest, but there is no point in avoiding this since it's a major party member. The fact that those quests come at you in an unexpected fashion rather than "go to place X to advance plot" is to the credit of the game.
 

0sacred

Learned
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
265
Codex Year of the Donut
The RTwP combat plays like shit with harm being broken and the TB combat didn't feel much better. Of course, I will add the caveat that the version of Arcanum I played was not working correctly, which one again circles back to my point that it's broken and bugged.
Harm isn't even broken. It's more of a mem, a bait, don't fall for it and repeat what others say all the time. Clearly you didn't play the game enough for yourself to judge. It's like saying neural overload is broken un UR because you can go through the entire game with it (you can't even do that with harm because it doesn't work vs all enemies and you won't be able to kite everyone in rt either). As the Merchant said, tech problems are on your end. Some people play and enjoy it even w/o patches (mods).

didn't Harm cause your alignment meter to drop? That's a pretty cool way to balance things IMO.
 

Devastator

Learned
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
117
Location
Chaotic Neutral
I voted for Fallout because:
  • It has nice beaches
    jrYMU8O.jpeg
  • You can dress up in robes and imagine to perform rituals on dead aliens
    xKNqkvR.jpg
  • Trolling Butch Harris is fun
    Tk5Qb3v.jpg
 

Beans00

Augur
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
413
Underrail dwarfs FO in terms of the sheer amount of builds you can play


Well you can't play Underrail as a pacifist whereas fallout gives you the option. So... Yeah I guess in terms of ways to kill scorpions Underrail has fallout beat.

You also can't interact with Tchort in any way. Which broke my heart playing it because I believe Tchort was clearly innocent and wronged by the faceless. In fallout you can convince the master to end his plan and destroy himself. He is given depth, you see his motivation and reasons. You are given multiple solutions to deal with him. You can do the underrail thing and kill him. You can convince him or you can set off a non strategic nuclear warhead.

What option does tchort get? Kill him with mind magic? Kill him with a sub machine gun? Kill him with a hammer? Kill him with a knife? Kill him with a shotgun? Kill him with fists? Kill him with chemical pistols? Kill him with energy pistols? Kill him with mechanical pistols? Kill him with assault rifles? Kill him with crossbows?

What vindication did Tchort ever get? He was scientists clearly working for the betterment of mankind before a bunch of violent brutes forced him to mutate. These violent brutes later murder dozens, maybe hundreds of people near CORE city and the railyard and then are painted as hero's. 'They're only mean because tchort aka society made them that way'.

BULLSHIT. The faceless are thugs, and thieves because they choose to be and want to be. Did anyone ever stop and think tchort may need the cube to survive? Did anyone ever notice all the good the institute of tchort did for the underrail? How good their soundtrack was? They gave me fair warning before going to the west wing. They gave me good experience and rewards. They sold me great items at fair prices.

Yet we are told 'these guys who murdered all these people at the rail yard and who attack you in a cave in core city' are good guys, and 'these guys who are nice to you and help you whenever you interact with them are bad'.

Not even going into all the propaganda against the protectorate, who are clearly a justifiable organization with mostly well meaning people. Although anarchists and criminals clearly wont see it that way. I gassed the free drones, deal with it.



I hope in underrail infusion we continue to see the entirety of south underrail choke on their own vomit. They don't deserve Tchort, or Biocorp, or the protectorate and I enjoyed watching them suffer.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Top Bottom