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Online Petition to Include a RTwP Mode in Baldur's Gate 3

Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
4,201
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
Yeah watching all the shuffling with 1 goblin was painful, but sticking 2 systems in 1 game is not a way to go. Larian game with its 3d mechanics and granularity like los measurment needs tb only.

(I also found it kinda painful how you go into UNDERDARK with some low level party by just jumping into it from what literally looks like tutorial areas.)

If you want to speed it up, make a petition about removing retarded prep-animations all characters make all the time like to dash you need to wait until character screams like a maniac and glows in grey light. A simple way to prevent player make silly mistakes could be ability to partially cancel characters last action ie rewind it (movement only.)

Japanese people already solved the issue. In fact they've solved many issues that plague western games, but unfortunately their solutions are sometimes presented in games which have issues on their own.

Just add a button that skips the animation. It works in newer Neptunia games. You hit a button and time skips to the end of the animation. It's a godsend since like many JRPGs the game features overly long special attack animations. It works like a charm. It's much better then your usual turning-up the animation speed because you don't feel that everyone just zips around for no reason. Unlike the "remove animation" toggle it doesn't prevent you from seeing new animations added later in the game. Once you decide that animation bores you, you just hit a button and skip it. If you are in the middle of fighting some trash you can just math button a bit to skip everything.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,243
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Design Real Time well, you don't have to use Pause (unless you consciously are designing a game that perfects RTWP):



(IMO, it's about finding macromanagement methods to coordinate the necessary micromanagement. Squad systems. Etc. ETc. ETc.)


There's a game out that pauses time when you're not moving. I may need to try that one out.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Design Real Time well, you don't have to use Pause (unless you consciously are designing a game that perfects RTWP):



(IMO, it's about finding macromanagement methods to coordinate the necessary micromanagement. Squad systems. Etc. ETc. ETc.)

ugh... they starved to death -- what a rotten way to die
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
Japanese people already solved the issue. In fact they've solved many issues that plague western games.
idk why you specifically pick jrpgs, since wargames had that fixed as well, when you move unit second click skips animation. for example Fantasy Generals 2 does it.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
4,201
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
Sorry for double-posting.
The petition is just dumb. Devs won't add RTwP to the game for a simple reason. They'd need to spend a lot of resources developing system that is likely to suck and that only a fraction of players will use. There is a reason all RPGs are adding TB mode now, the reason is to make them playable on consoles. Pads just can't handle RTwP like you know from BG games.

Also, as in many other treads I see people hating on RTwP because they've seen it in Baldur's Gate and games inspired by it like Pathfinder and POE and decided that it sucks. The issue is not that RTwP is a band system, the problem was that a tabletop system was forced to work in the RTS framework, despite never being designed to do so. In case of POE a new system was created, but with all the quirks of the tabletop DnD.

The correct way to do RTwP BG-style RPG would be to create rules that would suit an RTS game, then add more complicated character creation and abilities. That way instead of having turns that go faster and more chaotic devs could do things that are really interesting and not feasible for a turn-based or tabletop game.
Examples:
-commanding bigger troops. Ordering more than 20 individual units can sometimes get boring in a turn-based game. In an RTS it's not an issue. Just select 30 summoned skeletons and send them to die.
-Having projectiles rely on physics instead of rolls. Instead of rolling dices to hit like it's 1979 devs could make actually make an engine calculate that stuff. I will never forget how outraged I was as a kid when I've seen an arrow slowly going towards one of my characters, selected it to run behind the corner and seen an arrow turn in the air to get him. With a proper system you could actually have your guys take cover to avoid getting burned by a fireball instead of wishing for a good roll on a saving throw
-Have more than two factions taking part in the battle. Remember how frustrating it is in many turn-based games to watch NPCs take place in battle and wait for each and single one of them to finnish their turn? A good example would be Fallout 2, where if you are unlucky to start a battle on a busy street you need to watch every junkie slowly try to get away. You could have party arrive at a besieged city and actually have the fight play-out as players are busy with other thins. Sure theoretically standard DnD/Pathfinder rules could also apply, but I doubt that such mass battle avoid devolving into mess very quickly.
 

Thal

Prophet
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
415
Sorry for double-posting.
The petition is just dumb. Devs won't add RTwP to the game for a simple reason. They'd need to spend a lot of resources developing system that is likely to suck and that only a fraction of players will use. There is a reason all RPGs are adding TB mode now, the reason is to make them playable on consoles. Pads just can't handle RTwP like you know from BG games.

Also, as in many other treads I see people hating on RTwP because they've seen it in Baldur's Gate and games inspired by it like Pathfinder and POE and decided that it sucks. The issue is not that RTwP is a band system, the problem was that a tabletop system was forced to work in the RTS framework, despite never being designed to do so. In case of POE a new system was created, but with all the quirks of the tabletop DnD.

The correct way to do RTwP BG-style RPG would be to create rules that would suit an RTS game, then add more complicated character creation and abilities. That way instead of having turns that go faster and more chaotic devs could do things that are really interesting and not feasible for a turn-based or tabletop game.
Examples:
-commanding bigger troops. Ordering more than 20 individual units can sometimes get boring in a turn-based game. In an RTS it's not an issue. Just select 30 summoned skeletons and send them to die.
-Having projectiles rely on physics instead of rolls. Instead of rolling dices to hit like it's 1979 devs could make actually make an engine calculate that stuff. I will never forget how outraged I was as a kid when I've seen an arrow slowly going towards one of my characters, selected it to run behind the corner and seen an arrow turn in the air to get him. With a proper system you could actually have your guys take cover to avoid getting burned by a fireball instead of wishing for a good roll on a saving throw
-Have more than two factions taking part in the battle. Remember how frustrating it is in many turn-based games to watch NPCs take place in battle and wait for each and single one of them to finnish their turn? A good example would be Fallout 2, where if you are unlucky to start a battle on a busy street you need to watch every junkie slowly try to get away. You could have party arrive at a besieged city and actually have the fight play-out as players are busy with other thins. Sure theoretically standard DnD/Pathfinder rules could also apply, but I doubt that such mass battle avoid devolving into mess very quickly.

I'd argue that this is where PoE and Pathfinder (to a lesser extent) went wrong, but not BGs. I'm replaying Baldur's Gate 1 at the moment and it definitely plays completely differently from PoE, much like an RTS actually. In BG 1 tactics are usually limited to putting your tanks to do the tanking, while your ranged do the killing. Spells (which you don't have many) and quick items along with prebuffing is what you'll usually be considering otherwise. This works pretty well, because the game is balanced this way. Where you put your guy with a large shield matters and buying your first Full Plate Mail feels like an achievement. A single sleep spell can save your ass, especially if previous encounters and waylays have drained your other spells. There are fewer clicks involved with encounters but they are more meaningful. The spiritual sequels on the other hand are too bloated for their own good. I think they're fine, but most of all I realised that I don't like RTwP per se, but rather IE games.

Your idea with taking this further towards RTS is pretty good though. Particularly, because saving throws an can be seen to simulate a variety of actions, like ducking behind a couch to dodge a fireball. No one tries to simulate that, but perhaps they should and add destructible environment to the mix. Fighting an ogre or a giant would have very different feel to it (Would be cool to see a turn-based fantasy crpg try it also. Like Silent Storm).
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,272
Location
Bulgaria
The salt market will crash when this game releases, I can't wait to enjoy it.
The game and the salt.
Can't wait for the delusional fans explaining how this shit is good.:smug:


There is actually 0% chance of BG3 being good,says international experts!

EU moves a motion to limit the distributions of BG3,on the grounds of promoting popamolism and dumbingdown!
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,291
Location
Ingrija
ADHDfags crying to add a realtime option into a turn-based RPG, get snubbed by developers. I feel like 25 years of rape and pillage of RPG genre have been vindicated.

Maybe in 10 years we'll see TESfags pitifully wailing at Bethesda begging to add an optional mode to TES 7 to play with a single character and not with a party of 6?

The salt market will crash when this game releases, I can't wait to enjoy it.
The game and the salt.

Fuck the game, the salt is all we need!
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,272
Location
Bulgaria
Larian knows turn based, it's retarded to force RTWP on them.
Are you a fucking retard? Larian's original games were all RTwP and they did it better than their TB games. Divine Divinity is times better than DOS games. Their TB is really muh at best,tho the worst part is the fucking writing lol.
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
Larian knows turn based, it's retarded to force RTWP on them.
Are you a fucking retard? Larian's original games were all RTwP and they did it better than their TB games. Divine Divinity is times better than DOS games. Their TB is really muh at best,tho the worst part is the fucking writing lol.
They old real time games exist because pubblisher forced them to do like that.

this is why they started to use kicstarter.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
1,468
Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath
Larian knows turn based, it's retarded to force RTWP on them.
Are you a fucking retard? Larian's original games were all RTwP and they did it better than their TB games. Divine Divinity is times better than DOS games. Their TB is really muh at best,tho the worst part is the fucking writing lol.
Divine Divinity isn't RTwP, it is pure real time like Diablo. Divinity 2 isn't RTwP either, it's a third-person popamole action RPG.

Only one Larian game is RTwP -- that's Beyond Divinity. Fittingly enough, that's also their worst game.
 

Gyor

Savant
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
734
I prefer TB, but I signed it, because if they add a RTwP mode, I won't have to hear about RTwP vs TB anymore.
 

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