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X-COM OpenXcom Thread

Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
works for me
all i can say it not every ship can attempt every mission, map might not be suitable for whatever you picked for worm.
report it on discord if you can recreate it (and its a valid mission)
 
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,853,714
Location
Belém do Pará, Império do Brasil
About anti-camping in Piratez:

I think it's worth noting that with the way vision and light in XCE (which pretty much all big mods use), you can see immense chunks of the map, as long as you have enough light. During day you can see practically all the map, especially the more open maps.

Which lends itself to degenerate gameplay where you literally spend 30 turns mole popping safely from afar.

In XCF they seem more ok with it, but they have the Sanity mechanic in many types of map which seems to fulfill a similar function.
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
17,153
Location
Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.


Made this little audio-reading thing a while ago as an experiment/fun-thing-to-do. The story is from the brown little notebook that came with the TFTD box back in the day. That little book was a fantastic addition and really set the theme and atmosphere for the game.

You can find it here. Besides the story of Gaston there is some minor articles and stuff like that. I always thought it made for great world building and yeah, remember to drink your Zippi cola to support your local X-com!

wkelQ9g.png
 

eXalted

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
1,213
XPiratez dishing awesome updates. Ninja enemies are extended - bases, ships, etc.

The latest update from today adds starting location bonuses. More info:

v.M3 28-Nov-2021 The Planet of Rust
- OXCE update to v.7.1.4 20-Oct-2021
- New Enemy Mission: Early Air Banditry version
- New Mission: Precint Under Siege
- New Enemies: Mohawk, Ogre Convict, Highwaymen Scout Quad
- New Enemy Crafts: Ninja Bomber, Thunderbolt
- New Crafts: Incinerator, Raiding Party, Daredevil
- New Craft Weapons: 2x50mm AA, Viper Rockets, Divebombs (IB), Avalanche (IB), Heavy Plasma Charger
- New Armors: Refractor (SEA), UAC Space Suit (SEA), Armored Car *14mm, Polar Outfit, Nun (Peasant)
- New Weapons: Ghetto Gun, Stop Sign, Napalm Nades, Govt Pistol
- New Ammo: Mortar Shells/Acid, Longbow Acid Arrows
- New Trainings: Gun-Kata, Officer (humans)
- New Feature: Spy on Ninjas
- New Feature: Starting bonuses depending on geographical region and contry
- New facility and vessels Pedia backgrounds by OAK Group
- New 3x3 mapblocks for most huge maps by Solarius Scorch
- Multiple bad ending videos (different for each lose condition)
- Gfx improvements by Brain: Manhack, Blue Armor line, Assault Suit, Tornado hand obj.
- Gfx replacement: Smuggler Catgirl (Doll - SmoleVN; corpse inv - Alunvirae; sprite & corpse floor - Osobist)
- Establishing new Hideouts is a bit cheaper now
- Some facilities can now passively detect enemy Hideouts nearby
- Flattened mind control power curve a bit
- Improved abilities of Runt and Wench outfits
- Ninja raid skip/abort penalty reduced
- Less Ninja interceptors, more APCs
- Reduced Ninja interceptor radar ranges
- Ninja base construction (after the first base) is now randomly delayed
- Added global labels (by OAK Group)
- More Music
- More Sounds
- Moar Events
- Moar Loar
- Moar Features
- Boring stuff & other Bullshit
- Lots and lots of minor fixes

https://www.moddb.com/mods/x-piratez/downloads/dioxine-xpiratez-m3-the-planet-of-rust#downloadsform
 
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axx

Savant
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Messages
813
OpenApoc has sporadic github activity, frankly the project stalled some years ago. Here's a quote from the main contributor explaining the situation:
Really, to have a playable OpenApoc, we need ONE THING: AI

That's it. Road vehicles that don't behave appropriately, illegal flyers not spawning, all that is really insignificant, really. It's fluff, it's mostly just ignored or a nuisance (like, you just have to watch those stupid bikes and hovercars maneuvering for five minutes until they finally get shot down so you can continue playing).

It's about core game loop first. When we have core game loop, people can play OpenApoc instead of OG and have full experience they would get from OG in OpenApoc.

And everything except the AI that belongs to the core game loop (funding, proper portal locations) just needs programming hours.

AI, however, is a different case.

We need to either reverse-engineer the OG AI code, to the point where we can understand how it actually works, or we need someone to study the OG AI and understand how it works.

The result would be a document that outlines what do we want to create with the AI. What exactly should it do and how. Basically a programmer's design document, definition of what should be implemented.

And then we can get to implementing it. The framework should be there, I have coded a pretty long-stretching AI system that should allow to implement any additional logic into it. So then it would be implement, and optimize so it works quickly enough (like, it would most likely need to do a lot of tracing shots, where it calculates safe spots to hide behind or escape from, and that could get pretty taxing if not optimized).

Just need someone to really dedicate hours either into reverse-engineering or into playing with the OG under different scenarios and studying how does AI actually behave under different conditions and settings
 

panda

Savant
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
398
What I don't like though is that the game encourages you to rush missions instead of camping, even though your units are still vulnerable to being one-shot if you rush out. Many crafts are designed with an inability to turtle out on purpose, for good and bad, which means that against enemy factions like the Mercenaries, you'll have to go through pain.
Yeah, i'm replaying piratez now and this is such a crap new anti-fun mechanic that i even consider dropping the mod unless there are useful items to restore "freshness" later on. Each mission you are set on a timer before your team of superhumans will magically transform into worthless cripples. Even disregarding gameplay aspects, this is a complete bullshit which goes against entire mod's narrative and lore.

They're there to prevent degenerate camping for multiple turns at a time waiting for the AI to run into your killzone.
So, instead of proper AI dev decided to force an arbitrary meta in-combat stats degradation to force player to run into degenerate camping AI's killzone instead. I... have no words.
Not to mention that overall last thing i need in a singleplayer game is a guy telling me how to play(or not to play) it.

To clarify, i'm not against some "secondary energy" stat simulating long-term weariness, but the implementation where during combat unit takes no actions and still loses that "energy" is beyond retarded.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,547
So, instead of proper AI dev decided to force an arbitrary meta in-combat stats degradation to force player to run into degenerate camping AI's killzone instead. I... have no words.
Not to mention that overall last thing i need in a singleplayer game is a guy telling me how to play(or not to play) it.

To clarify, i'm not against some "secondary energy" stat simulating long-term weariness, but the implementation where during combat unit takes no actions and still loses that "energy" is beyond retarded.
nu-XCOM2 has the same mechanic tied to your Will, which makes it even worse, as it means your ability to resist psionics goes down as the mission progresses.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,201
Haven't touched X-Files and Piratez lately, but besides that mechanic, one that was introduced some time ago is "spotter-shotter" mechanic. That is, certain enemies that spot you can relay your position to the others, which means you can and will be one-shot by random sniper placed somewhere you can't see. Repeatedly.
It's mean to make things "fairer" because your team can do just that, while the enemy wasn't capable of doing so. That's why the OG game had smoke bombs, which of course are nerfed in these two mods, especially Piratez. On the plus side, having Bravery of 80s or so makes you almost immune to the degrading morale thing as your unit won't panic (unless shot or something else that further reduces morale). The Slave Soldiers and some others also don't degrade morale, but they suck by design as they're meant to be squishy humans in a world of supermutants.

It's better to play Piratez on easier difficulty settings and not do ironman to avoid going insane.
 

Endemic

Arcane
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
4,326
Haven't touched X-Files and Piratez lately, but besides that mechanic, one that was introduced some time ago is "spotter-shotter" mechanic. That is, certain enemies that spot you can relay your position to the others, which means you can and will be one-shot by random sniper placed somewhere you can't see. Repeatedly.

It's mean to make things "fairer" because your team can do just that, while the enemy wasn't capable of doing so. That's why the OG game had smoke bombs, which of course are nerfed in these two mods, especially Piratez.

Seems a bit much, combined with the stat nerfs. I'd rather see difficulty bumped by better mission design.
 

Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
what stat nerfs?
smoke or other tools always works well vs some factions and not at all against others.
there isnt any tool that doesnt do shit.
 

Endemic

Arcane
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
4,326

Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
you got plenty freshness for most missions
multi stage missions refresh freshness between maps and iirc he removed or shortened early multi map missions (beach attack etc)

freshness limits psi/voodoo, thats the main purpose. reducing camping is secondary.
if you are having problems start using a b-team or dont take back to back missions with same gals and dont abuse crack or other consumables
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,201
Some missions have "better" design, as in they're quite unique (and not necessarily good), like having your weakest unit types in slave outfits that weakens them further in a rape village of Sectoids IIRC, taking on several armed vehicles, defending yourself against as swarm of Deep Ones, etc. They're all optional, thankfully.

IMO the problem is that the Piratez mod can go on forever, it's better to switch games from time to time to avoid repetition fatigue.
 
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panda

Savant
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
398
you got plenty freshness for most missions
Maybe later, idk, or but certainly not early on. It is enough, of course, to finish any single mission even if you were somewhat slow, but two missions in a row? You can have problems already.
Like, I just finished first mission with my favourite early "armor" of the past - camo paint. I didn't savescum, so it took me 8 turns to kill/capture everyone(10 units total) except last academy drone, and 5 turns(another reason why this system is retarded btw) to find and bring said drone down. Gal had 64 "freshness", camo paint for some reason drains 2 per turn(even if unit won't move), so she left mission with 38, or 59%. If your "freshness" goes below 50% you are fucked.
And next day terror site spawned, which can easily go up to 20 turns. Thus, realistically i can't send this gal to the terror anymore. I now also realistically can't use the armor i like, but forced to use boring ones instead only because they drain 1 freshness per turn.



What else apart from cool armors is on the :whatisfun: list because it became too prohibitive(early game at least)?

and dont abuse crack or other consumables
Consumables? Goodbye X-Grog, I Knew Thee Well.

dont take back to back missions with same gals
Using favorite unit in any mission? Using strongest unit in any mission? Why would anyone do this anyway, kek.

start using a b-team
Having more hands to deal with long-term weariness and constant combats actually makes sense, but I personally always preferred relatively small elite crewteams with only few substitutes, so I'm 50/50 on this one.

psi/voodoo
Not early game related, so no comments here, was it worth it though?

What else...
Peasants/Goblins/Slaves/units with shitty starting stats, who'll lose 50% of freshness in a single mission?
Not that i ever used them, but it is sort of strange to have one part of your system system which prohibits active use of another part.

Crafts with limited capacity? Why would i run Airspeeder now? Only 3 girls potentially will need more(if you are playing carefully) than 2x turns to finish average mission compared to 6, not to mention glamour bonus loss from fast clears.
I like glamour btw, this is encouraging done right - if you want bonus you can try to be fast, if you are slow you lose nothing. It is entirely up to you to decide what do you want: risk/reward or safety, instead of pure risk, essentially for nothing, only to escape arbitrary penalty.

Overall my impression so far: I'm returning to mod 3 years later only to find out that amount of options to have FUN was significantly reduced. That's absurd.
 
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lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,201
And next day terror site spawned, which can easily go up to 20 turns.
The first ones are optional IIRC, thankfully.

Consumables? Goodbye X-Grog, I Knew Thee Well.

It used to be good before it started eating Freshness.
What I'm not sure now is if Morale Degradation is a separate mechanic from Freshness. If it isn't, then you have TWO timers during a mission, plus any turn limit from the mission itself, if available.

Peasants/Goblins/Slaves/units with shitty starting stats, who'll lose 50% of freshness in a single mission?

Weren't these lacking the morale degradation mechanic and/or lose less freshness?

Overall my impression so far: I'm returning to mod 3 years later only to find out that amount of options to have FUN was significantly reduced. That's absurd.

Welcome to insane modding.
XFiles has it better, as it's still an UFO mod, and the Freshness equivalent, Sanity, only applies to certain missions.
 

panda

Savant
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
398
Peasants/Goblins/Slaves/units with shitty starting stats, who'll lose 50% of freshness in a single mission?

Weren't these lacking the morale degradation mechanic and/or lose less freshness?
Idk, as mentioned i've never used those. Would be good design, tbh. Or admittion of mistake?

I never looked once at the Freshness stat during my current playthrough.
Maybe it is better later on, it seems you can farm freshness through achievements. I'm not pretending to know much, just sharing my initial impressions vs earlier version.
But i definitely had girls with <20% freshness, they could not regen 100% TU, could not make aimed shot, lol. It sucked so much, that's why i even bothered posting.
 
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Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
camo paint has 3 extra combat stress (morale drain) which you an offset with protective gear and jewelry (or hold a towel though I wouldnt recommend)
camo paint Freshness
Morale current : -0.03
so it drains faster early on and slows down as morale drops.
warrior Freshness
Morale current : -0.014
Considering warrior as "baseline" early armor, so camo has ~double drain of freshness
Camo morale recovery is
*100 : -0.1
*1 : -3
Freshness normalized : 14
Morale current : -0.1777
Bravery : 0.0888
-1 drain per turn which is for all armors.
-3 combat stress
+%14 of freshness which would lessen as freshness drops, this is essentially a bonus you get thanks to freshness system compared to previous version you played iirc. this is normalized so 1-100 values
- %17 current morale. not normalized so is actually less pronounced until you build her somewhat
+%9 bravery

again you start with low bravery but gets a lot better in time and if you get lucky with (or pay attention to) commendations it ca nget even better

so what is too prohibitive here? are you getting shot too much?
 

panda

Savant
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
398
so what is too prohibitive here?
I did one mission and can't do another because i know "freshness" will magically drop to 0 during it, and unit will be completely useless. That simple.

And i'm not sure why are you posting about morale. Never had much troubles with it. Is it, like lightbane said, somehow tied to freshness?
Edit: Ok, reading your post carefully, it seems it is. But this math is sort of irrevelant, all that matters to me is final result. And the final result was 16 turns total(not tied to single mission) before freshness drop to dangerously low levels. Early on i'd say it is rather prohibitive.
 
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Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
you gain morale from current freshness
you lose freshness according to current morale

like a booster shot applied at start of missions that drop off and if you take too long you end up in a withdrawal. gives you morale, TU, stun recovery
Warriors can't stay in the fight indefinitely, so we can't be too passive. Every turn, they will lose 1 point of Freshness (unless at very low Morale; letting it all out helps), or more, depending on armor. When they are at high Freshness percentage, they will receive bonuses to Morale, Stamina and Stun recovery. As their Freshness drops to half, these bonuses start to turn into maluses. At very low Freshness, our Hands won't regenerate full TUs and might even receive Stun damage. Freshness is replenished every night at the Hideout. The more luxurious it is, the better. The building with the highest Refreshment rate counts.

Well, if you dont like it, then you dont like it. I cna only show the math or explain intention behind it.
having missions back to back is not easy, whats really screwing you there is rng.
 

panda

Savant
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
398
Well, if you dont like it, then you dont like it.
It is more like I don't even understand why one would need such system in first place. You already have morale degradation and individual mission timers. I don't think third limiter is really necessary. Maybe if i started with current version i'd take it as given and it would not bother me, but IMO older version had more freedom, and that's why i dislike this "freshness".
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,810
Yeah, i'm replaying piratez now and this is such a crap new anti-fun mechanic that i even consider dropping the mod unless there are useful items to restore "freshness" later on. Each mission you are set on a timer before your team of superhumans will magically transform into worthless cripples. Even disregarding gameplay aspects, this is a complete bullshit which goes against entire mod's narrative and lore.
live by the weeb, die by the weeb.
 

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