Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

[Perkel]

Most of people don't like playing game. They just want loot.

I think in last interview Chris said that have been doing study on maps creation and so on and the most favorite maps are basically straight line halways with 0 challange.

Either way Hard mode seems like to be pure incline in next patch. Not only they are doing this because they can but they will be using it as test bed for all nerfs, slowing down game etc. Moreover he said that unlike standard/league almost all expansions will be switched off along with their mechanics, almost all crafting will be gone too, checkpoint system gone, flasks to refil will require to talk with NPC in village.

Moreover he said that for now they don't plan fork build so most of changes will be just stat changes but he also said that down the line if hard mode will require fork for their design goals they will do it.

Finally it seems like GGG decided to make 2 games. Game for zoomers which will standard/league and hardmode for codexers him and rest of us who knows what is good.

Can't wait for zoomers to cry that GGG abandoned them when their game will become more and more shit without nerfs.

 

[abija]

Do you seriously believe $$$ (zoomers) won't have priority in decision making?

 

[Perkel]

Do you seriously believe $$$ (zoomers) won't have priority in decision making?

They had their impact in last few years. But it seems that GGG is split between following that and making good game. Otherwise Chris wouldn't get so excited about hard mode.

And it is not like this is their first go at such thing. Chinese client is widely different to normal game. For example they have full respect at level70, autopickup pets and so on.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I can't think of a nerdier game than PoE.

it's not a game, it's a spreadsheet simulator that people sometimes interact with

 

[T. Reich]

Personally, I still consider PoB a more exciting game than PoE itself.

 

[Jaedar]

I think in last interview Chris said that have been doing study on maps creation and so on and the most favorite maps are basically straight line halways with 0 challange.

Or perhaps it could be because the game has a LOT of mechanics where if you're not in combat for 4 to 10 seconds your dps and survivability drop in half, making every map layout more complicated than strand a big extra risk with 0 extra reward.

 

[abija]

Yeah players want simple layout maps because they designed the game around clearing a map per minute and make players feel bad every second loot isn't popping out.

 

[tritosine2k]

Well I'm finished, the arcane surge and support gem cast speed nerfs did it for me, I'm not going to shoehorn my build into this. Especially seeing aurastackers still get huge cast speed effortlessly, and freeze and ES regen too (effortlessly).

Freeze negates cast speed need to begin with but they get both lol. Not about to respec again. IDK what planet is Perkel on, as if Chris Wilson isn't pandering to all kinds of OCD fiends simultaneously lol.

 

[Perkel]

I think in last interview Chris said that have been doing study on maps creation and so on and the most favorite maps are basically straight line halways with 0 challange.

Or perhaps it could be because the game has a LOT of mechanics where if you're not in combat for 4 to 10 seconds your dps and survivability drop in half, making every map layout more complicated than strand a big extra risk with 0 extra reward.

Well yeah that and AOE damage effectively being only way to play.

 

[Absinthe]

Clear speed is also a lot worse if you've got to navigate some maze-like terrain, and the current meta of Path of Exile is that the best defense is a good offense and lots of movement, so a map that lets you zoom through and kill shit at a distance is easily preferred, and it's pretty much never rewarding to take your time, except from a survival perspective depending on the build.

PoE need a lot more fixes tbh.

 

[Alex]

(...snip)
flasks to refil will require to talk with NPC in village.
(snip...)

Why? Is playing without refilling your flasks directly some kind of challenge?

 

[Zeriel]

Clear speed is also a lot worse if you've got to navigate some maze-like terrain, and the current meta of Path of Exile is that the best defense is a good offense and lots of movement, so a map that lets you zoom through and kill shit at a distance is easily preferred, and it's pretty much never rewarding to take your time, except from a survival perspective depending on the build.

PoE need a lot more fixes tbh.

Speed meta is also generally a result of most loot being worthless/trash. This is a problem most modern Diablo clones tend to have, because they subscribe to the "loot fountain" idea for the sheer cool factor, without considering the long term consequences.

PoE goes a step further in that most uniques are terrible except for weird builds, so you don't even care about seeing most uniques drop, and would rather get a high ilvl rare with the right influences.

 

[Perkel]

Imho the problem with loot is foundational problem in 3 different main defence mechanics . Evade, Armor and ES.

In D2 every piece of loot was inportant because each of those you could equip as there was only defence stat. So when you got as Sorc some nice armor with mana you only care if there is enough str on your build.

In poe. Due to its defense system you have effectively 2/3 armor loot worthless because it doesn't cover your main defense stat. So on surface it gives you more combination but in reality it effectively halves it. This goes doubly for uniques. This system limits which uniques are worthwile to player by that 2/3. Even if you found some interestign unique often times you have wrong defense on it. And then you have on top of that gem socket system.

So comparing two systems:

D2 - loot found -> you decide if stats are good
POE - loot found -> you look at sockets -> you look at defense if this fits your character -> you decide if stats are good.

POE2 will remove sockets from that equation but defense system problem still remains.

D2 armor system also had other advantages. For one it worked like Dodge in POE, it wasn't damage mitigation so incoming damage to Paladin or Sorc was the same only difference was how often you will get hit and your lifepool.

Now contrasting it with POE with its damage mitigation monsters do different damage. To hurt those with armor devs have to tune their monster damage and thus you get OHKO for those who can't wear bilion armor. But OHKO come from mostly ele damage ! yes, from monsters with 100% more damage with x element which is based on raw physical damage they deal thus crazy ele damage.

D2 armor system imho is still the best. Only improvement to that would be i think Torchlite STR requirement and no level cap with some STR shuffle to stack harder.

 

[Jaedar]

In poe. Due to its defense system you have effectively 2/3 armor loot worthless because it doesn't cover your main defense stat.

It's often worse than this. If I'm playing an ES build I will not want to sacrifice any ES for some marginal evasion, so it's more like I ignore 8/9ths of all armor that drops. It doesn't hold for all characters, but I'd argue that 2/3 of all armor being worthless is a best case scenario, with 7 or 8 out 9 being more common.

 

[Perkel]

To simplyfy my argument i didn't count mixed sources. In reality it is more like 5/6

 

[Absinthe]

Speed meta is also generally a result of most loot being worthless/trash. This is a problem most modern Diablo clones tend to have, because they subscribe to the "loot fountain" idea for the sheer cool factor, without considering the long term consequences.

PoE goes a step further in that most uniques are terrible except for weird builds, so you don't even care about seeing most uniques drop, and would rather get a high ilvl rare with the right influences.

In maps you can't even loot everything anyway so you have to look for the quality loot or recipe ingredients. That was part of GGG's drive to wreck the magicfind meta of beta PoE (before maps existed as endgame, magicfind was huge), which led to the clearspeed meta.

(...snip)
flasks to refil will require to talk with NPC in village.
(snip...)

Why? Is playing without refilling your flasks directly some kind of challenge?

No, they always wanted to do that. Refilling flasks at NPCs was part of the design vision but in beta as a placeholder it was automatic upon entering town, but they became afraid to change it because players would hate the reduction of convenience. They're just using hard mode to try to change up the game in ways they like that tend to cause tears from the casual crowd. When it comes to flask refilling I'm not sure it'll be appreciated by anyone though. PoE does seem to be trending in the direction that they will basically design for hard mode and treat casual mode as an afterthought because they're tired of casual tears about clear speed or their build guide being worthless or shit being too hard every time they change up the game to try to remedy the lack of challenge since the casuals actually prefer the game playing like a screensaver.

I honestly don't have a lot of hope for hard mode though, but it seems to be a step in the right direction.

 

[Alex]

(...snip)
No, they always wanted to do that. Refilling flasks at NPCs was part of the design vision but in beta as a placeholder it was automatic upon entering town, but they became afraid to change it because players would hate the reduction of convenience. They're just using hard mode to try to change up the game in ways they like that tend to cause tears from the casual crowd. When it comes to flask refilling I'm not sure it'll be appreciated by anyone though. PoE does seem to be trending in the direction that they will basically design for hard mode and treat casual mode as an afterthought because they're tired of casual tears about clear speed or their build guide being worthless or shit being too hard every time they change up the game to try to remedy the lack of challenge since the casuals actually prefer the game playing like a screensaver.

I honestly don't have a lot of hope for hard mode though, but it seems to be a step in the right direction.

But why? Does anyone actually read what the npcs say in this game?

 

[Absinthe]

I have, but the writing is bad. It started off decent and got worse over time, because they stopped having a coherent vision and began loredumping people with all their expanded worldbuilding. Someone forgot to tell them that sometimes less is more.

And they're doing it for immersion reasons and to make NPCs feel like they serve a purpose. It's kind of like how in Diablo there are NPCs in town that would heal you whenever you talk to them, as opposed to autoheal for entering town.

 

[tritosine2k]

Apparently they got incredibly lucky with Tencent and are complacent as a result meanwhile Team Wolcen can't seem to bag that schweet Tencent money despite close likeness. Infer what you will.

 

[abija]

Wolcen being a shit game, borderline scam has something to do with it probably.

 

[ArchAngel]

At least Last Epoch seems to be progressing nicely.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

The plot in this game is just terrible. I don't know that the shit plot takes away from the game, but it certainly doesn't add anything. It just feels like going to unrelated rooms full of unrelated monsters you kill to get stronger and get more stuff.

Even diablo 2, with it's fairly juvenile writing, had a semi interestingish plot.

I don't know why they're fooling with potion refilling. It seems like they're just randomly flailing at this point.

 

[Jaedar]

I don't know that the shit plot takes away from the game, but it certainly doesn't add anything. It just feels like going to unrelated rooms full of unrelated monsters you kill to get stronger and get more stuff.

I think the plot is pretty good and adds a little bit up until the end of act 3. After that its a swift downhill in act 4, followed by a precipitous drop in act 5.

 

[Absinthe]

I don't know that the shit plot takes away from the game, but it certainly doesn't add anything. It just feels like going to unrelated rooms full of unrelated monsters you kill to get stronger and get more stuff.

I think the plot is pretty good and adds a little bit up until the end of act 3. After that its a swift downhill in act 4, followed by a precipitous drop in act 5.

Pretty much.

The original plot of the game is in the name - "Path of Exile." You're an exile and you're struggling to make the most of things, maybe find a way back to Oriath, and meanwhile uncover the mysteries of Wraeclast. Then they started going whole ham with the blackguards and dominus with the addition of act 3 and it started going downhill there since your character stopped being an exile adapting to a harsh and unfamiliar world, making sense of it and gathering more of the world into him or herself as you carve a path through this world but instead became a generic adventurer-hero-savior out to kill bad guys and the bad guys are the people doing oppression and stuff so you have to stop them because apparently that's your thing and also we threw in a random monster (The Beast) to kill and then a lot of gods because gods are cool we figure but the gods are the bad guys because they're oppressing people with their godliness so you gotta kill 'em and now we're just spitballing whatever the fuck the latest villain is. I mean the story went full retard at some point. Act 4 gets credit for Daresso's Dream but overall the story was turning into shit.

For those of you who haven't seen the original character creation scene, here it is:


It's better than the new one.

 

[Perkel]

Yeah storywise it has the same problem as other PoE. They first build up myth and then you kill it leaving nothing unanswered. Imho the worst is act 5 and whole part2. It is just a slog and whole Sin quest chain is just meh.

The most annoying thing is that after act 3/4 basically all unique text and voice acting toward exikes is gone. It feels like you play wooden block than supposed character. If that was ultimate purpose then why no character creator ?