Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[BarbequeMasta]

Yeah makes sense, animal companions are crucial on unfair, thx for explaining.

 

[Desiderius]

As someone who's a total scrub wtih druids can you guys explain to me why one would ever pick Animal companion over Animal domain+boon companion on a pure druid?
The animal domain gives you a underleveled companion that you can fix with a feat right?

Been going back and forth on that very issue with Feysepaker Val.

Main reason is that most of the Animal Domain spells are pretty crappy since the vast majority of dangerous Animals aren't Animals (they're Magical Beasts). There's also a completely useless to Druids Beast Shape spell. Clerics can convert them to Healing spells which aren't very good either while Druids can convert them to Summons, which are better, except Feyspeaker, which doesn't get Spontaneous Summoning.

You're also feat starved in general since you get no bonus feats anywhere, unlike pure casters like Sorc and Wiz.

The other question is how you're spending your action economy in combat. Pure casting is uniquely viable for Druid since you have multiple use per cast spells like Call Lightning and Cave Fangs, and pure casters are strongly incentivized against multi-classing. On the other hand if you're planning to be fighting more in combat you can focus more on using your spells for utility and buffing or spells that don't need to beat saves like Spit Venom and Frigid Touch, in which case you can pick up some levels in another class for more feats or what not. In that case you'd rather save Boon Companion to cover those levels.

 

[Desiderius]

Why Wild Shape?

(1) fun

(2) more attacks earlier, easier to hit with them since not iterative. Pretty much the point of Feyspeaker class since you're 1/2 BAB but have access to Mirror Image/Displacement/Greater Invis that greatly increase your survivability in combat.

(3) unique effects (Wolf free Trip, Shambling Mound Grapple, Smilodon Pounce) Bear Rend is just some damage and evidently Leopard isn't Pouncing.

Once you climb the steep learning curve of what works with Wild Shape and what doesn't it can be good action economy for any 1/2 caster class to use for regular fights.

 

[Shadenuat]

I prefer Blight for shapeshifter. Simply more fun that way. Feyspeaker progression with actual illusion spells is too slow to help early anyway.

Developers again missed opportunity there to allow you to turn into giant insects from Nausicaa or into a swarm ruining my fun.

 

[Desiderius]

I prefer Blight for shapeshifter. Simply more fun that way. Feyspeaker progression with actual illusion spells is too slow to help early anyway.

Developers again missed opportunity there to allow you to turn into giant insects from Nausicaa or into a swarm ruining my fun.

As if Smilodon pet needed the help. You get Image at 6, that's plenty early. Until then you can just cheer on your Smilodon and throw a few Snowballs. Or if you're doing it with Val she can just do her tank/Dazzling Display thing.

 

[Shadenuat]

that's all casualism. and I only play monitor lizards and centipedes.

 

[Desiderius]

that's all casualism

Now you're just trolling.

Lvl 5 Unfair

Centipede would be a good late game choice but last I checked its Vermin Immunities weren't working.

 

[Shadenuat]

because they gave it magical beast subtype not vermin or something like that.

or they just forgot. it's immune to trip though.

 

[Silly Germans]

How do you actually test your builds ? Is there a convenient way to do it ?

 

[NJClaw]

How do you actually test your builds ? Is there a convenient way to do it ?

The dlc dungeon in rogue-like mode: you level up almost too quickly and can try out different party combinations from level 1 to 20 in no time.

 

[Desiderius]

How do you actually test your builds ? Is there a convenient way to do it ?

I keep saves at level-ups during playthroughs. You can load those and respec at the tavern on normal difficulty.

Best way to get a feel for a class/lineup is to play a few levels though. Varnhold DLC is a good opportunity there since it starts on the brink of lvl 6.

 

[Silly Germans]

How exactly does the critical hit mechanic/confirmation roll work ?
Assume i have a threat range of 19-20. I attack with attack bonus 10 an Armor class 40.

Now i roll a 19.
Will this immediately miss or does this attack threaten for a critical hit ?

The other case i am not sure about is what happens if i roll a natural 20. Afaik
it should hit since 20's are always hits( keeping displacement and other stuff out of the discussion).
Now this natural 20 should threaten the target. All possible outcomes for the threatening roll are below armor class 40,
so it should always be a normal hit since the critical threat can't be confirmed. Is this also the case
if the threaten roll is a 20 ? Or does a 20-20 roll always land a critical hit ?

 

[Sweeper]

Will this immediately miss or does this attack threaten for a critical hit ?

If you roll a 19+10 on 40 AC that's a miss. Since you didn't hit you don't get to roll on crit.
The first roll determines whether or not you hit the target. D20 + bonuses - Target AC.
If you hit and the natural roll is within your weapon's threat range it then rolls to confirm the crit. So it's essentially 2 rolls.
Sword Saint automatically confirms crit rolls on lvl 20, so all you need to do is roll within the threat range. SS can also apply keen propirty with their arcane enchantment which lowers the threat range by 3.
Which makes for a disgusting, broken class even without sneak attacks.

The other case i am not sure about is what happens if i roll a natural 20

A natural 20 is an automatic hit, but I still think it rolls for crit based on threat range.

Or does a 20-20 roll always land a critical hit ?

Yup that's always a hit and a crit.

 

[NJClaw]

How exactly does the critical hit mechanic/confirmation roll work ?
Assume i have a threat range of 19-20. I attack with attack bonus 10 an Armor class 40.

Now i roll a 19.
Will this immediately miss or does this attack threaten for a critical hit ?

The other case i am not sure about is what happens if i roll a natural 20. Afaik
it should hit since 20's are always hits( keeping displacement and other stuff out of the discussion).
Now this natural 20 should threaten the target. All possible outcomes for the threatening roll are below armor class 40,
so it should always be a normal hit since the critical threat can't be confirmed. Is this also the case
if the threaten roll is a 20 ? Or does a 20-20 roll always land a critical hit ?

A natural 20 always hits (if we ignore any kind of miss chance) and always confirms the critical threat.
Any other roll needs to beat the Armor Class in order to hit or confirm (even if the roll is a critical threat due to the weapon critical threat range).

 

[Silly Germans]

Thank you, now i can finally do my average damage calculations.

 

[Haplo]

Sword Saint automatically confirms crit rolls on lvl 20, so all you need to do is roll within the threat range. SS can also apply keen propirty with their arcane enchantment which lowers the threat range by 3.
Which makes for a disgusting, broken class even without sneak attacks.

Info about criticals is accurate. About SS/Keen less so.
Yes, a SS can Enchant his weapon with Keen starting at level 5. You can can also find such permanently Keen enchanted weapons out in the wild (mostly simple +1s though). Also Keen doesn't necessarily improve the threat range by 3, it simply doubles the range. So a weapon that naturally only threats crits on 20, with Keen will threat on 19-20.
And it doesn't stack with Improved Critical feats.

Also level 20 SS isn't the only one able to autoconfirm crit threats (but he gets Int bonus to confirm much earlier, which is more practical). It's same for level 20 fighters. Think Lethal Rage Barbarians can autoconfirm too at level 16? Certain buffs also cause auto-confirmations VS certain enemies (Crusaders Edge VS Outsiders, Bless Weapon vs Undead).

On the upside, a SS CAN use his Arcane Pool to increase the crit damage multiplier when scoring crits (as well as maximize weapon damage which can lead to... rather lovely disgusting results indeed)...

 

[NJClaw]

Sweeper Haplo, wait what? This is the feature you are talking about:

At 20th level, a fighter chooses one weapon, such as the longsword, greataxe, or longbow. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.

That "automatically confirm all critical threats" means you don't need to roll to confirm the critical hit, but you still need to hit the target's AC, because:

Any attack roll that doesn’t result in a hit is not a threat

You can't just roll a 19 and ignore the target's AC.

 

[Desiderius]

Sword Saint automatically confirms crit rolls on lvl 20, so all you need to do is roll within the threat range. SS can also apply keen propirty with their arcane enchantment which lowers the threat range by 3.
Which makes for a disgusting, broken class even without sneak attacks.

I have a hard time imagining that ever mattering much.

That would be reason 12 or 13 why the class is broken. Sneaks are generally underpowered in P:K.

If it's something you're worried about, you can just save up all your nat 20s for the hard fights:

 

[Desiderius]

If this situation is coming up a lot for you rather than the mobs, you're doing it wrong.

Seriously, here's lvl 2 Hard:

The options are there to not be a whiffer.

 

[Desiderius]

Thank you, now i can finally do my average damage calculations.

GIGO

 

[Haplo]

Sweeper Haplo, wait what? This is the feature you are talking about:

At 20th level, a fighter chooses one weapon, such as the longsword, greataxe, or longbow. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.

That "automatically confirm all critical threats" means you don't need to roll to confirm the critical hit, but you still need to hit the target's AC, because:

Any attack roll that doesn’t result in a hit is not a threat

You can't just roll a 19 and ignore the target's AC.

I never claimed that. Of course you need to hit in order to crit.

 

[Silly Germans]

It is quite misleading when people say that keen doubles your chance to do a critical hit.
It doesn't even necessarily double your chance to threaten, even that is wrong if not further
quantified since it depends on the relative armor class and attack value. These claims confused
me, since they are often made. Even saying that your chance to crit is 5 % per base is wrong, since
this value also is a function of (armorclass minus attack value), in the worst case you only have a chance to crit with 0.25 %.

It is good that no one here made that mistake.

 

[Desiderius]

It is quite misleading when people say that keen doubles your chance to do a critical hit.
It doesn't even necessarily double your chance to threaten, even that is wrong if not further
quantified since it depends on the relative armor class and attack value. These claims confused
me, since they are often made. Even saying that your chance to crit is 5 % per base is wrong, since
this value also is a function of (armorclass minus attack value), in the worst case you only have a chance to crit with 0.25 %.

It is good that no one here made that mistake.

If you know what keen is that case is moot. It's a decent approximation for those who care enough to ask such questions, with the usual intuitive, not minmaxxing, caveats. If anything it undercounts damage due to Outflank.

 

[apostrophe]

Are there any decent mele orientated neutral/chaotic evil builds for solo that can work on hard difficulty?

 

[Seari]

Oak's Pelt doesn't give nat armor bonus and Tiger's Stripes doesn't give enhancement bonus in smilodon wild shape. Tiger's Stripes only works for the form you get from the item lmao. Rip my Feyspeaker build, shoulda tested it before playing 2 whole chapters, fuck.

edit: Tested Tiger's Stripes with Beast Shape IV with sylvan sorc and it doesn't work either, lame.